Two Quick Questions

[Zombie]

The problem was is that the base screen was only visible for 3-4 seconds, and I couldn't scroll up or down to see the full layout. It is possible that only 28 soldiers were able to "make it through" to see battle, while the other 12 simply vanished. But I couldn't tell. Perhaps some more testing is in order...

[NKF]

My guess is that the game enforces a limit to how many units each side can spawn onto the map. While you do get your 40 slots, perhaps some slots are just left reserved? I mean, the game may need to reserve some space in case one side has large units, right? And large units take up 4 slots.

 

Did these soldiers go AWOL once you returned to the geoscape roster or just during the mission? If it's just during the mission, then the same thing happens when you stock too many HWPs in storage (12+).

 

Hmm. It almost seems like you can make a few indestructable scanner/interceptor outposts this way, given sufficient soldiers and if you can force yourself to only use 1 interceptor. You never need fear base attacks ever again! No more defence modules, no more mind shields. And to top it off, the aliens are giving away their goods.

 

This sounds way too evil...

 

- NKF

 

P. S: General stores only specify an upper limit to how many items you can buy and transfer to this base. Not how much loot you can actually own. You can also continually add to storage from missions or manufacture regardless of the limit. You can still access your stores and manipulate it. It just means that you have a storage space of 0 for purchase or transfer (via base or ship).

[Pete]

Just like in the real world in office life then, when the store cupboard is full, you start using corridors and spare rooms and don't buy any more stuff.

 

You can just see the base commander with 20 Plasma Cannons in a crate next to his desk

[Zombie]

My guess is that the game enforces a limit to how many units each side can spawn onto the map. While you do get your 40 slots, perhaps some slots are just left reserved? I mean, the game may need to reserve some space in case one side has large units, right? And large units take up 4 slots.

 

I see your point, but look at it this way: I was at my maximum of 40 units. The game shouldn't reserve any more slots for HWP's since I'm already maxed out. For the aliens, they had 13 1x1 aliens present, and either 0, 1, or 2 2x2 terror units. That comes to a max of 21 for the aliens. 80 is the total number of units possible on a mission, right? 80-40-21 = 19 spaces left "open". Is that enough reserved space? See, both the aliens and myself had the max # of units in this example, and there still was 19 spaces open.

 

Did these soldiers go AWOL once you returned to the geoscape roster or just during the mission? If it's just during the mission, then the same thing happens when you stock too many HWPs in storage (12+).

 

Like I said, I didn't have enough time to actually count the number of soldiers present during the mission. The 28 soldiers I had left was taken directly from my base information screen during the Geoscape.

 

Looks like some more testing is definately in order to investigate this problem further. I'll try to get some more specific information and report back.

[NKF]

Zombie, might I suggest a rather primitive method for checking who's there and who's not?

 

Number all your soldiers at the base. Call the first soldier on the list 1, the next 2, 3 and so on.

 

Then in the mission, just tab to the next soldier (use the tab that skips previously selected soldiers) and keep at it until you've obtained a head count.

 

Alternately, they could be occupying the same tile. To find out you can move everyone. In TFTD, I manually edited a lot of soldiers onto a Triton (well beyond its max). The extra soldiers ended up at a location outside the sub, so they were there, but they were all at one corner of the Triton map block, 3 levels up, and all occupying the same space. It looked like one person floating in mid air. When I actually moved them all, there was roughly 12 or so of them.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

You are missing my point there, NKF. See, the game doesn't actually allow me to start the mission. Therefore, numbering my soldiers beforehand wouldn't help because there is a 3-4 second lag-time between the start/end of the actual base defense. I did some other trials where the base size was small and noticed soldiers missing there also. Perhaps my soldiers are trying to spawn on those nodes where some of my soldiers were already stationed. (I call this overspawning). It's just a guess at this point, but it explains why some soldiers disappeared after the mission ended.

 

With the small base sizes, there must be a limit on the number of nodes where units can spawn. When all the nodes are filled and there are still units that need to be placed on the map, the game must assign those extra soldiers to some of the same nodes which are already occupied. Since 2 units can't occupy the same tile, only one comes back alive.

