A Guest's Remarks

[Alienated]

Hello UFOPaedia contributors and Strategy Core forum members!

 

I will state my thoughts about the page, mainly EU and TFTD related, in this thread.

 

First, a question: what is alien re-animation zone found in a very large USO?

[Bomb Bloke]

I would assume they're for use with the cyrogenic units - they'd thaw out the frozen aliens in preparation for service.

[Alienated]

Yes, the re-animation zone can be that. I meant with the question that wasn't it supposed to be a researchable artefact? Has somebody found reference in the data files? I can imagine (though not probably) that it can't be researched by a bug. I saw an N/A item in the research time table. Can it be that?

[The Veteran]

I believe there is a researchable item for it but it's not present on any maps so it's impossible to ever recover one for research. If you edit the map file to include one of them then you can carry out the research I think but there is no text or image and so on for it so either you get no result when it's done or it is simply resellable only and not researchable... In either case they sell for $100 if memory serves

[Alienated]

but there is no text or image

Actually that was what I was looking for, an actual UFOpaedia entry. Thanks.

[Bomb Bloke]

Re-animation zone units are recoverable during normal game play, and so should presumably exist as tiles in-game. You just can't research them.

 

Though come to think of it, they aren't documented as a tile type, so maybe you're just handed them at the end of some missions. Dunno. They're probably TFTD's tile 11, which is currently marked down as being the examination room (which I'm pretty sure that game doesn't have!).

 

EU has Alien Reproduction and UFO Construction modules which certainly are not recoverable during normal gameplay. There's a UFOpedia image for the reproduction units, though.

[Alienated]

Now your post is extremely interesting, Bomb Bloke. Isn't there Examination Room in TFTD? It is supposed to be the part of the Hunter alien sub. I also saw a UFOpaedia Examination Room entry posted on the ufopeadia.org. I have an old save game but there isn't the entry maybe because I encountered the Hunter very late and I couldn't research its examination room after having dismantled the laboratories. (I need not to mention that I locked away my research path in my first walkthrough just like the majority of gamers.) By the way, I have no Examination Room item in the UFO recovery list (I log some things when I play), that may be because the late encounter and I put it in the place of other item, but of course it may be because there was no Examination Room among the recovered items as you stated. I played TFTD several years ago and I can't remember.

 

Another odd thing is that I tend to lose my Supply Ship entry from UFOpaedia in EU. I can't tell what causes it.

 

I have a lot more to say but now Pete is figuring out why I can't post larger texts.

[Bomb Bloke]

TFTD does have a UFOpedia wiki entry for examination rooms, but to the best of my knowledge you'll never encounter them in the actual game - you may see the tiles pictured, but they're not set as "examination" modules. The blue thing in the article seems to be flagged as an Implanter, for example.

 

I sat down and checked, and what MapView flags as Examination Room modules are indeed Re-animation Zone modules. So I've made a wiki entry for those. It's very much a stub, but I honestly couldn't think of anything else to say about them...

 

Tomorrow I might verify each of the other tile types.

[Alienated]

These re-animation zones look great. It's a shame they were left out. I thought there was a place in the Dreadnought where you could wake up faint aliens/operatives or even dead ones. Now it's clear to me I've never seen such tiles, and examination room tiles neither.

[Bomb Bloke]

The re-animation zone tiles weren't left out, we just didn't have them documented properly (hence why you can recover them - they are indeed there for the taking!).

 

Daishiva's MapView is excellent for sifting through maps, assuming you haven't already got it. Much of the wiki's documentation re tile data is based on what that program's shown us, however, it does have some bugs and inaccuracies (to present one now-obvious example, when you bring up MCD data for re-animation zone tiles, it calls them examination room tiles).

[Alienated]

Can somebody tell me why I can't post large texts (about 20k) on this subforum (UFOPaedia.org)? Has this got a unique post-size setting? I tried to talk this over with Pete but he's busy with something else or he thinks I am just lame. I really can't post here what I want, still I could post the text on the TFTD forum for example if I wanted. There is two solutions: (1) I post it elsewhere and give a link in this thread; (2) an admin checks and sets the post-size here. And there is a third one: I post it in small parts but I would hate that because it might look lame.

[Bomb Bloke]

Would need more information to provide an answer; eg, what happens when you try?! I'm not aware of any postsize limits built into the boards...

 

In any case, I suspect the path of least resistance here would be to PasteBin it.

[Alienated]

I get this message: "The page you are trying to access does not exist. If you believe you are receiving this message in error, please contact us." I didn't try each and every forum on Strategy Core, but on the TFTD forum I don't get this message. For example I attempt to post another large one on the EU forum. I send you the 20k post via PM, if nowhere else, you can read it at least.

