A new XCom should be...

[Zombie]

I think the 8-base limit should be lifted completely. Let X-COM build as many bases as they want. It would be cool to "take over" alien bases but it should probably cost you something to "retrofit" it so that it meets minimum standards (Hangars, LQ's, R&D, etc). And alien retaliation should be much more frequent if you take over their bases.

 

- Zombie

[AlanatXcomHQ]

While lifting the 8-base limit seems like a good idea, one question did come to mind:

"At what point does it become financially become a burden on the player?"

 

What I mean is, if the 8-base limit is removed and the player decides to generate 20 bases, whilst they may have radar superiority over the world map, enabling them to find aliens instantly, it would be financially redundant to the player since the cost of maintaining 20 X-com bases and lets say another 20 Alien bases (so 40 in total) would be a huge financial burn in the X-com wallet.

 

Perhaps as a suggestion, what if the cap was raised to 10 X-com bases, with 20 alien bases? With each alien base costing roughly half of an X-com base (essentially 2 alien bases for the price of 1 X-com base) Meaning on a financial scale, the X-com wallet would in total have to maintain the equivalent on 20 X-com bases in total.

 

And as for the retrofit, what if facilities cost half in money to "retrofit" and half the time to "build"?

So for example, say a normal X-com facility took 20 days to build, in an alien base, the same facility would cost half as much and take 10 days to build. Although the function within them would still take the same amount of time (Like research could take 10 days to finish in both X-com and alien bases)

[Zombie]

I suppose that's fair, but the point I'm trying to make is that the player should have complete control over the management aspect. If you want to build 20, 30 or even 40 bases around the world and go bankrupt because of the maintenance fees, so be it. If you can still make a go of it, more power to ya.

 

If more bases are allowed, I'd suggest lowering the detection radius of the radars and hyperwave decoder. Otherwise it would be too easy to gain the upper hand in detecting.

 

- Zombie

[Space Voyager]

I like "soft caps" much more than hard ones. Becoming a financial burden seems far more "real" than just not being able to build more. It is a lot harder to balance, though.

[Bomb Bloke]

The logical way to limit bases is to limit the amount of cash they can produce.

 

In the original games, the more engineers you can house, the more money you can make. You never have more stuff then you can sell, and junk can be converted to cash on a whim.

 

Demand has to be capped in order to break this rule - once you're making more stuff then can be sold, it's no longer economically feasible to continue base expansion.

 

In short, a base should never be able to produce more money then it needs to maintain itself. So long as this is enforced, then the base limit - from the player's perspective - will depend on how much they can make from fighting the aliens and keeping the government's happy.

 

Mind you, the original games didn't give much incentive for making more bases beyond money-making. They were a good place to bulk-screen for psi, but there was no real reason to have more then one, perhaps two, alien tracking facilities. Especially true if an alien base turned up nearby (doubly so if it was filled with Floaters!).

[AlanatXcomHQ]

Zombie: "If more bases are allowed, I'd suggest lowering the detection radius of the radars and hyperwave decoder. Otherwise it would be too easy to gain the upper hand in detecting."

 

Currently, in X-com 1 and 2, the image below shows the rough estimate on the detection radius.

Also consider that short and long range radars only have a 10-20% CHANCE of detecting alien ships, and apparently only check the radius once every half hour, everything else (Like craft and hyperwave) has a 100% detection chance.

https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/5/57/Detection_and_tracking_ranges.png

 

Yellow = craft, Green = Short range, Blue = Long range and Red = Hyperwave decoder.

 

I found this image from www.ufopaedia.org and thought it would certainly be a helpful guide.

 

Perhaps as a suggestion, what if the player was given an in-game representation of their radar radius, X-com 1 and 2 didn't show this, but the first hint of a radar radius I believe came from X-com Interceptor. Perhaps an image of a rotating sonar like radar above the base to show the player just how far they can scan. Plus the rotation can be done based on the speed the player decides to go through day.

 

So short range can rotate like 4 time an hour, whilst long range could do 2 times an hour.

 

As for reducing the radius of the scans, how much do you want to reduce it by? Because too many bases may very well make the player to have 1 main base with high-stat soldiers whilst the rest become nothing more then listening posts with interceptor hangers and psi/brave screens for raw recruits.

Plus could alien owned bases have radars? Or should there be a limit on what facilities can be made in an alien base?

[Jman4117]

I'd say make bases takable, but it'd have to be known to the other side where that base is after that to offset the advantage of not having to dig your own hole for you base, and whatever other building advantages you got from taking a base from the other side. As for being able to build anything, I'd say yes. Anything that doesn't convert over to the other side's tech should be scrapped for materials that can be recycled or sold. You'd have that area as an empty tunnel/building frame or whathaveyou. You would then be able to build your facility in that space with only the need to place bulkheads and move in any equipment needed. Perhaps 1/3 time and 2/3 cost maybe, or go further and have a time/cost for the different stages of the construction, such as $50k and 6 days to dig and frame your 1x1 square, with $150k and 4 days to buy your equipment/walls and place it all in the unit.