 

Here is some more interesting information I uncovered playing a certain base defense mission. I kept the base-size small, just like a normal startup base. It had 1 Living Quarters, 1 General Stores, a Hangar, an Access Lift and nothing more. Here are the statistics where my soldiers spawned:

Structure 

[Bomb Bloke]

Two points. What if you try and start a mission with a ton of tanks? Mathematically, I think you should only be able to field 20 (or is that 10?); is the limit lower then this?

 

Second, NKF's idea can work. When you start the map, a file is produced which lists all the units in play. You could investigate this with a hex editor, but the easiest way to list the units is (wait for it) with my map viewer.

 

If you're half way through a test (and I'll bet you are), the most simplistic way to do it is to copy your game folder to another part of the drive. Then, run the log reseter program, and start the copied UFO game in the usual way. Load your game, and start the map. It'll instantly go back to the mission won screen, so you then quit the game, and run the logging program. This will, more or less, re-run the mission, with the exact same unit list - and stick all the unit names into the log files.

 

When you're done all you need to do is delete the temporary copy of the game. Simple, eh?

[Zombie]

Ok everybody, this is the latest from the testing desk of Zombie. Seriously, this information is really important, so take some notes if you feel inclined. I doubt anything even close to this has ever been attempted by anyone before.

 

Like I said before, all of your soldiers will spawn within the Living Quarters and General Stores if enough of those structures are present. It doesn't really matter what other structures you have besides the LQ's and GS's, the game prefers to place your soldiers here first. Once those are filled up, it starts to place soldiers anywhere else where there is room (not including the Access Lift or Hangars). If those nodes are filled up, the game then starts to spawn soldiers within the Access Lift and Hangars. That's how the pecking order seems to run in this game, but I'll keep you informed on some other tests I came up with while writing this. So it goes like this:

Living Quarters ----> General Stores ----> [All the rest of your base structures minus Access Lift and Hangars] ----> Access Lift and Hangar(s).

 

Now for the specifics. If you were to look at some of my posts in this thread, you would start to see some rather interesting things showing up. For instance, the Living Quarters always having 7 soldiers on L0 and 1 soldier on L1, for a total of 8 for the entire structure. Also, the General Stores having 7 soldiers on L0 and 4 soldiers on L1 for a total of 11. Those must be the maximum number of spawn-points that the LQ's and GS's hold. It would make sense that all the rest of your base structures have a maximum number of these nodes also. But how many? It's not a constant since the LQ doesn't equal the GS. This is what prompted my latest testing spree: determine what those numbers are.

 

Well, after 6 long days of testing, here are my answers:

Base Structure		  Level 0	 Level 1	 Total
Living Quarters			 7		   1		 8
Laboratory				  6		   1		 7
Workshop					6		   1		 7
Small Radar				 0		   2		 2
Large Radar				 5		   1		 6
Missile Defenses			4		   5		 9
General Stores			  7		   4		11
Alien Containment		   7		   5		12
Laser Defenses			  5		   1		 6
Plasma Defenses			 5		   1		 6
Fusion Defenses			 5		   1		 6
Grav Shield				 5		   1		 6
Mind Shield				 5		   1		 6
Psi Lab					 7		   3		10
Hyperwave				   5		   1		 6
Hangar					 15		   0		15
Access Lift				 5		   3		 8

I'm sorry for the sloppy look of my table, but the code tags are still broken. So I had to improvise the spacing somewhat to at least make it readable. To determine the number of soldiers possible in each base structure, I built a skeleton base consisting of 1 Living Quarters (holding 40 soldiers) an Access Lift and a Hangar. Then I added the different base structures (typically 3 of the same kind) then tallied up the results.

 

Interesting points:

1) The Small Radar module does spawn soldiers. Not a lot, but it still can have a couple upstairs. Three Small Radars weren't enough to show a result, so I doubled the number and then ran the trial again. Presto! Two soldiers were upstairs at every Small Radar.

 

2) Most modules with one large room on Level 1 always spawn one soldier at the top of the steps.

 

3) The Missile Defenses can spawn more soldiers upstairs than downstairs.

 

4) Hangars have 15 nodes where soldiers can spawn, though I couldn't actually get that number directly. I had to copy down those nodes for every trial I ran, then compiled an overall picture. Soldiers and aliens share the same spawn points only for the Access Lift and the Hangars, the rest of my Playstation base modules never had aliens spawn within them. Aliens spawning elsewhere in the computer versions modules do happen when there aren't enough nodes available in the Hangar or Access Lift.

