Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.04

[Slaughter]

I downloaded Windows 7 RC 64bit the other day, and replaced Vista. Have to say that it's quite a leap compared to Vista. Granted I've only tested it for a few days, but it's seems quite a bit faster than Vista, and they've removed most of the annoying "allow this and that" questioning. Way too early to judge, but a positive first impression.

 

I also downloaded Ubuntu 9.04 while at it (have XP, Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.04 in a tripple boot), and there are very few reasons to stay with Windows these days! Ubuntu has had major improvements with every release, and the latest one is quite impressive. It even found my 3G card and set it up with the correct operator with the vanilla install (not getting 3G to work has been one of the few things keeping me away so far). If you haven't tested it yet, do so! You can boot it from the CD to test it before you install it

[Space Voyager]

I have to admit I am completely in the dark on the Ubuntu. I have heard about it but that is it... How do the Win programs fare on Ubuntu?

[Gimli]

I have 8.10 and it works nicely. If it weren't for the games, I'd use it far more often.

 

It really does have lots of cool things, pretty much every important thing Windows has. I really dig the terminal installation, much faster than having to search the net for a download site.

 

I'll check out the new one and see if I have enough room in my VM for an upgrade.

[Space Voyager]

Is there a way to... emulate Windows environment or something? And run games, Office or something?

[Gimli]

For DOS games there's DOSBox, which works fine. For Windows games there's Wine, but I don't know anything about it.

 

You can always have Ubuntu and then VMWare with Windows as a VM. But I think you won't have a lot of free HD space.

[FullAuto]

I remember reading about running Windows 'in' Ubuntu somewhere. Yes I know, I fail at technical knowledge.

[Knan]

Disclaimer: I'm a pretty experienced Linux pro, and don't have any Windows at home anymore.

 

+pluses

The X-COM series works fine in Dosbox. Silent Storm and sequels works fine in Wine, with a little fiddling. UFO:Afterlight worked fine last time I tried it. Mount & Blade works fine, once you look up a needed workaround. The KOTOR series varies a bit, but mostly tends to work fine. Master of Orion 2 works admirably in Dosbox. All the infinity engine games work fine (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, et al). Silent Hunter III, for the Das Boot-crowd. Jagged Alliance 2 in dosbox.

 

A little gem I found recently is called Legend of Cao Cao, tactical wargame, fan-translated to english from chinese. Works fine in Wine, got ten battles into it so far.

 

-+

Fallout 3 works fine, with some more fiddling and some instability.

Lord of the Rings Online works, but may be unstable, depending on graphics settings.

 

-minuses

Sword of the Stars is playable, but fragile, and I'm not quite sure why.

 

 

There are games I can't get working. But they aren't a majority anymore, at least doesn't feel like it. Then again, I know better than most what to try when I run into trouble

 

 

Look up CrossOver / CrossOver Games for a commercially supported option for running games and Office in Linux, if OpenOffice isn't good enough for whatever reason and standard Wine is giving you a headache.

 

(You can also run Windows in a virtual machine, like vmware, but most 3D games will fail - so not much point, usually)

[Pete]

On the Windows 7 note I read they've got in-built "XP Mode" in the latet Release Candidate and waht I read suggests it works pretty quickly and easily.

 

Whilst it was primarily designed to allow businesses to run older software on a newer operating system, this sounds like it could be potentially great news for getting games that don't run on Vista (either due to age or whatever) to run in Windows 7 in this mode.

[Thorondor]

XP Mode should be a very nice commodity. However, there's word only the Business and Ultimate versions of W7 are set to have it at retail.

 

::

 

That, and it seems not all Intel processors have what it takes to enable that mode...

[Pete]

Quoted from that link:

 

XP Mode will be a free download for those who have a license to Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Enterprise, or Windows 7 Ultimate

 

Hmm... most will be shipping with whatever they're calling Home Edition in Windows 7 then I suspect. Bugger.

 

EDIT: "Starter, Home Basic, and Home Premium" - all come before Professional edition so most folks won't have it. What the hell was the point in that then?

[Zombie]

Who would get a home edition though? I've always spent a little more money up-front and upgraded to a professional business edition. It's worth it in my view. (It's probably a little more stable and secure to boot).

 

- Zombie

[Slaughter]

I'm now on the buss going home to where I come from surfing 3G in Ubuntu 9.04

 

As for games, that's still the only reason keeping Windows. As Knan says, it's gotten a lot better over the last few years, but it's still more trouble than using Windows with most, and not possible for some.

 

That being said, other software is rarely a problem. You have these as default in Ubuntu 9.04:

 

- Office: OpenOffice has most of the features of MS Office, and is free. Only problem I had is with Macros sometimes, but I rarely use spreadsheets with them in, so it's not much of a problem.

- Images: GIMP is a GREAT image editing tool, and also free. It has most of the Photoshop features that an amateur needs at least (don't know about professionals).

- Video: You can of course install VLC, but the built in player works well and installs codecs automatically.

- Music: Rhythmbox works very well, so no worries there.

- Surfing: Firefox built in, Opera can be downloaded.

 

Besides that, you have a "Add/Remove..." menu that gives you access to a GIANT library of free programs. I've attached a screenshot that gives you an idea. In this particular case I've searched for ScummVm, that's a great utility for playing the old adventure games. The two free games listed below are both NEAT adventure games from the good old days.

 

 

The problem with Ubuntu (and other Linux distributions) is that it's harder to troubleshoot than Windows for most people. It's also not complete in it's transistion to GUI, so things like configuring 5.1 speakers and so on is troublesome.