 

As for radars showing up on screen, I'd say make it optional as to whether they want the sweep, a simple circle or nothing at all. Perhaps even with passive and active modes. Active would give the advantage of seeing it all, at the expense of alerting the enemy. Or alternatly, you could have the ability to place pickets near your base but not inside of it, to help conceal your base.

 

As for bases, there should be a soft cap based on economics. Start going into debt? You have too many bases. All bases should cost the same unless terrain factors into it. The only advantage with taking the enemy bases should be in the money saved on useful buildings captured and in the time saved digging tunnels for new buildings to go into.

 

As for aliens attacking to take it back, I think it should be moved to the top of the retaliation list. They want revenge for their base, and would like it back.

[AlanatXcomHQ]

The only problem I can see about the other side (The AI) knowing where the base is, is a particular scenario of the AI being able to locate and at least attempt a raid on each base X-com owns and thus "remembering" where each base is and sending their heaviest and strongest alien ships to attack it. Unless the AI is programmed to forget after a set time, this may lead to the AI being ruthless and effectively "haunting" the player's bases throughout the world.

[SectoidEmperor]

A simple solution for the base-taking mechanic might be this.

 

After clearing out an alien base, you have two buttons labelled "Destroy" and "Occupy." If you decide to Destroy the base, it disappears off the map, just like in the classic games. If you decide to Occupy it, the base-menu comes up with your newly conquered base on it, and you can immediately start spending funds to convert alien facilities into your own. As others have said, this would be cheaper than building from scratch, but REALLY pisses off the aliens.

 

On a related note, what about the possibility of aliens having Base Defenses? It always struck me as odd that you could shoot down incoming craft, but the aliens couldn't. I think the Defense system in general was way too simplistic; it would be nice if there could be a flightsim-type minigame for landing at an enemy base or defending one of your own, like the Interception system.

 

I really like the suggested alien behaviors, particularly the "last fleeing alien." However, there'd need to be an incentive for the player to try to pursue the fugitive; a couple points more or less for bagging another corpse isn't much of a motivator for prolonging the mission. Additionally, I think some types of alien should flee, but others should not; some creatures would rather die than retreat. Actually, that's something that should be a major point throughout the game; vastly different behaviors for each race. Fighting Sectoids (or whatever) should feel really different from fighting Mutons (or whatever).

 

Also, hi everyone!

[Zombie]

Zombie: "If more bases are allowed, I'd suggest lowering the detection radius of the radars and hyperwave decoder. Otherwise it would be too easy to gain the upper hand in detecting."

 

Currently, in X-com 1 and 2, the image below shows the rough estimate on the detection radius.

Also consider that short and long range radars only have a 10-20% CHANCE of detecting alien ships, and apparently only check the radius once every half hour, everything else (Like craft and hyperwave) has a 100% detection chance.

https://www.ufopaedia.org/images/5/57/Detection_and_tracking_ranges.png

 

Yellow = craft, Green = Short range, Blue = Long range and Red = Hyperwave decoder.

 

I found this image from www.ufopaedia.org and thought it would certainly be a helpful guide.

 

Perhaps as a suggestion, what if the player was given an in-game representation of their radar radius, X-com 1 and 2 didn't show this, but the first hint of a radar radius I believe came from X-com Interceptor. Perhaps an image of a rotating sonar like radar above the base to show the player just how far they can scan. Plus the rotation can be done based on the speed the player decides to go through day.

 

So short range can rotate like 4 time an hour, whilst long range could do 2 times an hour.

 

As for reducing the radius of the scans, how much do you want to reduce it by? Because too many bases may very well make the player to have 1 main base with high-stat soldiers whilst the rest become nothing more then listening posts with interceptor hangers and psi/brave screens for raw recruits.

Plus could alien owned bases have radars? Or should there be a limit on what facilities can be made in an alien base?

Yup, I know about that image. The reason why I brought up lowering the detection radius was because of it in fact. I mean, doesn't it seem unrealistic that a land based radar system in X-COM can detect objects many hundreds of miles away? Radar works on the principal that you need line of sight to the target to detect it. The best Doppler radar systems can only see 150 miles out these days. Satellite based radar systems obvious circumvent the line of sight issue by placing the detector miles above the earth which increases the horizon. But the ufopaedia claims that's only for ground targets. There is also the issue of resolution, but I'm not about to go into that as I don't know much about it.

 

The only problem I can see about the other side (The AI) knowing where the base is, is a particular scenario of the AI being able to locate and at least attempt a raid on each base X-com owns and thus "remembering" where each base is and sending their heaviest and strongest alien ships to attack it. Unless the AI is programmed to forget after a set time, this may lead to the AI being ruthless and effectively "haunting" the player's bases throughout the world.