 

Typical nodes in a Hangar are one in each of the rooms, and then the rest spaced about the perimeter of the inner square of the Hangar floor. I had some trouble coming up with a trial to show this since the Playstation would always go to the mission summary if the base size was small and the number of soldiers large. What I decided to do was add an extra Hangar (1 for the aliens and 1 for X-COM soldiers) to my skeleton base to see what would happen. Result: 12 soldiers in each Hangar, instead of maxing out one to 15, then adding the remainder to the second. Oh well, it was a good idea anyways. Fortunately, this test had an unexpected side-affect. It filled up the Access Lift with my soldiers! This was the only way I was able to determine this number directly since you cannot build more than one access lift at a base.

 

So there you go. A definative study of where your soldiers will possibly show up at a base defense mission. Granted, everyones bases are different so your results could change depending on what structures are built at the time of the attack. More test results will follow soon. I just thought I should post the majority of the new info here!

[Zombie]

Hmmm..... Thought someone would have found my new information interesting. Guess not. Oh well, it was a labor of love for me. On top of this, I am understanding X-COM base defense missions more and more, every day I test something else out.

 

Here is a quick question and answer session to explain some more ideas:

 

Q: What happens when you have exactly 40 soldiers and 40 spawn points?

A: I built 4 Living Quarters (32 spawn points) plus the Access Lift (8 spawn points) and nothing else. Since there were 40 soldiers there, theoretically I should automatically win the mission because my soldiers occupied all the spawn points leaving the aliens with none. Yep, this is true!

 

Q: Say you have 39 soldiers and 40 spawn points. Will only one alien spawn?

A: You bet! I used the same base set-up as before except one less soldier. Found only one alien, in the Access Lift.

 

Q: How about if you increase the spawn points to 41 while still having 40 soldiers? Will one alien show up?

A: Here again, the answer is yes. I built 3 LQ's (24 spawn points), the Access Lift (8 spawn points), plus 1 Missile Defenses (9 spawn points). The total is 41 nodes for 40 soldiers. Only one alien showed up in the Access Lift.

 

Q: Let me try to stump you. Say you build a Mind Shield after the aliens detect your base and start attacking it. Will they still be able to find your now-shielded base?

A: Sorry to say, yes. I even built 3 Mind Shield modules to hide my 40 soldiers stationed there. Once the aliens know where your base is located, they will always show up. You have to let them land at your base in order to make that group "forget". Adding shielding after-the-fact doen't make your base "invisible".

 

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Since I now understand the basics of base defense, I decided to tackle my question on why some soldiers never made it through the auto-win mission. Turns out that the only way this could happen is when the number of spawn points is less than the number of X-COM soldiers present. For instance, I built a 3 LQ's (24 spawn points), an Access Lift (8 spawn points), plus a Laboratory (7 spawn points). That comes to a total of 39 spawn points. I had 40 soldiers stationed at the base. No aliens could spawn because all 39 nodes were occupied by my soldiers, so therefore, I won by default.

 

But what happened to soldier #40? After the mission ended only 39 "survived". Well, I kept track of all the soldiers and found out that the last one on your soldier list didn't make it. What this means is the game takes your soldiers one-by-one from your list and fills up a node in your base (starting with the LQ's). If the game fills up all the nodes and there are still soldiers left, the game doesn't overspawn them as I originally guessed (meaning the first will get replaced by the next soldier). The game actually "drops", or "forgets" about them! If you "over saturate" a base defense with your troops, (say x = the number of troops, y = the number of spawn points and x>y), only the first y number of soldiers will spawn. The remainder (x-y) will be lost.

 

Yeah, I answered it myself! :lol:

[NKF]

Indeed it is a most commendable report Zombie.

 

Now, what would be the smallest and most optimal base layout for a radar/interception post? The barest essentials would be to house a radar, a place for troops and their weapons, a single interceptor (with dual plasma cannons) and maybe an optional mind shield.

 

Even with this small base, I think we quite a lot of spawn nodes. So, can we cut this down even further? I'm sure we can toss out the general stores and even the mind shield.

