Subtle differences with XCOM 1?

[Slythe]

Well I've been playing XCOM 1 a lot lately and just completed a game and now I'm a bit burnt out on it, so I'm moving on to TFTD. It's been so long since I've played this game I don't remember much about it. I recall that both games are almost identical in their structure, but I'd like to know if there are any subtle differences I should prepare for, particularly regarding strategy. I've already read about things like the obvious increased difficulty compared to XCOM 1, the various research tree 'glitches', the fact that hydro-jet cannons don't work on land, etc. I guess I should just throw out several random questions...

 

- Are all the alien subs comparable to the ufos in XCOM 1, such that I can assume that my barracudas with DUPs can handle all the smaller subs, and those with the equivalent of plasma cannons can handle anything except the very large one ?

 

- In XCOM 1 I'd go for plasma cannons exclusively for all my interception craft since they were by far the superior weapons. I'd skip laser cannons and never wasted resources on fusion launchers. Is it the same in TFTD, so that after I research any sonic rifle or heavy sonics (I forget the exact names) I can then research sonic cannons (?) for my interception craft ?

 

- Should I bother laying out my bases in a defensive manner like in XCOM 1 ? I thought I read in another thread that in TFTD the aliens can start anywhere...which really sucks.

[Privateer]

I'm not the one to talk on this, but I'll tell you what I figured out during what little gaming I've done with TFTD.

 

Subs are not quite the same. First of all, a lot of alien subs now move slower than even your barracudas, which allows you to catch up to them, while in UFODef the interceptors couldn't catch up with anything unless it slowed down. It seems to me barracudas have shorter range than interceptors. I don't remember my interceptors ever running out of fuel before reaching the objective, except when the objective laned or ran away, while barracudas constantly do.

 

Also, even medium alien subs now fire back at you, while it was almost impossible to lose an Avalanche interceptor to anything, but a battleship in UFODef.

[Slythe]

Another question I have - are dye grenades as useful as smoke grenades were in XCOM 1, like for covering the LZ ?

 

Some things I've noticed - I couldn't destroy an armed proximity grenade after having thrown it outside the doors of a sub in hopes aliens would come out. They didn't. I waited 200 turns and nothing. I fired gas cannon shells, torpedos, threw other grenades, nothing would destroy that armed proximity grenade. Very annoying. I basically had to sacrifice an aquanaut and trigger it. Also, when I fired a gas cannon HE at that prox nade I missed once and hit the doors of the alien sub. To my surprise the doors were destroyed. You could never do that in the first XCOM.

 

In my game I just reached Jan 31 and got a port attack, at night. I'm wondering if I should just ignore it (land then take off right away) and take the score penalty because I have a feeling I'll get slaughtered.

[Rattler]

The subs in TFTD are alot weaker then the ufos in the first one. In the first one a blaster bomb would only blow up 1 or 2 holes in a craft. In TFTD the equivlent weapon disruptor pulse launcher will blow up a 4 space hole in a wall.......probably more I tend to go through the roof where it blows a 3by3 hole at contact with random holes appearing else where on the roof.

 

In the first one you landing crafts(Skyrangers, etc) where indistructable, in TFTD I've had my Triton systematically blown up by numerous sonic pulsers and sonic cannon shots. My men got pinned down in the triton at terror site

[Hobbes]

- Are all the alien subs comparable to the ufos in XCOM 1, such that I can assume that my barracudas with DUPs can handle all the smaller subs, and those with the equivalent of plasma cannons can handle anything except the very large one ?

I've done a post a while ago concerning the differences between both games concerning interceptions. I'll just post it here:

 

1) It is possible to take down Terror Ships with 3 Interceptors armed with Avalanche missiles before you get the plasma beams. However don't forget to only use the careful attack: if your fighters try to move in and use the Stingrays they will get squashed. However, on TFTD the range of the Battleship (the equivalent to the Terror Ship) will allow it to fire back at your Barracudas when engage it with DUP torpedos.

 

2) The same applies to trying to taking down Supply Ships with a Interceptor loaded with Avalanches/Stingrays. While on UFO the fighter could engage the craft without being retaliated, on TFTD the range of the Supply Cruiser's weapon makes it a hazardous business to attack the USO with Ajax missiles. Two shots can bring a Barracuda down.

 

3) Overall Battleships on TFTD are far more of a nuisance than the Terror Ships were on UFO. Amongst the USOs they carry the weapon with the greatest power (even more powerful than the one on the Dreadnaught) but fortunately their range is smaller than the Sonic Oscillators.