Maybe the aliens just assume that their base is destroyed since X-COM agents are superior at camouflaging? That would give you a little time to set the base up for X-COM use, but maybe the aliens conduct scouting runs and eventually discover activity.

 

A simple solution for the base-taking mechanic might be this.

 

After clearing out an alien base, you have two buttons labelled "Destroy" and "Occupy." If you decide to Destroy the base, it disappears off the map, just like in the classic games. If you decide to Occupy it, the base-menu comes up with your newly conquered base on it, and you can immediately start spending funds to convert alien facilities into your own. As others have said, this would be cheaper than building from scratch, but REALLY pisses off the aliens.

 

On a related note, what about the possibility of aliens having Base Defenses? It always struck me as odd that you could shoot down incoming craft, but the aliens couldn't. I think the Defense system in general was way too simplistic; it would be nice if there could be a flightsim-type minigame for landing at an enemy base or defending one of your own, like the Interception system.

 

I really like the suggested alien behaviors, particularly the "last fleeing alien." However, there'd need to be an incentive for the player to try to pursue the fugitive; a couple points more or less for bagging another corpse isn't much of a motivator for prolonging the mission. Additionally, I think some types of alien should flee, but others should not; some creatures would rather die than retreat. Actually, that's something that should be a major point throughout the game; vastly different behaviors for each race. Fighting Sectoids (or whatever) should feel really different from fighting Mutons (or whatever).

 

Also, hi everyone!

Welcome!

 

I always found it strange that the crew being inserted into a base wasn't affected by the craft being shot at. You would expect that the number of aliens present would be fewer, but it isn't.

 

I'd envision that the last fleeing alien would be something like Apocalypse where there are points along the map where the aliens can escape. That way is stupid though because it is unrealistic that an open map only has a few spots open to evacuation. That said, if an alien did escape, there should be a bigger penalty because it would probably terrorize the public.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

In the original game, when the aliens start attacking your base, they keep coming until you let them in and defeat them in tactical combat. Once you do this, they have to find your base again.

 

But here's the thing - lots of different "groups" of aliens can find your base, and the more that do, the more attacks come in.

 

This would imply that there are different "factions" of aliens and they don't share all their knowledge with each other. It could be that this is done on a "per alien race" basis, though I suspect it's more of a "per alien base" thing.

 

But in terms of realism, race seems the way to go: Each is "competing" with all the others, and so if you take a base down, only that race knows about it (kinda like how not all humans know where X-COM bases are - it's not like the military comes to your aid when you need it). They're not going to alert the other aliens to their little problem, for fear of one of them taking instead of returning the lost outpost. Hence they may be somewhat lacking in terms of the resources required to immediately attempt to evict you.

 

Heh, I suppose I'm going off into dreamland with this next idea, but it seems to me it'd be pretty cool if you could capture an alien base without any of them knowing about it - that is to say, you could maintain a front that it was still under alien control, steal off their supply ships, and perhaps even get access to secret transmissions that wouldn't be picked up any other way.

[SectoidEmperor]

In the original game, when the aliens start attacking your base, they keep coming until you let them in and defeat them in tactical combat. Once you do this, they have to find your base again.

 

But here's the thing - lots of different "groups" of aliens can find your base, and the more that do, the more attacks come in.

 

This would imply that there are different "factions" of aliens and they don't share all their knowledge with each other. It could be that this is done on a "per alien race" basis, though I suspect it's more of a "per alien base" thing.

 

Probably just a game mechanic, but still an interesting thought.

 

But in terms of realism, race seems the way to go: Each is "competing" with all the others, and so if you take a base down, only that race knows about it (kinda like how not all humans know where X-COM bases are - it's not like the military comes to your aid when you need it). They're not going to alert the other aliens to their little problem, for fear of one of them taking instead of returning the lost outpost. Hence they may be somewhat lacking in terms of the resources required to immediately attempt to evict you.

 

The thing with this is that it MAJORLY impacts the in-game lore. Before implementing something like that, there would have to be a bit of discussion on how the alien society actually works, and how the different races interact.

 

Hell, that's worth at least one thread of its own.

 

Heh, I suppose I'm going off into dreamland with this next idea, but it seems to me it'd be pretty cool if you could capture an alien base without any of them knowing about it - that is to say, you could maintain a front that it was still under alien control, steal off their supply ships, and perhaps even get access to secret transmissions that wouldn't be picked up any other way.

 

SB1: This is Sectoid Base One! We are under attack, repeat, we are under attack!

 

CC: Cydonia Command here. Identify the nature of your attackers and the scope of the assault, and we'll have reinforcements on the way as soon as feasible.

