Are USO's pressurized or filled with water?

[Ruivoml]

After staring at the windows in the USO's the question came to my mind.. I don't know a lot about deep sea pressure mechanics... But aren't concave, thick windows only necessary when the pressure inside the submarine is different than the pressure on the outside?

 

If yes, then i'm curious as to why the alien subs would have those windows at all, since naturally all aliens can breathe underwater.

[Pete]

Possibly more of a pressure thing since whilst they can breathe underwater the alien city of T'Leth is located at one of the deepest locations on Earth.

 

Something like that anyway

[Bomb Bloke]

Even if the subs are typically filled with water all the time, rapid diving/surfacing wouldn't see that pressure equalising with the surrounding water straight away.

 

The game engine has no way of dealing with underwater/non-underwater tiles in the same map, so with no airlocks, the subs would have to be constantly flooded. Otherwise you'd open the door and the resulting flood would smoosh all the aliens into a corner.

 

There's also aerodynamics... or whatever you'd call the underwater version. Aquatodynamics? We put windows on our cars, despite being able to breath air.

[Ruivoml]

Hydrodynamics i believe.

 

What got me ticked, however, isn't the presence of windows but their shape. Their shape suggests that they have been built to withstand great amounts of pressure from the outside.

 

But then again, its been a long time since i last played TFTD and if i'm not mistaken, their navigation methods involve some sort of force-field around the subs that would make them navigate through the water without disturbing currents? Part of the reason why they can enter and leave the water without making waves. Its possible that this same forcefield would protect the craft from the outside pressure, even if the sub itself is flooded.

[Jman4117]

I'm guessing it's so they can take humans on board and abduct them while keeping an atmosphere in the craft if need be. Otherwise, I'm sure they keep the craft flooded.

[silencer_pl]

They are aliens - they know more stuff than you can imagine and hurt your head

[chiasaur11]

They are aliens - they know more stuff than you can imagine and hurt your head

 

This is why X-Com scientists deserve their absurd salaries. They see those things and go "I can deal with it."

[silencer_pl]

Anything is possible with right materials... Simply we don't have those.

[sp1ke]

I guess in normal operation the preposterous displacer fields make the question of pressure a moot one. If anything I would imagine a USO inside a displacer field is much like operating in vacuum. The port holes I suspect are an emergency system for crashes or other displacer field failures... such as being shot down by pesky humans futilely resisting their inevitable colonisation. As aliens are clearly hard as nails and prosper at any pressure level, the pressure proof portholes are for withstanding rapid pressure changes during emergencies. Probably there are pumps or vents in the USO hull that allow the pressure to equalise. Then the aliens can just waltz out the front door. (Why no hatches on the roof??)

 

Turning to XCOM subs, as they have no airlocks either, we have to assume that they are flooded, even in flight. While this is slightly unlikely for a human undersea vehicle, it certainly has tactical advantages - getting in and out fast and in large numbers would be hugely complicated by an airlock, even by multiple airlocks. Just as well that flying and swimming with a few tons of water on board doesn't affect speed or fuel efficiency at all.

 

Let's face it, it would be a pretty tedious game if X-COM had to exit and enter airlocks all the time. That's probably the best reason.

 

But this makes me think, if Tycho adds a mod for unrestricted 3D movement to TFTDextender, it would be nice to build subs and USOs with exits in the roof.

[Bomb Bloke]

But this makes me think, if Tycho adds a mod for unrestricted 3D movement to TFTDextender, it would be nice to build subs and USOs with exits in the roof.

I gave it a couple of tests, and it looks like that might be somewhat plausible - extra sprites would need to be added to the game's files to deal with the legs of swimming units (yes, "need"), and even then the art glitches out a little bit on-screen, but it seems any of your troops can be made to swim. Not sure about aliens.

[Tsathoggua]

Real world batthyscaphe type submersibles for really REALLY deep water exploration, like the trieste, the one they sent down the mariana ocean trench, which is iirc, about 7 miles down, need to be spherical to withstand the pressures involved, have thick walls, titanium is the usual material, and the windows are toughened plexiglass or possibly glass, not sure if ordinary glass can be used, and they are just a few inch in diameter, whilst being about a foot thick to avoid being crushed.

u might repulse water equal to the mass of the craft, but there will always be far more to rush in and take its place, in the deep ocean that would overwhelm more or less any power supply.

[magic9mushroom]

After staring at the windows in the USO's the question came to my mind.. I don't know a lot about deep sea pressure mechanics... But aren't concave, thick windows only necessary when the pressure inside the submarine is different than the pressure on the outside?

