TFTD Extender

[Bomb Bloke]

The colony remix is pretty cool. I'm a little worried it might end up trying to spawn the buggy Tasoth Commanders though - but you may've already accounted for it, or it may not even be a problem anyways (it'd take me a while to dig out a Tasoth base to see what happens). This table may also be worth a review if you're not already familiar with the rank exclusions.

 

Speaking of which, normally the Lobsterman Navigators and Commanders in bases would lack weapons (offset by their claw attacks, I guess); kinda feels a little unfair storming in on a trio of unarmed Aquatoids...

 

Looking at the "interception over land" and "too deep" functions, it looks like they don't actually stop those limitations from preventing your craft doing whatever they want to do - they just block the error messages appearing for the user. Any chance of flags to allow interceptions and what-not where ever?

 

Something seems to be up with the disruptor pulse launcher, too. While testing it out during a land battle I found that it's acting more like a directable AP weapon then an HE weapon (ie, it's not leaving its trademark crater). Not entirely sure what combination of settings/scenario is causing that yet, I'll do a bit more testing tomorrow.

 

Edit: Oooh, is that "Stop Deep One acting like a Celatid" tweak new too? I'll have to play with that as well...

[Tycho]

The colony remix is pretty cool. I'm a little worried it might end up trying to spawn the buggy Tasoth Commanders though - but you may've already accounted for it, or it may not even be a problem anyways (it'd take me a while to dig out a Tasoth base to see what happens). This table may also be worth a review if you're not already familiar with the rank exclusions.

 

Speaking of which, normally the Lobsterman Navigators and Commanders in bases would lack weapons (offset by their claw attacks, I guess); kinda feels a little unfair storming in on a trio of unarmed Aquatoids...

I don't know how it would spawn Tasoth in a base. Good idea to check. The alien equipment follows the standard loadout references depending on the date. Aquatoids commanders should have the same loadout as ones in a Battleship.

 

Looking at the "interception over land" and "too deep" functions, it looks like they don't actually stop those limitations from preventing your craft doing whatever they want to do - they just block the error messages appearing for the user. Any chance of flags to allow interceptions and what-not where ever?

It's doable. It's actually easier than blocking the message but allowing pursuit to continue.

 

Something seems to be up with the disruptor pulse launcher, too. While testing it out during a land battle I found that it's acting more like a directable AP weapon then an HE weapon (ie, it's not leaving its trademark crater). Not entirely sure what combination of settings/scenario is causing that yet, I'll do a bit more testing tomorrow.

 

Edit: Oooh, is that "Stop Deep One acting like a Celatid" tweak new too? I'll have to play with that as well...

Please let me know when you identify the cause and I'll look into it. I didn't program on anything that should have prevented explosions.

 

The celatid tweaks were introduced in 1.04

 

Have you played with the "know thy enemy" mod?

[Bomb Bloke]

Aquatoids commanders should have the same loadout as ones in a Battleship.

I'm not so sure about this; the one base I've tested so far was Aquatoids, and the two Commanders and one Navigator that spawned were all unarmed (same as the Lobstermen versions in bases). I'd've expected their Dreadnought counterparts to have weapons.

 

Have you played with the "know thy enemy" mod?

Not yet; will take a bit actual gameplay to determine how it affects, well, gameplay.

 

It's been quite some time since I've actually "played" these games, rather then just tweaking them.

[Tycho]

I'm not so sure about this; the one base I've tested so far was Aquatoids, and the two Commanders and one Navigator that spawned were all unarmed (same as the Lobstermen versions in bases). I'd've expected their Dreadnought counterparts to have weapons.

 

Your right. Can you pull the file from the site and let me tweak it to fix this issue, so I don't have to release a patch the day after the version releases?

[kyrub]

"know thy enemy"

My take

- The general idea is very good, knowing anatomy increases damage dealt.

- However, I dislike that actual damage is capped, because, rationnally, you can hit the alien badly, even by hazard.

- Even more, you should actually aim for the weak anatomic point, to be more effective. Dealing aimed damage with Auto (or Snap) is a mad, counter-intuitive idea.

- So, IMHO: there should be a straight damage bonus for aimed shots, for known enemies (like the damage dealt is 50%-250%). This is a) logical, b) it makes the generally useless Aimed shot worthwile and it gives the game new tactical layer (you may take "finish" shots, that will surely kill something).

[Tycho]

My take

- The general idea is very good, knowing anatomy increases damage dealt.

- However, I dislike that actual damage is capped, because, rationnally, you can hit the alien badly, even by hazard.

- Even more, you should actually aim for the weak anatomic point, to be more effective. Dealing aimed damage with Auto (or Snap) is a mad, counter-intuitive idea.

- So, IMHO: there should be a straight damage bonus for aimed shots, for known enemies (like the damage dealt is 50%-250%). This is a) logical, b) it makes the generally useless Aimed shot worthwile and it gives the game new tactical layer (you may take "finish" shots, that will surely kill something).