 

We're left with:

 

1 lift, 1 hangar, 1 quarters, 1 small/large radar or HWD. According to your notes, that would leave us with 33 or 37 spawn nodes (depending on the radar).

 

I can't see any legal way of cutting this down any further unless you manually destroy the living quarters (with a few blaster bomb in a previous base defence - so you'll need to let one enemy through) and dismantle the radar to bring a phantom radar into effect. Then sack the excess soldiers, leaving you with a base that consists of 1 hangar and 1 lift. If I'm not mistaken, that's 24 spawn nodes.

 

Wow, that's a very compact base. I can imagine everyone sleeping in the halls amongst all their ill gotten loot...

 

If my understanding of your notes are correct, as long as 24 soldiers are housed in this base, it'll count as an auto-win after a base attack?

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Thank you NKF for your kind words!

 

Assuming a normal base layout you would need a Hyperwave Decoder, a Living Quarters, a General Stores, an Access Lift and a Hangar to start out with. That comes to 48 spawn points. I have to make one point here: you can get by without a General Stores, but the only way I know how to allow weapons at that base is to get an auto-win base defense mission. Well, you could legally win the base defense mission with a little luck from the alien AI, but that is almost impossible.

 

Ok, so forget the General Stores. Now the base has an Access Lift, a Hangar, a Living Quarters and a Hyperwave Decoder. That comes to 37 spawn points. Assuming you have 36 soldiers (to allow the base defense mission to start), and Blaster Bombs from the previous auto-win base defense mission(s), you would need to shell something else besides the LQ (LQ's cannot be destroyed). The HWD is a good choice but then no radar. You would need to build a Laboratory and attach the LQ to that. Now, shell out the Laboratory which in turn takes out LQ's. Then kill the alien, and the mission is over. What is left? The Hangar, the Access Lift and a Hyperwave Decoder.

 

Now you may dismantle the HWD, leaving you with the phantom radar effect. Not much left now - just the Hangar and the Access Lift. That's 23 spawn points (15 for the Hangar and 8 for the Access Lift). Assuming you have 23 soldiers stationed at that base, you'll win your next base defense mission by default since your soldiers occupy all the spawn-points. :lol:

[Zombie]

For the past day or so I have been setting up a scenario that Bomb Bloke first suggested: a base defense mission with just tanks. Well, I tried this again on my Playstation and found out that a base defense mission with only HWP's will not happen. You have to have an actual living soldier present in order to properly defend your base. HWP's are not living, breathing, human beings, so if the aliens attack the base is lost. Bummer!

 

So I ended up constructing a similar test. Since you need at least one soldier present, I had to build a stupid Living Quarters just for him. Then I built about 10 General Store modules to house the HWP's. I figured I'd stock the base with 38 HWP's plus the one lone soldier, just in case each tank = 1 unit. Now, because building tanks was too slow for my taste, I purchased 38 Rocket Tanks and waited. When they arrived, I let the base defense mission start (by dismantling the fusion ball defenses).

 

Too bad that a tank = 4 units. All those tanks didn't spawn. Right now, I am going to run a mission with 9 HWP's and 1 soldier (37 units). That should prove interesting. I'll check back tomorrow with the results!

[Zombie]

Ok, here is some more information pertaining to a base defense mission with one soldier and a bunch of tanks. I built a very simple base consisting of the Access Lift, one General Stores and one Living Quarters. Then I hired a soldier, and purchased as many Tank/Cannons as the General Stores could hold. Even though a tank takes up 6 spaces in storage, I was able to purchase 9. That's 54 spaces used, when the GS is only capable of holding 50!

 

When everything arrived, I dismantled the base defenses and let the aliens land unhindered. Now I checked where the HWP's started out. 3 HWP's spawned on Level 0 of the Living Quarters, while 6 HWP's spawned in the General Stores (also on Level 0). My lone soldier also spawned in the Living Quarters. As I was doing a quick one-over of the base to search for potential targets, one of my tanks spotted an alien in the General Stores! I previously thought that this was impossible, but I guess it is with tanks! After killing all the aliens and winning the mission with just the tanks, the end-of mission screen showed up. Final tally: 9 aliens killed. So 8 aliens spawned within the Access Lift, while the ninth somehow spawned in the General Stores. I suppose that because I didn't have enough 1x1 units (remember that a tank is a 2x2 square which is 4 units), I wasn't able to "cover" all the possible spawn points.