 

Edit: I posted a 16k post on the EU forum. However, I tried to post that here (preview post) and it seems I could post that here whereas I don't expect that. Maybe there is an unseen character in the 20k text that is somehow illegal on this forum (UFOPaedia.org).

[Bomb Bloke]

Your post...

 

-----------------------

 

First I need to point out that many X-COM fans wish a lot of things that could greatly change the game, so these changes might result an entirely different game. In that case go ahead and make different games. I too will propose some revolutionary changes here, so you may as well ignore them if you find that they leave the EU and TFTD feeling behind.

 

 

[Bomb Bloke]

[NKF]

Reminds me of the time I used to regularly write 3-pager replies... given up on that since it started to confused even me! You could have just broken up submit several smaller posts, which would be easier for readers to digest and respond to as well. The forum software might not like handling large chunks of data.

 

By the way, if you think there are any mistakes in the text of the articles on the Ufopaedia.org itself, you can always use the talk pages to alert the authors about them. The wiki's grown so large that most of us can't keep track of everything that needs tending to, so questions on the talk pages help a lot in solidifying and improving the information on the wiki.

 

Some of the text you've picked up on are bits of old text that probably need to be corrected or clarified. The early days of the wiki was an age when authors were more concerned about filling the page rather than the accuracy of the content. And, not to point fingers (since I might be pointing at myself), some had strong ideas about what should or should not be on the pages.

 

- NKF

[Sunflash]

[NKF]

Sniping in general is cheating in real life - the only difference is that this game doesn't have binoculars or long range scopes. Had they been in there then we wouldn't need a spotter to do this for us. Saying you can only fire when standing in the enemy's firing range is almost like enforcing a game of Russian Roulette, you're just cutting out the stand back-to-back, walk away and count to 10 part.

 

Generally there are lots of things the AI cannot do that the player side can, but then there are also luxuries that only the AI get that the player doesn't have. It evens out in time. Our main advantage is that we can use our brains to use the system better than the AI.

 

- NKF

[Alienated]

I got the same error when using "fast reply", though "add reply" was able to handle it.

I think I tried both. But it is posted at last.

 

The downside to this would be that the aliens would logically know the location of your base once it started shooting at random craft in the area.

Maybe they have no time to send an SOS as their craft gets destroyed in the air. But X-COM may expect a retaliation mission generated after that.

 

In theory, this gravity field could be extended to the air around the craft, shaping it to a point and effectively making the craft more aerodynamic.

Yes indeed, the UFO can get a shape as streamlined as the tits of a movie star, still there is a huge mass of air to move. Even air has a critical inertia. I wouldn't question the superior speed of a battleship and a terror ship (both have four engines) in space. But that wasn't my point. Can you see some gameplay improvement in a strategic sense by changing the speed of crafts? Or is the original set perfect in your opinion?

 

That is... a very good idea!

What's the difference in "That is a very good idea." and "That is... a very good idea!"? If the latter means irony, then I need a more detailed and reasoned comment here. If the two sentences are the same in this case, then I need a little clearer language. Extra punctuations and winks may mean various things. I think the "engineered" craft repair could give more strategy to the game, and it could also eliminate the funny thing that an Avenger is built from scratch (by sufficient engineers) faster than repaired. If this is really a very good idea as you stated, then I am not alone with that and I recommend somebody to include it to the wish list of the wiki page. I prefer comments like "I modified the wiki page according to your remark" to comments like "That's a very good idea/point! Thank you very much." I started this topic to make the already good wiki page a better one. I recommend things because I can't modify the wiki pages by myself. If I could, then I would have already. My editor skills and time aren't sufficient to make wiki page entries, as you can see I can hardly post on simple forums (actually Bomb Bloke posted it). I am happy if you, contributors, improve the wiki page because of my due remarks. I don't need praise and courtesy. Treat my comments duly, and the result of that is my own business, you don't have to worry about that. If I post a very good idea and you still won't exploit it for the wikipage, then it is the loss of you and the wiki.

 

Well, the wish list isn't so important yet, but who knows? What if the source code just falls in our hands out of the blue and we have an opportunity to make a classic game more (or most) classic? What if game designers read the wish list on the wikipage and redo X-COM? (The latter one is improbable by my experience because game designers aren't financially interested in making very good games.)

 

The TU cost involved in changing weapons so often would make this prohibitive.

The rocket launcher has 1 "rounds-clip", the heavy cannon has six rounds. You can theoretically kill three aliens by a 3-shot laser pistol, therefore a crew of 14 can kill 14x3=42 aliens. You don't have to change weapons, you just shouldn't fire away in the dark. As I stated, laser weapons should get the best firing accuracy.