 

SB1: It's...we can't...its X-co-....

 

CC: Sectoid Base 1? Sectoid Base 1, come in! Sectoid Base One?

 

SB1: *cough* Haha, hi there, glorious and all-destroying supreme commanders. This is...um...*what are they called again? Oh, right* the Sectoid base. Y'know, Sectoids. We're short and have big heads. How you doing over there, your evilness?

 

CC: ...

 

SB1: Anyway...uh...sorry to bother your vileness, but...uh...we need some more supplies. Like, if you could send us a few shipments of elerium, crewed by floaters or snakemen (but no chryssalids), it would make crushing the puny hu-mons much easier. You might as well spare the expense of arming them too; we have things under control pretty well here, there shouldn't be any danger.

 

CC: *nukes it from orbit*

[Bomb Bloke]

The thing with this is that it MAJORLY impacts the in-game lore. Before implementing something like that, there would have to be a bit of discussion on how the alien society actually works, and how the different races interact.

The lore, as far as the original game portrays it, is that each race is "deployed" by the "alien masters", that being the Ethereals who serve the motherbrain.

 

No further specifics are given, other then the Mutons being directly controlled by the Ethereals - without the mind control link, they're rigged to die on the spot. So in theory, if the Mutons have some information, the Ethereals know it as well.

 

But what we observe in-game is that each race sticks to it's own kind, with the exception of their favoured "terror" creatures which appear to be somewhat lacking in the brains department. Even after sacking a few alien bases, there's no visible reason why the races don't mingle - after all, their facilities are exactly the same, so there doesn't seem to be any technical reasoning behind it (any alien can survive in any alien base). You won't even see Supply Ship crews mis-matching with the bases they service.

 

I didn't realise people had other views on the subject, though I'd be interested to hear what they are. Political - or at least cultural - issues are the only reason I can come up with for this behaviour.

 

(Heck, we even know it's not a game engine limitation, because the final mission of the game does pit you against multiple races at once).

[Gimli]

The story and setting is one element of X-Com that has potential but is very underdeveloped.

[SectoidEmperor]

(Heck, we even know it's not a game engine limitation, because the final mission of the game does pit you against multiple races at once).

 

You sure about that? The final level has terror units from several races, but I think the only actual race you fight is the Ethereals. There are sectoids on the Martian surface, but that's a different map.

 

Am I wrong about this? If not, it could very well be a game engine issue.

 

In any event, the lore and background of X-com, particularly the aliens, needs a LOT of fleshing out. To avoid derailing this thread, here's another one: https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/Regar...4235#entry94235

[Bomb Bloke]

From the point of view of the battlescape engine, there's no real difference between a terror unit and a conventional one. The separation of races wasn't a technical limitation.

[Bloodmoney]

SectoidEmperor, Cyberdisc's (surface) and Chryssalid's (underground) also.

 

I always find that UFO:EU shouldn't have any sequel, since after defeating the Aliens X-Com had access to such technology, that almost nothing could stop humanity. TFTD and Apoc devs did basically ignore this to make sequels...

[Space Voyager]

I always find that UFO:EU shouldn't have any sequel, since after defeating the Aliens X-Com had access to such technology, that almost nothing could stop humanity. TFTD and Apoc devs did basically ignore this to make sequels...

Ah, there always is a bigger and worse villain. But yes, follow-ups should allow the use of formerly known techs while giving the enemy an even more powerful arsenal. Which is basically the same thing as not giving X-COM anything yet from the story point of view more clean.

[SectoidEmperor]

Ah, there always is a bigger and worse villain. But yes, follow-ups should allow the use of formerly known techs while giving the enemy an even more powerful arsenal. Which is basically the same thing as not giving X-COM anything yet from the story point of view more clean.

 

Goddamn you, Terror from the Deep. This is what you SHOULD have done. Goddamn you.

[AlanatXcomHQ]

Not to ruin anyone's bubble, but just to confirm to both Bloodmoney and Space Voyager that X-com Colonisation is NOT a sequel Chronologically speaking (ie not taking place AFTER any x-com game) but rather a chronological PREQUEL taking place some 65 million years BEFORE x-com 1 / UFO:EU

 

There was an interview about Colonisation that took place way back in August 2006 where this chronological date was stated.

 

On the notion on multiple alien races all competing with each other, this seems to spring to mind the large amount of "companies / groups" in X-com: Apoc that you could either please / displease or out and out trash them.

 

Now I am not one to suddenly suggest that you can pay off / buy / bribe a particular alien race from attacking you, simply on the notion that cause this game follows the formula that X-com 1 and 2 had, Colonisation would have the same sort of alien Hierarchy meaning the psychic overlords of the aliens make the point of buying an alien race out mute.

PLUS, X-com itself never ever negotiated with aliens in X-com 1 and 2 and Colonisation will more then likely follow the same route.