 

My next test was even better. I built a base with the Access Lift, a Living Quarters, and 2 General Stores. Again, I hired one soldier and purchased as many tanks as my stores could hold. This time I was only able to purchase 17 tanks. (You would think that it would be 18, or double the number of one GS, but it is not). 17 * 6 = 102 spaces. The game must consider all the General Store modules as one gigantic storage facility instead of separate self-contained modules.

 

This time the mission was a bit different. See, that one soldier never spawned! Only 10 tanks showed up (10 * 4 = 40 "units"). It looks like the game actually spawns "equipment" first, then the actual soldiers. I found that interesting. One tank was in the Living Quarters, 4 were in the first General Stores, and 5 in the second. Once the mission was over, I checked my soldier screen and noticed he was still there, so my assumption must be correct.

 

By the looks of things, a General Stores should have 7 spawn points on the first floor. Why only 6 HWP's spawned instead of the 7 is a mystery. And why did an alien occupy one of those spawn points instead of the Tank is even more perplexing. Maybe some "mixed" missions are in order: some soldiers and some tanks. That might shed some more light on this mystery. I'll try those missions tomorrow and check back!

[Bomb Bloke]

Woah, you have been busy...

 

*claps*

[Zombie]

Are you being sarcastic? Of course I have been busy. Would you expect anything less from Zombie? I'm not just all talk you know. I actually go out there and get my hands dirty testing stuff!

 

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Ok, so my test base consisted of an Access Lift, a General Stores and a Living Quarters. For the first scenario I purchased 9 Tank/Cannons (36 "units"), and hired 4 soldiers. That's a total of 40 units, or the max. 6 HWP's spawned in the GS and 3 HWP's in the LQ. 3 soldiers spawned on L0 of the LQ, while 1 soldier was found upstairs in the GS. Overall, that's 7 spawn points taken in the GS and 6 in the LQ. I sent one of my tanks into the door which has the steps inside of the General Stores (on Level 0). Low and behold, there was a Sectoid standing there!

 

Now I reloaded the game and sold one tank (for a total of 8) and purchased 4 more soldiers (for a total of 8). Still 40 "units" but a different collection. Result: 5 HWP's in the GS and 3 in the LQ. 4 soldiers spawned in the GS and 3 in the LQ. That gives a total of 10 spawn points taken in the GS and 6 for the LQ. Can you guess what occupied the 11th spawn point in the GS? Yep, the alien!

 

Now I got to thinking. For an alien to spawn in the general stores, there aren't enough of my units occupying the nodes. That's what allows the alien in my module in the first place. So if I am somehow able to formulate a composition of soldiers and tanks to equal the number of nodes in the GS and LQ, I shouldn't find the alien there. Turns out, the total number of spawn points in a General Stores and a Living Quarters is 19 (11 + 8). So I took the first combination of units I could think of: 6 tanks and 13 soldiers.

 

I made the necessary changes, then let the aliens land. Right off the bat I knew I wouldn't find an alien in my GS since one of my soldiers was located where the alien would normally be! That's the trick: having at least 19 "units". For this "basic" setup there are a number of combinations which fill up the 19 nodes while keeping under the 40 "unit" limit. I'll list them here:

 

1 HWP, 

[Zombie]

The most recent tests concerning my "skeleton" base have uncovered some more surprising things about the game. Remember that my "skeleton" base consisted of just an Access Lift, a General Stores and a Living Quarters. That's a total of 27 spawn points (8+11+8). Because I wanted to see what caused an alien to spawn in the General Stores, the scenario forced me into having the access lift full of aliens plus the "extra" one in the general stores. That left me with 18 spawn points to fill.

 

Instead of having tanks and soldiers present, I decided what would happen with only soldiers. When you have 18 X-COM soldiers present, the "extra" alien spawns in the General Stores. When you have 19 soldiers present, that alien doesn't spawn. Nothing really exciting here.

 

Here's what threw me a loop: Instead of recovering only what the aliens that did spawn carried, I recovered everything that all the aliens carried, not just the ones that spawned! Say 8 aliens spawned. Not only did I recover the weapons/ammo/grenades/bombs/launchers that those 8 aliens carried, but I recovered the additional items that the rest of the aliens (which didn't spawn) were also carrying.