 

4) Mantas can run faster that the Dreadnaughts. On UFO the Firestorms can't fly faster than a Battleships. Comparing both games the speed of X-COM craft on TFTD is slightly bigger than UFO while the alien's USOs go slower than the UFOs. As a result your Barracudas are faster than the Survey Ships while the Interceptors can be outrun by the Small Scouts. The Hammerheads are also much faster than the Lightnings. And finally the range of X-COM's subs is smaller than in UFO.

[Privateer]

As for the port attack at night, it depends on the difficulty setting and your skill. I'm not very experienced, but even I can deal with a port attack by Gillmen or Aquanoids using only the usual Earth-built weapons without reloading (much:)). I find flares very effective at night. I use them to create a couple of lit areas around the LZ, so that anyone who approaches is usually spotted by my troops, who are holding the perimeter around the Triton, before he sees them and attacks. This gives me the opportunity to attack them first, which is usually enough to kill them. I also try not to engage with direct fire if possible. When one of the perimeter guards notices an enemy, I have someone else step out of the Triton and toss a grenade or two at the target. I think it doesn't give away my guards' positions as much. Many of the aliens, who started off in buildings and/or fenced-in areas never seem to want to come out, which is wonderful because I don't have to deal with them initially and later I can spot them with my tank or scouts and safely take them out by massive concentration of fire.

[NKF]

Land missions do seem to make explosives effect weapons a tad more powerful. Phosphor shells in particular are extra effective on land. The flames last much longer. Underwater, the phosphor flames that stick to the ground last only half as long as they do on land. They're still useful for safely killing zombies without hatching the tentaculat.

 

Your troop transport subs are indestructable underwater, but on land a sonic pulser can easily blast away a good size chunk of the ship. Don't worry, the damages are purely cosmetic, and you can easily fly home with nothing but the floor and roof. No, the ship won't have to go in for repairs.

 

As for strategy, the ability to open doors and the fact that all your subs have doors offer a whole lot more to your possible strategies. You can now choose to hang back inside the submarine and just shoot at any aliens that pass close enough. This takes a while, and you might lose a few civilians (for terror missions) but its an excellent way of ensuring a clean LZ.

 

The alien AI has been modified slightly, and you'll find a lot more aliens that just stand around and do nothing until you approach them -- particularly the ones in the alien subs. They make it just that little bit more difficult to assault the USOs. In UFO, most of the ambulatory aliens would eventually leave the ship. In TFTD, you have to go in to get them.

 

Underwater-only weapons do work on land -- but only if used via reaction fire. Not worth it, Imho. Better to just switch from hydro-jet cannons and torpedo launchers to the gas cannons for land missions. But if you have a few very good reaction soldiers, well, a reaction fired large torpedo on land can be very effective!

 

Grenades are now nigh indestructable, and can withstand quite a beating. Both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that you can now layer your explosives several times and have them all work without destroying each other. A curse, as you illustrated, the particle distrubance grenades cannot be destroyed very easily. The proxy mines still do not detect vertical movement, so you can drop on top of them in order to remove them. (on the other hand, I think the sonic pulsers can destroy them -- only the next item that 'occupies' the mine's previous slot in the item table will have its armed proxy-mine flag switched on. Not very nice if it's an ammo clip)

 

You can treat the sonic oscilator as you treated the plasma cannon in UFO. Only you need all three sonic weapons for it. It has better range than the plasma cannon, and can pretty much best anything but the Dreadnaught. In general, they're very good investments indeed.

 

As for bases -- yes, structure your bases defensively as you would in UFO. The aliens appear to be able to start in modules that are immediately adjacent to their entry points (i.e. the sub pens and the air lock). The less alien access points there are in a base, the more concentrated their forces will be.

 

Unless you've applied the XComutil fixes, I think the base disjoint bug still applies in TFTD. So keep that in mind when building along the rightmost and lowest edges of the base - some of the smaller modules can get sealed off.

 

USO hulls and doors are indeed somewhat weaker than their UFO counterparts.

 

Dye grenades are rather useless when compared against UFO's smoke grenades. Relatively, anyway. They still provide the same function, they just aren't as effective. Dye grenades create smoke in 1 tile, and you have to wait several turns for the dye particles to spread outwards to create a cloud that is dense enough to hide your units. A much faster solution would be to just lob a sonic pulser or magna-pack explosive. 'Smoke' particles last longer on land, as well as fire in general.