 

I'm trying not to diverge far from the original concept. The game still generates the 50-150% damage (assuming that anything over 100% is a critical hit). With the mod, the codes checks to see if the alien's autopsy has been preformed and if so, passes the damage straight to the next stage which applies any damage modifiers for the damage type and then armor. If no autopsy, the game makes a check to see if the shot is lucky enough to hit a vital spot and then passes the full damage to the next stage. If the check fails, the damage is checked against the average damage of the weapon and if higher, sets the damage to the average. Of course, this doesn't apply to HE, stun, or fire.

 

This method shouldn't cause a drastic change to gameplay: Some aliens may take an extra shot to drop. It gives autopsies a more important role in a logical manner rather than mostly background story. (Aside from the one or two needed to unlock certain research opportunities.)

[kyrub]

I'm trying not to diverge far from the original concept. The game still generates the 50-150% damage (assuming that anything over 100% is a critical hit). With the mod, the codes checks to see if the alien's autopsy has been preformed and if so, passes the damage straight to the next stage which applies any damage modifiers for the damage type and then armor. If no autopsy, the game makes a check to see if the shot is lucky enough to hit a vital spot and then passes the full damage to the next stage. If the check fails, the damage is checked against the average damage of the weapon and if higher, sets the damage to the average. Of course, this doesn't apply to HE, stun, or fire.

 

No idea what you are talking about. What stages?

Current code:

Gun damage == 0%-200% of stated damage, submit to modifiers, applied to armor.

HE damage == 50%-150% of stated damage, submit to modifiers, applied to under armor.

 

No critical hits etc. How does your formula enter into it?

[Tycho]

No idea what you are talking about. What stages?

Current code:

Gun damage == 0%-200% of stated damage, submit to modifiers, applied to armor.

HE damage == 50%-150% of stated damage, submit to modifiers, applied to under armor.

 

No critical hits etc. How does your formula enter into it?

There is no difference in the damage range for damage types in TFTD. All use 50-150%. I discovered this when I browsed through the damage sub-routine. I'm sorry about the confusion on the phrases I used: I was speaking on how damage is generated, by phases I meant steps. In the normal routine, the damage of the weapon is taken and passed to the randomizer to get the initial damage for this particular instance. Then, the damage modifier is applied to the value. Finally, the modified value has the amor of the unit deducted and the remainder is added to the field that holds the unit's current damage.

 

The idea of "critical hit" was taken from discussions on UFOpaedia.org: From the feedback, it seemed a lot of people consider that anything over 100% of the stated weapon damage was a "critical hit", which was what I based my damage model upon.

[kyrub]

The idea of "critical hit" was taken from discussions on UFOpaedia.org: From the feedback, it seemed a lot of people consider that anything over 100% of the stated weapon damage was a "critical hit", which was what I based my damage model upon.

The number for weapon is simply average damage. What "a lot of people" say is often wrong. "Critical hit" does not give sense with X-COM, what would be a 5% damage shot? A sub-critical hit? There's no consistency with original X-COM conception; where the damage is simply a range of values.

 

What is worse, your conception does not work. What is Gillmen autopsy for? The "capped" damage will kill it anyway. So you will have the same rate of kill, with or without it. But I rest my cause, tired of argumentation.

[Bomb Bloke]

The terminology is irrelevant - it's simply Tycho's way of describing the systems, which work the same way regardless as to how you label them. In the vanilla build of TFTD, you roll 50-150% of the weapon's rated damage, multiply the result by the damage modifier, then subtract armour.

 

All his tweak does is occasionally reduce the roll to 100% if it were higher. Say for example you shoot a Gillman with a jet harpoon - normally it'll average two to three shots for a soldier, this pushes the odds in favour of three. Against the weaker Aquatoids, this roll would make it quite difficult to deal one-hit kills with harpoons. All comes down to what rank you're fighting with what weapon.

 

Would be nice to know the odds of the damage reduction roll, though.

[kyrub]

What I wanted to suggest (positively), is that Tycho should discuss the mods he plans for the Extender before he puts them in. As he continues TFTDextender as closed private project, the community is forced to simply accept what is put on table, without any say. It leaves me discontent and moaning, but that's his choice.

 

He may end up with long list of unused mods.

[justinlee999]

Hello, may I know where to download this new version, 1.06? The UFOPaedia and strategy core links only have the 1.5 download.

[Tycho]

What I wanted to suggest (positively), is that Tycho should discuss the mods he plans for the Extender before he puts them in. As he continues TFTDextender as closed private project, the community is forced to simply accept what is put on table, without any say. It leaves me discontent and moaning, but that's his choice.

 

He may end up with long list of unused mods.