 

This function is in TFTD, and Seb's UFO Extender can add it to the CE version of the original game (stand next to door, face it, right click on it).

This is also in the PSX version: you press the O button and the door opens for a cost of 8 TU. If you open the door by walking, it also costs 8 TU. If it is UFO entrances, the cost of walking through is always 8 TU no matter open or closed. What I need is the open/close movement for 4 TU. Can you close a door in the mentioned games? Has the original X-COM got animation of a closing door? Just for the record, there is two types of door (I mean the machine doors) sound, and the game uses them randomly. I would expect one sound for open and the other for close. Wasn't it something they bungled again? If it was, then this shouldn't go in the wish list as it is a bug. Fixing bugs is a must (not in the current state of software industry of course).

 

Aliens can already be set alight, though the damage taken is not variable, to memory.

"Burn to death" means decent fire damage. The UFOpaedia (reaper autopsy) says the reaper is vulnerable to fire. The fire went out before it could die. Even standard rifle is faster than that.

 

But, face it - it feels awesome every time you get to fire one.

I agree, however the visual pleasure of the first few blasts in the entire X-COM gaming is very expensive in the sense of gameplay. And it isn't so awesome when you most carefully advance in an alien base and your squad suddenly just gets roasted and you ask: what have I done wrong? The answer is: you shouldn't have enter this mission at all. Not everybody is a bomb bloke. And what do you say to my modified blaster bomb launch? Shouldn't a blaster bomb be shot by normal weapons?

 

This is a bit complex.

I am fully convinced of that by now. So the best solution of that is what I said: "And it could also be fine if I could just sell a live alien from the containment as corpse and live aliens would score the same as dead." The "Aliens killed" item should be "Aliens eliminated". I must add that fainted aliens should reduce their morale, and stunned civilians should count as dead if you abort a terror mission.

 

Correct or not, this seems to be their official name in Apocalypse.

Apocalypse has gotta be a funny game, all right.

 

Er, I suspect the aliens do do that. Not so much in EU, if at all, but it's not uncommon to see aliens lining up just outside your LOS in TFTD.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I meant the scout/sniper cheat is when you spot an alien by somebody and another soldier shoots at the alien from out of sight (farther than 20 tiles). Except for blaster bombs and the stray shots of berserker aliens, they never shoot you from out of sight. And I bet the game designers would have eliminated this glitch from the game if they had discovered it.

 

Nothing happens. The game just keeps on generating more artefact missions.

Now comes the next question: then why does the UFOpaedia say the twelve synomium devices should be destroyed at all costs? It is sad that everybody knows the answer. Well, we could include to the wish list: destroy the 12 synomium devices and you beat the game without researching T'leth and the Leviathan which doesn't sound silly at all.

 

All of them, I think?

"The act of destroying the Synonium Device alone is worth 350 victory points." This is 750 in the PSX version.

 

"Successful destruction of the Synomium Device 750

Landing at the mission, but failing to destroy the Synomium Device -750

Ignoring the mission site -2000" Now which statement is true?

I meant the two quoted statements altogether. Don't you see that something is wrong with them anyway? Do I get 350 points for the act of destroying the synomium device and 750 points for the destruction of the synomium device, therefore 1100 points? That is possible without any sarcasm because the silly aliens tend to blow themselves up. It has not yet happened to me on artefact sites but it has happened on alien base missions of EU that the high brass in the command center decided upon suicide and demolition by blaster bomb instead of a fight. But frankly, I don't believe the game discriminates who destroys the device. I guess the 350 is misinformation.

 

I've no idea what caused this to happen.

Well, then we have to wait until somebody discovers it by accident. This is important because not little depends on that. You get 16 ion beam accelerators and 490 aqua plastics, a huge difference in money and victory points. When I play TFTD again, I will certainly try different numbers in crew. If the 12 or 13-soldier crew can recover the whole site and the 14-crew (typical for Triton) can't, then it is worth mentioning on the wiki page.

 

The problem here is that if a satellites are in play, then you should be able to detect airborne subs most anywhere.

I don't know whether the Google Earth operates by geostationary satellites, but the meteorologic satellites and some spy satellites are typically geostationary ones.

 

The AI routines take a moment or two to initialise, and take pretty much the same amount of time to process an alien regardless of whether it decides to move.

Come on! I don't think a game that has the player gaze at a hidden movement screen for at least thirty minutes meets the policy of the SCEE. You've probably never played a TFTD base defense mission on PSX. The fewer the aliens get, the more time the A.I. "needs" to calculate alien movement. How come. This is certainly a mayor bug, just wait 30 minutes between every turn! And floating bases can get too big to find an alien survivor in a few turns. First I loved TFTD base defenses because the aliens don't have DPL but I began to hate them.