 

- NKF

 

P. S: Regarding port attacks -- you can deal with anything but the lobstermen with starting level equipment and gauss weapons. It's hard, but not impossible. Using the Triton as a safe-haven helps get the mission started. However, if you cannot handle the mission, and it's still early in the game, I'd highly recommend that you first locate any deep-ones (look a bit like silver gill-men with a pink nozzle on their face) or calcinites (brown aquanaut-look-alikes) and bring a sample of their bodies back to the ship before dusting off. In the case of Deep-Ones, also remember to bring a living sample back with you. If you miss out on either of these aliens now, and still don't have Ion Armour or the vibroblades by the time the gillmen and aquatoids become scarce, you may have to face a very long wait until the terror units make a reappearance in the 'mixed' crews.

 

P. P. S: When I say I think the proxy mines can be destroyed with pulsers -- I've seen it happen on land, but I can't say for sure if it works underwater.

[Slythe]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Ouch, you have to research all the sonic weapons to get sonic oscillators ? That's gonna hurt. It seems like it might be worth investing in more scientists in TFTD than I did in UFO.

[Rattler]

You sure your subs are indestructable underwater? My leviathan got hit by a few stray disruptor pulse launchers, that's another thing the Aliens in TFTD miss like 75% of the time the Disruptor Pulse Launcher while in UFO Defense the Aliens miss like only 10% of the time, And when I scrolled back to the sub there was a hole in the side of it

[NKF]

Every time I've shot my own ships with DPL torpedoes on purpose while underwater, they were not damaged, even with repeat hits. But don't take my word for it. Run an experiment and find out for sure.

 

Speaking of DPL inaccuracy... yes, the aliens do seem to have this inability to hit floating targets very well. On the other hand, their ability to hit units on the ground is remarkable. That's no surprise.

 

- NKF

[Rattler]

I'll take your word for it. I've only had it happen to me twice outta probablly 100+games(I bought TFTD before I got UFO and for a time it was the only game I had at all) so it was probably just a glitch on my part.

 

 

The aliens never seem to hit their target in my games with the DPL regardless of if they're floating or on the ground. But it still scares the crap outta me when I see it coming cause yes they miss their intended target but they kill my men that are behind the "front lines" by near misses and so forth

[Slythe]

Changing the topic a bit here, but I'm curious if anyone employs a generally different research strategy in TFTD than they do in UFO. The tech trees in both games are very similar obviously, but with some notable differences. In UFO I go to laser rifles first, then get to power armor, medkits, heavy plasma, plasma cannons, psi, etc in that order usually. With TFTD I see you need to research *every* sonic weapon before getting the oscillators, plus there's a HTH weapon branch in the tech tree that'd be very helpful. So what order does everyone research everything in ?

[Hobbes]

The difference with TFTD's timeline is that you'll need to recover/capture different aliens that are necessary for most of the research to progress.

While on UFO you need to capture some specific alien ranks you're usually not confined to a single race (with the exception of psionics). On TFTD you'll need Tasohs, Lobstermen, Calcinites, Gillmen and Deep Ones of different ranks and sometimes it can take a while for a situation where you'll encounter what you need to advance your choice research. Sometimes you want to get HTH weapons moving but since there's no Aquatoid port attacks you'll just have to wait and use the Live Deep One you've just captured to get started on aqua-plastic armor.

It is simply more easier for a research subject to stall due to the lack of a particular item on your stores. I remember once playing version 1.0 (without Microprose's patch) you needed a Lobsterman Navigator in order to get Magnetic Navigation (without which you couldn't get the better subs). It took me dozens of men going after three alien colonies since the Navigator was killed on the first attempts.

My best advice would be to, when you find a research thread (HTH, Sonic, Armor) where you're sure you have everything you need for it to be deployable on the field in a short while, finish it and meanwhile keep an eye on the field for what you need. When that is done then you can start worrying about the other research.

[Rattler]

I prefer the frist version it makes it soooooooo much harder to do. But it does get annoying it took about 25 games before I actually got Ion Armour cause of that little glitch. It got to the point that I thought Ion Armour wasn't actually in the game it was something that was put in but taken out shortly before release but they forgot to remove it from the UFOpedia.

 

 

In other words, try to capture as many live aliens as possible cause you'll never know when you need to research one

[NKF]

Important aliens to capture? Hmm, my alien shopping list generally looks like so:

• Any live alien x 1 (Any live aliens in the list below will do. It's for Alien Origins. While it may seem unimportant, it starts the 'T'Leth' research branch)
  
• Deep One Terrorist x 1 (M.C.-Lab & Ion Armour)
  
• Calcinite Terrorist x 1 (Optional) (M.C-Lab)
  
• Any Gillman x 1 (upgrade the vibroblades to thermic lances)
  
• Any Tasoth (M.C disrupter)
  
• Lobsterman Commander x 2 (Leviathan & The Ultimate Threat. The second commander is for T'Leth The Alien's City. Alternately, you can also substitute a Commander with a Navigator for The Ultimate Threat)
  

For completeness sake, the list of important alien corpses:

• Deep One Corpse x 1 (Aqua Plastics)
  
• Calcinite corpse x 1 (Vibroblade tech)
  

 

I think that's it. Oh, then there's a few others like technicians, squad leaders and medics. They're okay, but not required to win the game or get all the technology.