 

I first mentioned this back in July, https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/topic/9867-tftd-extender/page__st__60#entry115778, and the idea was received well by those who choose to comment on it at the time. It was even copied over and made into one of the first feature requests for the Extender's Discussion page on UFOpaedia. As the idea progress, I always mentioned the changes and received feedback. It has been easier to discuss on UFOpaeia since all the ideas and feedback can be logged in one place, rather than shifting through post after post. I notify people about my pages in UFOpaedia with every post that I make. People who were interested have given me feedback and it has all been positive, so I continued. You weren't around back in July and I can only surmise that you haven't read all the back posts in this topic nor have you read any of the topics in the discussion section of the Extender's UFOpaedia, for this mod to come as a surprise to you. If you did, why wait until now to voice your doubts and concerns?

[Tycho]

Hello, may I know where to download this new version, 1.06? The UFOPaedia and strategy core links only have the 1.5 download.

 

I had them pull 1.06 so that I could fix an issue Bomb_bloke noticed about the commanders of the other races in the colony not having weapons an not having melee attacks to compensate. I'd rather fix this in the full version than release a patch right after it. I came down with a nasty cold which has made focusing on this difficult. I hope to have it out in a few more days.

[justinlee999]

I had them pull 1.06 so that I could fix an issue Bomb_bloke noticed about the commanders of the other races in the colony not having weapons an not having melee attacks to compensate. I'd rather fix this in the full version than release a patch right after it. I came down with a nasty cold which has made focusing on this difficult. I hope to have it out in a few more days.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

Also I've been following TFTD Extender since kyrub did the first build, huge progress was made since then. Thanks to the folks who contributed to this project!

[Tycho]

I just released the new version 1.06. I attached it to my original post: https://www.strategyc...220#entry120132. Thanks to everyone for supporting TFTD Extender!

[justinlee999]

I seem to be getting a patch overlap error:

 

"Trying to patch the same place twice (0x004445ac, 0x004445ac)."

 

Any ideas? I installed this Extender over the older Extender and overwrote everything.

 

EDIT: If you want my .ini file here it is:

https://pastebin.com/XLVTn1Wq

[Tycho]

It's a conflict with the mod "show money" and "clip cursor" being set to two. I'll put it on the list to fix for the next patch.

Thanks for the INI file!

 

update: Fixed the problem, recompiled a new file, and updated the zip in the original link.

[justinlee999]

Wow, fast reply! Good thing I included the .ini files, my bug reporting skills are IMPROVING!

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Also one more question, is there a TFTD equivalent of MOK's clockfix? Time goes SUPER FAST in my TFTD Extender game, and in the original UFO I had to use MOK's fix to slow down time properly. I can't find the proper equivalent for TFTD, however. How do you guys slow down time in the game?

[Tycho]

Wow, fast reply! Good thing I included the .ini files, my bug reporting skills are IMPROVING!

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT: Also one more question, is there a TFTD equivalent of MOK's clockfix? Time goes SUPER FAST in my TFTD Extender game, and in the original UFO I had to use MOK's fix to slow down time properly. I can't find the proper equivalent for TFTD, however. How do you guys slow down time in the game?

 

I found the problem and put a new patch.dll file into the zip and just uploaded it to the site. Try downloading the file again and running it.

 

When you say the clock is running too fast. Do you mean for the game clock to tick at 1 game second to an actual second of real time (or maybe 5 seconds of game time to 1 second of real time)?

[justinlee999]

I'm not really sure what you mean. But my clock runs super fast, when I click on "5 secs", it instead goes to maybe 30 secs per real second. Shouldn't it be 5 secs per real second? The 1 hour option is like 24 hours per 2-3 secs or something like that, and the 1 day option will eat up a month in a matter of a few seconds.

 

Also I am happy to say that your new patcher.dll worked!

[Tycho]

i guess the game has always run fast and I got used to it. LOL. Currently there isn't anything in either Extender to slow it down but I'll see what MOK did for UFO and try to replicate it for EU extender then see about applying it to TFTD.

[justinlee999]

MOK's fix replaces the .exe by the way, so I'm not too sure if a patcher can do this. But thanks for looking into it!

[Bomb Bloke]

Just by way of comparison, when I've got the timer set to advance in five second increments, it'll do so fast enough to go through about three minutes in one real-world second. I find this perfectly acceptable.

 

Mok's patch is good for those who really do have it running just "too fast", but for me it makes things way, way too slow (the original game on my 486 advanced time faster) and takes all the smoothness out of the geoscape.

[Tycho]

Just by way of comparison, when I've got the timer set to advance in five second increments, it'll do so fast enough to go through about three minutes in one real-world second. I find this perfectly acceptable.

 

Mok's patch is good for those who really do have it running just "too fast", but for me it makes things way, way too slow (the original game on my 486 advanced time faster) and takes all the smoothness out of the geoscape.

 

It runs the same for me and always has, so I never really noticed. I was able to reverse-engineer Mok's patch for the Extender and I understand now what you mean and why other people complain about the "stepping" that occurs. After playing with the parameters a little, I got something of a good median between the two: On the '5 sec' setting, the clock runs about 50 game seconds per 1 real second and there isn't a huge amount of jumping until you push the rate up to the '1 hour' time frame. I might try putting code for several small delays into the Geoscape main loop routine and see if that might allow a true '5 sec' = 1 real second with smoother video updates.