 

But I have an idea. I suspect the program runs a delay procedure so the player could not estimate the alien's numbers and actions by the shortness or longness of the hidden movement. So the delay procedure suspends the hidden movement for a certain time if the aliens move little. The problem may be that the coders gave a wrong delay value. Maybe it was supposed to be three or four seconds and now it is thirty or fourty minutes.

 

 

To NKF: as I said, I can't/won't post on the wiki pages right now because my on-line time is restricted. And a wikipage is not something where I would just post and overwrite things in a hurry. And I think it is pointless to alert the authors about mistakes. The alert process and the correction process take almost the same effort and time. If I were a contributor of the wiki page, I would have just replaced the X-COM agents on battlescape to X-COM soldiers for example on the EU and TFTD pages. You can't do this on GameFAQs for example, there are many lame guides and their authors have already forgotten about them or just give bleep. Some of them even take offense if you e-mail and correct them and their FAQs remain all the more unrevised.

 

I still wait for more comments for the "20k post". And here is another TFTD bug: I discovered that some scales on the globe near Antarctica is called North Atlantic instead of South Atlantic or Antarctic and USOs on North Atlantic missions as well target waypoints there. This bug can be corrected (patched) easily as it is data error. Of course you can't do anything with the PSX version. I would like to have this bug confirmed by non-PSX users. Start a new game and keep building and cancelling bases on that area and identify the wrong scales.

 

Look at it this way: In real life, most of these maps you would actually be able to see from one end to the other(sans obstructions) without much of a problem(not so much in the dark, but hey, night vision).

That's the point. You can't see farther than 20 tiles. This simulates huge areas. You can't see farther than a few kilometres because of the curve of Earth. You can't shoot normal firearms kilometres away, and the curve also excludes laser weapons.

 

I always pictured it as some sucker running on ahead of the crackshots and 'calling shots', as it were. "Hey Jim, got a Floater peeking out the second story window of that farmhouse, right-side." *CRACK* "Excellent shot."

That is called artillery.

[Sunflash]

*SNIP*

 

That's the point. You can't see farther than 20 tiles. This simulates huge areas. You can't see farther than a few kilometres because of the curve of Earth. You can't shoot normal firearms kilometres away, and the curve also excludes laser weapons.

 

If you have a farmstead design that requires you to walk a few kilometres from your house to your barn, you need to go visit an actual farmstead.

 

That is called artillery.

 

No, Artillery would be destroying the house itself (read: blaster bomb?), not radioing back to someone with a better angle of attack that "EY YOU CAN TOTALLY MAKE THIS SHOT JIM".

 

Just because YOU can't work as a sniper-scout team with a friend in secanrio paintball, doesn't it's cheating...

[Alienated]

If you have a farmstead design that requires you to walk a few kilometres from your house to your barn, you need to go visit an actual farmstead.

I didn't say the simulation in the battlescape is excellent.

 

Just because YOU can't work as a sniper-scout team with a friend in secanrio paintball, doesn't it's cheating...

Something a sniper can't see he can't aim as well. If you play this: your shooter stand at a door in a room, the scout is outside and looking in the other room through a window and spots an alien just right the other side of the door. The shooter does an auto-shot, first shot destroys the door, the second and third hits the alien. Now this is a shooter/scout tactics because if 2nd and 3rd shot misses or can't send the alien to the floor, the alien can return fire.

 

No need to explain this further, you should have realised by your own that you've been cheating all along, I suppose by the way you insist that you have not ever tried to play X-COM as it was designed to be played. The reactions-time units thing (that the target can return fire) is the main theme of this turn based game. I didn't say "don't promote cheating on the wikipages," I said "don't call a cheat tactics on the wikipages." I bet everybody who can't beat the game the other way will insist to take the scout-sniper cheat for a superior tactics.

 

By the way, has anybody updated the wikipages by my remarks or is it planning to do that?

[Alienated]

To the wish list:

 

 

[Alienated]

I have some remarks again.

 

 

[kyrub]

[chiasaur11]

I'm still amazed at the obviously kilometers thing. I mean, you can walk from one side of the battlefield to the other in a reasonable time period, but it's so huge you can't shoot from one end to the other due to the curviture of the Earth? Man, X-Com wind sprints must be hell.

 

Also, did some reading up on guided missiles when considering the bebop (as I will continue to refer to Blaster Bombs until it catches on or I die. Shut up and give me my mad dream.)

 

Apparently, first generation Soviet wire guided missiles could go faster than 200 mph once they got up to speed, and that was slow enough to require revisions. Aliens having a bomb that has to walk over slower than a sprinter seems a bit...

 

incompetent of them considering what current guided missiles can do. Just thinking.