 

Hmm let's see... assuming a best case scenario where you get all your research done in the most advantageous order possible, and you don't intend to use the M.C disrupter or upgrade the vibroblades, then you'll only need to capture 3 live aliens to win the game. A Deep one and two lobstermen (commanders or a navigator and commander combo).

 

- NKF

[Rattler]

Not with my game, it's an old version. You need to research a live Deep one 2 times before you get Ion armour. And several other things have to meet the criteria too such as you already need aqua-plastics. Also need a Tasoth squad leader to get MC. Lobsterman Navigator for magnetic navigation. A live calcinite to upgrade the vibro blades to thermic lances. And those are just the ones off of the top of my head. I know there are more

[Ki-tat Chung]

don't forget to update TFTD with the v2 patch. xcomutil also fixes some bugs (eg difficulty where all levels were beginner). i usually don't bother with gauss and the part. sensors at all until the end. i start with medkit, then sonic pulsar (i usually have one by the time i finnish) and then sonic cannon. if there isn't a sonic cannon, then i go for the next most powerful sonic weapon. after i finnish the cannon, i go for armour. to this point, even though i am quite a few months into the game now (i don't remember and my hdd failed so i lost my game), i still have heaps of reaserch to do. i got the pulsars, cannon, mag ion armour, mc stuff, and thats about it. my reaserch order is very strange, isn't it?

i try to order things so that it has an imediate bonus in tactical, rather than overall gameplay. im still using terrain ships and weaponary.

[Pendra37]

Since human weapons sux hard in this game (even the heavy gauss is a popgun compared to the sonic pistol) you need to organize sniper and recon units. I usually use 3-4 sharpshooters for that. They stand next to the Dropship and wait. If the recon units find an alien then I let the snipers take it down.

Beware of the alien grenades. It seems they figured how to use them, and tend to thorw quite frequently with lethal effect.

Phosphorus bolts rock! They light the dark places! Also if you fire some into an alien craft then you can set the camper aliens on fire and see them run around also the precious alien artifacts would be spared. However sometime it just doesn't ignite

Every month starts with either a ship assault or a MC controll center assault.

The ship assault is extremely boring where you need to wipe all 3 decks with the same equipment you brought in. Doesn't worth the time, effort and lives of soldiers.

The MC controll assault is not much better. Consider it as a smaller base assault.

If you just let them slip then you loose like 500 points in the month. You can make up for this in standrad missions later.

Terror sites are also a pain mainly because heavy weps doesn't work. Using the Choelcatns as a movable cover LOL. I wonder what did they do with the trusty Laser Rifles and flying suits.

Don't even try to assault a base without proper MC skills. I made record short engagements with negative results.

Build defensive sections, cos if the aliens find one of your base then they will keep attacking it on a regular basis. It is kinda annoying after a while.

LOL thing that you can't intercept flying subs. I wonder what did they do with the good old Interceptors.

Thermic lance is ESSENTIAL against Lobsterman. Without that you simply don't have a chance. Once I made one to panic and it dropped all of its weapons. Like 8 of my guys in flying ion armour armed with Gauss rifle encircled him and started to recation shoot at it. It took like 5 rounds and all of them used 2 clips just to wear the lobsterman down in point blank range LOL.

[Zombie]

Speaking of differences between EU and TFTD... The other day I was searching for the last alien holdouts in a Port Terror Site and noticed a Tasoth in the upper floor (3rd story) of the large building. Not wanting to actually go upstairs to kill the alien directly, I decided I'd shove a Magna-Blast grenade through the ceiling. After I threw it, my stomach dropped: the grenade landed near the steps and I got worried the hole would prevent my aquanauts from finishing the alien off if need be. Well, turns out the grenade didn't injure the floor tiles one little bit! (Compare this to EU where grenades can destroy lots of ground tiles).

 

As another test, I shoved a Sonic Pulser through the floorboards as well. It destroyed wall segments left and right, but the floor was still fine to walk on. Nice!

 

Never having to worry about navigating around the holes in blasted out floors is a very nice feature indeed, especially since Mag Ion Armor doesn't allow soldiers to fly on land.