 

If yes, then i'm curious as to why the alien subs would have those windows at all, since naturally all aliens can breathe underwater.

Circular portholes first showed up on ships when they moved from wood to steel frames; metal corrosion is accelerated by the flexing around corners.

 

And while a flooded submarine moving at ordinary speeds wouldn't need strong windows, alien subs move very fast. The water in front of them would function as a hydraulic ram constantly trying to batter in the windows, and the water behind them would cavitate. The way Ion Displacers appear to work would compensate for this to some extent, but it probably isn't perfect.

I guess in normal operation the preposterous displacer fields make the question of pressure a moot one. If anything I would imagine a USO inside a displacer field is much like operating in vacuum. The port holes I suspect are an emergency system for crashes or other displacer field failures... such as being shot down by pesky humans futilely resisting their inevitable colonisation. As aliens are clearly hard as nails and prosper at any pressure level, the pressure proof portholes are for withstanding rapid pressure changes during emergencies. Probably there are pumps or vents in the USO hull that allow the pressure to equalise. Then the aliens can just waltz out the front door. (Why no hatches on the roof??)

 

Turning to XCOM subs, as they have no airlocks either, we have to assume that they are flooded, even in flight. While this is slightly unlikely for a human undersea vehicle, it certainly has tactical advantages - getting in and out fast and in large numbers would be hugely complicated by an airlock, even by multiple airlocks. Just as well that flying and swimming with a few tons of water on board doesn't affect speed or fuel efficiency at all.

 

Let's face it, it would be a pretty tedious game if X-COM had to exit and enter airlocks all the time. That's probably the best reason.

 

But this makes me think, if Tycho adds a mod for unrestricted 3D movement to TFTDextender, it would be nice to build subs and USOs with exits in the roof.

We know the Barracuda has an airlock ("Airlock clear" in the opening cutscene). I suspect that the way the Triton works is something like this:

 

1) Launch from floating base with air inside.

2) ~10 minutes before touchdown, the crew put on their liquid-breathing suits (described in the notebook).

3) When the sub touches down, the whole main compartment floods (slowly).

4) The aquanauts walk out the door.

 

Essentially, the main compartment would be its own airlock.

[Kir'jaeden]

Why do you think the black circles on alien subs are windows? Soldiers can't see through. Aliens can't see through. Alien submarines need no windows. Sense surroundigs? They have magnetic arrays. Sense living things? They have MC technology.

[Tsathoggua]

Actually I believe that those dark, bubble-shaped structures on USOs DO provide some visibility, at least, oddly enough, visibility inwardly.

 

 

I say this because earlier today, X-com received reports of an alien base facility having been located somewhere in the vicinity of the south china sea, and of course, tooled up the men, loaded the triton with soldiers and the coelacanth (gas cannon, I don't use the coelacanth/torpedo launcher, because it only carries a measly 8 rounds or thereabouts.

 

This is a relatively newly started game, and at a stage having JUST encountered a very few lobstermen and a handful of tasoth (at that time in the game, I don't mean in the base itself, I didn't find both on the upper section of course). But taking on the first level of the alien facility, NOBODY had entered the interior of the seabed-section first level of the hive, but on starting to send as many troops as possible to get themselves pressed flat against the walls, ready to attempt breaching the walls with explosives. The weird thing was, one of my men, or possibly the tank/gas cannon spotted a tasoth, on the INSIDE of the base, stood just behind one of those

dark rounded wall sections, and apparently, said tasoth must have been one of their squad leaders, because whilst both the two fireteams and the coelacanth were situated outside, the inside of the base remained dark and out of visibility, but the numerical indicator specifying a hostile sighted to the bottom right of the screen showed 1 bug spotted,clicking this centered the tac screen on the interior of the base, highlighting the tasoth.

 

(The only reason I know it WAS a tasoth and not another species is the squeal it made when the team retreated to gain enough breathing room to unleash a nuclear firestorm of explosives, breaching the base through the south face of the wall north of the triton LZ towards the bottom left of the map, shelling with incendiary and HE gas cannon rounds whilst sending in teams, SWS taking point, gas cannon wielders immediately behind, most other aquanauts packing gauss rifles, sometimes gauss pistols as secondaries, stun rods and pulse grenades, with a handful of dye grenades, a pair of magna-blast packs and a few proximity mines for those times when an entryway or exit left packing a nasty surprise for the next unfortunate slimy little aberration to pop a head round that booby-trapped door with the squads heavy weapons men sat patiently waiting behind the place with grenades primed and torpedo launcher/gas cannon/hydro jet cannons all loaded full of HE and WP rounds.