 

To test this out further, I filled up all the spawn points in my base except for one. That meant 26 soldiers. I also had 26 Laser Rifles and 18 Psi-Amps in the General Stores. Just as I suspected, only one Snakeman spawned in the Access Lift. The first spawn point in your base that seems to get filled is right in the dead-center of the Access Lift on the main floor (Level 0). I bet you never knew this!

 

Anyways, after I won the mission, I went into my General Stores to check what I recovered. Turns out I recovered 7 Heavy Plasma's, 14 Heavy Plasma Clips, 7 Alien Grenades, 3 Blaster Launchers and 12 Blaster Bombs! It looks as though you will recover everything regardless of how many aliens spawned in your mission.

 

The conclusion I drew from this data leads me to believe this:

1) The game initially calculates how many spawn points are in your base.

2) Then the game spawns all of X-COM's weapons and equipment (including tanks).

3) After that, the game starts to spawn your soldiers. If there are more soldiers than spawn points, some get dropped.

4) Next, the game spawns the aliens weapons and equipment.

5) Finally, the game will attempt to spawn aliens if there are spaces open in the Access Lift or Hangar. If none can be found, the game doesn't spawn the aliens, and you automatically win the mission.

 

This theory of mine seems to hold up for every mission I ran so far. So that's the order the game puts stuff on the map (at least for an X-COM base defense mission). What happens when you visit an alien base? I'll have to check to see what happens to be sure!

[Zombie]

Just for a change in pace, I decided to check out the spawn points in an alien base. Because an alien base is usually larger than an X-COM base (it's always completely built-up), there are obviously going to be some differences.

 

We all know that aliens can be found throughout their base. They do not have Living Quarters or General Stores like X-COM bases do, so there must be a structure where they spawn first. I'm guessing that this structure is the Command Center. Now, because the higher-ranking aliens always seem to be inside this module, they must spawn within that structure first. The lower ranking aliens are then spawned randomally throught their base (just like what happens with a full X-COM base).

 

That giant 19x19 structure in an aliens base (you know, the one with the watchtower in the middle with display cases and vats surrounding it), seems to be the aliens "hangar" structure. They like to spawn around the inside perimeter just like an X-COM hangar. If a module in an alien base has a 1x1 lift, a common spawn point is standing on the lift upstairs. There also seems to be some spawn points on the upper level of the alien "maze" structure, since non-flying aliens can be found there occasionally. An alien engineer with a Blaster Launcher can commonly be found upstairs near the Power Sources. That's where the aliens go.

 

My original intention in visiting an alien base was to check where your soldiers spawn. Well, we obviously know our soldiers start out upstairs in the "green room", but how many? I brought along a full compliment of soldiers with my Avenger (that's 26) to find out. It seems that 9 soldiers will fit upstairs in each green room arranged in a grid pattern. The upper left grid spot is vacant and that soldier spawns on the north-west corner of the red lift instead. Then, 2 soldiers spawn underneath the green room inside the alien base "proper". If you are counting along with me, that's 11 per green room module * 2 modules = 22 soldiers.

 

Where do those 4 extra soldiers you brought along go? Wait for it now.... They spawn randomally throughout the alien base! How 'bout them beans! Truth be told, they don't spawn totally randomally because the Command Center always fills up with aliens first, and those 4 soldiers always to seem to stand on the main level of the base (Level 0). But other than that, those soldiers go in any available spawn point that is open.

 

This might be a good strategy: always bring along 26 soldiers when visiting an alien base. Those extra 4 soldiers act as "advance scouts" because they spawn away from your main groups. If your soldiers have psi-abilities, those advance scouts can act as "spotters", for waging long-range psi-attacks. Interesting? I think so!

[Danial]

You think they would have developed the game with enough spawn points to atleast accommodate an Avenger's worth of soldiers. Unless, of course, they intentionally wanted you to get some scouts into the depths as a little bonus.

[JellyfishGreen]

This might be a good strategy: always bring along 26 soldiers when visiting an alien base. Those extra 4 soldiers act as "advance scouts" because they spawn away from your main groups. If your soldiers have psi-abilities, those advance scouts can act as "spotters", for waging long-range psi-attacks. Interesting? I think so!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one I'll have to try. Although, what weaponry loadout would you take, if you were going to be randomly inserted into an alien base, alone, with backup several rooms away?