 

- Zombie

[Pete]

especially since Mag Ion Armor doesn't allow soldiers to fly on land.

 

You would think that they'd dust off the old Flying Suits from the first alien war for flying on land, but ohhh no...

[Thunder_Gr]

Speaking of differences between EU and TFTD... The other day I was searching for the last alien holdouts in a Port Terror Site and noticed a Tasoth in the upper floor (3rd story) of the large building. Not wanting to actually go upstairs to kill the alien directly, I decided I'd shove a Magna-Blast grenade through the ceiling. After I threw it, my stomach dropped: the grenade landed near the steps and I got worried the hole would prevent my aquanauts from finishing the alien off if need be. Well, turns out the grenade didn't injure the floor tiles one little bit! (Compare this to EU where grenades can destroy lots of ground tiles).

 

You must have been lucky... If the grenade was landed on the steps instead, you would have the ladder gone...

 

As another test, I shoved a Sonic Pulser through the floorboards as well. It destroyed wall segments left and right, but the floor was still fine to walk on. Nice!

 

Never having to worry about navigating around the holes in blasted out floors is a very nice feature indeed, especially since Mag Ion Armor doesn't allow soldiers to fly on land.

 

- Zombie

 

Actually, it costs more TUs to go through holes on the floor, IIRC. And the floor between levels does get damaged in a way that, if you step on it, you drop down a level.

 

Generarly, I like TFTD better than UFO-EU, because the difficulty is higher. However, the feeling is equaly awasome . If only the programmers have taken a bit more time to fix the remaining bugs... Even in this state, though, they are the best games I have ever played(and I have played a lot of games!).

[Zombie]

Steps seem to have a lot more armor than floor tiles do for some reason, so I never have much trouble with that aspect.

 

I was just taking a look at the MCD records in MapView and noticed that the death tile for the tan floors in the multi-level warehouse actually points to itself! That's gotta be a bug. That explains the extraordinary explosion resistance since whenever you apply enough damage to "kill" the tile, it just reverts back to a fresh copy of itself with full armor. No wonder.

 

It takes 4 TU to step onto most tiles in the game (including no tiles), so there is no difference.

 

- Zombie

[Thunder_Gr]

Steps seem to have a lot more armor than floor tiles do for some reason, so I never have much trouble with that aspect.

 

I was just taking a look at the MCD records in MapView and noticed that the death tile for the tan floors in the multi-level warehouse actually points to itself! That's gotta be a bug. That explains the extraordinary explosion resistance since whenever you apply enough damage to "kill" the tile, it just reverts back to a fresh copy of itself with full armor. No wonder.

 

Really? It is definatelly a bug, then!

 

It takes 4 TU to step onto most tiles in the game (including no tiles), so there is no difference.

 

- Zombie

 

Hmmm. I am pretty sure that it takes 8 TUs to move on holed tiles...But again, this may be when the bublles are covering the place...

 

And I would like to also say, that TFTD contains land in addition to water missions, thus more variaety, contain two stage missions(cool! And in such a way that no game after X-COM have done this so far. I have to try extraterestrials, though, although I have heard that it isn't as good as X-COM, despite the fact they tried) and large maps. One of the downsides of ALL games after TFTD is that their tactical maps are ways too small...

[Zombie]

Dye grenades are rather useless when compared against UFO's smoke grenades. Relatively, anyway. They still provide the same function, they just aren't as effective. Dye grenades create smoke in 1 tile, and you have to wait several turns for the dye particles to spread outwards to create a cloud that is dense enough to hide your units. A much faster solution would be to just lob a sonic pulser or magna-pack explosive. 'Smoke' particles last longer on land, as well as fire in general.

I just created a "fix" for the TFTD Dye Grenade which can be found in the files section here. I know there has been some discussion that the 10 for power could have been a mistype for 100. Well, I don't know if any of you have used a 100 power Dye Grenade before, but the area it covers is gigantic. That's way too big. For this reason I cut the yield down to 60 like in Enemy Unknown. I suppose it could be argued that the 10 for power was done intentionally so that it made the game more difficult. But even with that yield, the spread of smoke/dye is slow and very spotty. So if this was intentional, it was done so without much thought.

 

By the way, the Dye Grenade particle effects look exactly the same as in EU (like smoke). Too bad the smoke doesn't look like dye underwater. Could have at least given this a different particle set though.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

TFTD actually does have two different particle sets, the new one being appended to the SMOKE archive. It's denser and has a sort of greeny-yellow tint to it. I never got around to working out under which circumstances it was used, but once you've seen the two sets side by side it shouldn't be too hard to tell them apart in battle.