 

Surprise surprise....critter pops through door, finds the mined entryway goes off in his/her/it's face (assuming it HAS a face mind you), and while its busy floundering around in shock, assuming the first explosion was insufficient to ensure a kill, the teams, supported by the tank, open up, calling down living hell made flesh upon the poor unfortunate bug son of a bitch

 

 

So those things are windows, I think. Its not very common to get a look in, but it happens. I've only had my team spot a bug that way a handful times.

Although the next base and respectably sized subs (larger than, and usually not inclusive of cruiser size, due to the internal structure of the cruisers, perhaps?)

But there can have been no other explanation for locating a bug in a USO or base facility which has only been approached from the outside, and no psykers involved, at least, no human psyker.

[Zombie]

I highly doubt those structures are supposed to be actual windows per se. Much like in UFO: EU, the "windows" in UFO's didn't actually function as such. But sometimes, if you were in a Flying Suit and on a perfect tile, you would be able to spot an alien inside the craft. The reason why is because there is a tiny gap between the top and sides of the UFO allowing visibility (albeit narrowly) inside. Basically, the LOF (Line Of Fire) Templates aren't correct. I suspect this is what happens in TFTD also: the devs used the wrong LOF Template.

 

- Zombie

[magic9mushroom]

I highly doubt those structures are supposed to be actual windows per se. Much like in UFO: EU, the "windows" in UFO's didn't actually function as such. But sometimes, if you were in a Flying Suit and on a perfect tile, you would be able to spot an alien inside the craft. The reason why is because there is a tiny gap between the top and sides of the UFO allowing visibility (albeit narrowly) inside. Basically, the LOF (Line Of Fire) Templates aren't correct. I suspect this is what happens in TFTD also: the devs used the wrong LOF Template.

 

- Zombie

There's also gaps between sides in some cases (the Medium Scout's the one I remember). In some cases you can actually shoot through them. I've killed at least one alien by threading a laser between the sides.

[Tsathoggua]

Haha nice. Bet the little bug bastard didn't see that coming

 

Presumably its only possible with rounds that have very narrow sprites. Or is it more of a 'clipping' thing?

Saying this because it sounds like the phenomenon carries over to TFTD if you can see a contact through the tiny gap in the 'windows', but of course, no laser weapons, and the sprite for the gauss rounds, at least from the pistol and rifle is shorter and quite a lot WIDER than the really narrow, elongated laser beam sprite.

 

Maybe a jet harpoon or dart pistol might be able to do it. But seeing as how bases are usually crawling with tasoth...well would you fancy taking on one a tasoth with bugger all but a dart pistol? Definitely not going to kill something capable of routinely shrugging off a sonic cannon blast, or even on occasion, a direct hit from a disruptor pulse round, whilst stuck in a bug infested bathyal hell hole? rather you than me!

 

Never tried slotting a bug through a window with a carefully aimed sonic/gauss round, my usualy tactic is just to slap the critter stupid enough to stand next to a wall with no gap between it and whats coming, with a disruptor pulse round aimed to the outside of the wall, right next to the bug. Often enough it either does a respectable amount of damage, or kills the alien outright, depending whats there and how tough it is, how much damage taken from the shell etc.

And it if doesn't, its not wasted because now you have a dirty great hole in which to pour in troops or more heavy artillery. A couple of blind shots, programmed

to follow the path of the long 'arm' sections can be handy, without opening up the doors, to catch anything hiding out in there near the external door ends without having to risk reaction fire if its a sonic weapon or stunner being carried by a critter hiding there. Cowardly, to shoot them in the back without ever seeing them alive?

 

Sure, but it works, and efficiently at that!

 

Although in my relatively newish game, I'm currently getting paid back

Lobsterman and bio-drone terror site, armed with nothing but a gas cannon, gauss rifles+1 gauss pistol, pulse grenades and a coelacanth. Got some plastic aqua armor at least, and some thermal tazers.

 

Something tells me this is going to get very ugly, very quickly. If its anything but a bloodbath I'll be surprised.

Chances are its going to turn into a game of sonic grenades, stealth and thermal tazer whack-a-mole, using the tank for scouting.

Thank CHRIST its not fully dark.

 

And that whilst I could bring none with me, because theres no ammo researched yet (on it now) the team can at least use sonic pistols. if captured from a dead or KO enemy. The problem is creating those in the first place. Lobstermen are resistant to gauss and HE aren't they? at least they are vulnerable to stunning weapons. Haven't got any drills yet, haven't SEEN a calcinite yet. But the problem is reaction fire from those damnable lobsters unless hitting the area close to them with HE fire from the gas cannon.