 

Primed Hi-Ex packs, I guess. Survival is going to take some luck, even to survive until the backup arrives. 1-man floater base assault, anyone?

[Zombie]

If you stop to think a little, the programmers were probably right in only providing 22 spawn points for your soldiers. I mean, how often do you bring an entire Avenger filled with just troops to an alien base mission anyways? Most often, players bring along a tank. Filling out the Avenger now only requires 22 troops. Since HWP's always spawn inside the green room, there will be one soldier that spawns randomally. That particular scenario might be a problem, but if you only bring along decent troops, no biggie. If you decided to bring two HWP's, everything spawns inside those green rooms anyway.

 

The programmers might have envisioned an average of two HWP's on an alien base mission. Even if this isn't the case, the game seems to handle alien base missions and an X-COM base defense mission in much the same way. Except in rare circumstances (like my skeleton base), all bases (alien or X-COM) provide additional spawn points for the enemy.

 

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Actually, surviving a random insertion into an alien base is quite easy. I played through a few scenarios and everything went quite smoothly (even with rookies and no psi). See, a pair of soldiers usually spawn close together (well, not standing right next to each other, but within eye-shot anyways). This might have been the luck of the draw for my troops though.

 

What to bring along, you say? Heavy Plasma's all the way! (intentional rhyme)

 

Since most aliens have their spawn points predetermined by the game and the base set-up, those "advance scouts" are never going to spawn surrounded by aliens. You are going to be lucky just spotting a single alien! There are just too many nodes in an alien base for your soldiers to get surrounded.

[Bomb Bloke]

(Tanks don't always spawn in the green room. I had one spawn just below it just last night. They will always spawn in the lift module though, as you can only bring four tank on a craft, and they are the first units to spawn).

[Stun Grenade]

hmm why is it that my theads that want simple answers turn into heated discussions lol... ok please continue

[Zombie]

Heated discussion? A discussion requires two people, and since it seems nobody cares much for my results (or testing), this thread has simply become a crusade on my part.

 

Ah well, I spent some more time testing the spawn points in an X-COM base. This time, I built the same exact structures in my base for the Playstation and computer version. I did this to check if the spawn points correlated. The number of spawn points per module seems to be a constant between the two versions. However, the location of those spawn points within the structures differs ever so slightly.

 

Since the only mission I have saved on my computer at the moment is NKF's guard scenario, I decided to use that as a starting point. Luckily, his main base in Europe (I think it's called "Mainstage"), has aliens that are ready to attack. Unfortunately, that base doesn't have any defensive systems built which would provide me with the time to modify said base. As it stands now, I can only check a couple scenarios against my Playstation.

 

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NKF: Do you think you could modify your Mainstage base so that it has base defenses (like a Grav Shield and 4-5 Fusion Balls)? That would give me the time I need to properly set-up the different structures.

 

Or, if you are too busy, maybe someone else has a saved game where the aliens are attacking their heavily-fortified base. If anyone does, please post a link so I can start work on this scenario. Thanks!

[NKF]

A line from the current book I'm re-reading about sums it up:

 

...be mad

...it helps

 

Zombie: Would that be from my floater base assault game? Or a variant of it?

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

The scenario I'm working off of right now is your guard mission. You know, the Large Scout with a Muton on the bridge. The purpose was to try various methods to either "lure" or "kill" that alien without much risk to your soldiers. Ring a bell now?

 

Anyhow, just finish that Large Scout mission by killing that Muton on the bridge. The base the aliens are slated to attack is called "Mainstage" (I think). You might want to check this out personally to verify the correct base before changing anything. I'm pretty sure that base is in Europe.

 

All I really need is some decent defensive systems up-and-running before those aliens start attacking. I would prefer it if you could cluster the defense systems in a small area. If you need some room, those redundant radar systems on the left side could be deleted to make room. A Grav Shield and 4-5 Fusion Ball Defenses should be sufficient.

 

I downloaded an X-COM base editor a while back, but I never got it to work. That's why I'm asking for help. Otherwise I'd do it myself so I wouldn't bother you so much. Sorry!