 

That being said, so many things are better in Linux everyone should give it a go. Do yourself a favor and download it, burn it to a CD and boot it from the CD at least, to see what it's all about.

 

@Knan: Any chance of getting some "tech support" from you?

[Knan]

- Images: GIMP is a GREAT image editing tool, and also free. It has most of the Photoshop features that an amateur needs at least (don't know about professionals).

 

Professionals do a bit of bitching and tend to use Photoshop for their most advanced manipulations. As an amateur (though with a drawing tablet), I'm content with GIMP. Krita and Inkscape are two other good ones.

 

ArtRage works in Wine, and is quite cool. Though my Wacom-locked edition doesn't find its wacom and bails out.

 

The problem with Ubuntu (and other Linux distributions) is that it's harder to troubleshoot than Windows for most people. It's also not complete in it's transistion to GUI, so things like configuring 5.1 speakers and so on is troublesome.

 

I beg to disagree. That's just habit. Troubleshooting a BSOD in windows is totally hopeless for mortals. Troubleshooting a panic in linux is doable.

 

@Knan: Any chance of getting some "tech support" from you?

 

*cough* ... some, sure, but my tolerance is low for spoonfeeding. My google-fu is strong, quick pointers I can do.

[Slaughter]

I beg to disagree. That's just habit. Troubleshooting a BSOD in windows is totally hopeless for mortals. Troubleshooting a panic in linux is doable.

Well, BSODs are tricky, I'll grant you that (though having worked for Dell Business Support I'm quite good at those ). That being said, here's a few examples of what I mean:

 

* You want to configure 5.1 speakers. Where do you do that? (in Windows, there's a simple GUI, and you don't have to play with config files)

* I wish to change what OS my boot loader loads as default. Where? (again, control panel in Windows)

* I install a program, and no icon appears in the menu. Where can I find/start it? (Windows installers show you where, it's always Program files, and the file that starts it is called .exe. In Linux, you don't know if it refers to a file or folder...WHY no surnames for the bloody files!?!)

 

In general people are used to Windows, and it's thus easier for them to use it. There's also more people that knows Windows well, and that helps. Most of the issues I posted above can be solved with a Google search, but they are harder to solve for most in Linux. That being said, Ubuntu is a giant leap compared to the Redhat distros we played with in school (2000-2003), and most people can use the vanilla install without trouble.

 

*cough* ... some, sure, but my tolerance is low for spoonfeeding. My google-fu is strong, quick pointers I can do.

I used to work in tech-support, and hail from the DOS days, so I can navigate the terminals and search Google fairly well. I just have some issues with very low volume in the latest Ubunu, and the eternal 5.1 speaker setup problem, but I can likely solve it myself soon enough

[Slaughter]

Windows 7 to be released in 2009. If this actually happens remains to be seen. Guess it will still be beta like Vista was on it's "finished" release.

[Knan]

* You want to configure 5.1 speakers. Where do you do that? (in Windows, there's a simple GUI, and you don't have to play with config files)

 

Generally, you don't need to, afair... then again, I'm old-fashioned so my sound setup is 2.1. Haven't had much need to fool around with it. I imagine System=>Preferences=>Sound and choosing "HDA Intel AD198x Digital (ALSA)" (the important thing being Digital) would fix most of it, assuming you have a digital connection to your amp, and choosing Preferences=>Audio=>Use S/PDIF when available in VLC would fix the rest, modulo perhaps unmuting some mixer settings. No config files needed, with a bit of luck.

 

* I wish to change what OS my boot loader loads as default. Where? (again, control panel in Windows)

 

Edit the right config file. /boot/grub/menu.lst

 

* I install a program, and no icon appears in the menu. Where can I find/start it? (Windows installers show you where, it's always Program files, and the file that starts it is called .exe. In Linux, you don't know if it refers to a file or folder...WHY no surnames for the bloody files!?!)

 

If it doesn't show up, it was obviously carelessly packaged or made to be launched from the command-line. If a), rant in a convenient direction and/or make your own pretty icon. If b), fine, run it, generally things install in the command-line path. If you run strange unpackaged binary installers, you're pretty much on your own. If it breaks, you get to rant and keep both pieces

 

But yes, if you can't be arsed to edit a text file now and then to fine-tune various stuff, you'll find problems you can't fix. I'm fine with that. I'm literate. I prefer the precision of text above friendly config gui pictures. I'm not a missionary. I use Linux because I like it, not because y'all should.

 

Ah well. Followup-to: the firing range?

[Slaughter]

Hehe, I agree that most problems listed can be solved easily enough. My point is that when Ubuntu gets the last bits of "normal options" in the vanilla package GUI, they can battle Windows for real. Not going to topple Windows anytime soon, but could take some serious market shares. I would appreciate that quite a bit

 

Anyway, thanks for your advice! I now use Ubuntu as my default OS, and will figure out the last issues soon enough.

[Azrael Strife]

Hehe, I agree that most problems listed can be solved easily enough. My point is that when Ubuntu gets the last bits of "normal options" in the vanilla package GUI, they can battle Windows for real. Not going to topple Windows anytime soon, but could take some serious market shares. I would appreciate that quite a bit

 

Anyway, thanks for your advice! I now use Ubuntu as my default OS, and will figure out the last issues soon enough.

 

Ubuntu is indeed a very nice Linux distro, using the latest version of software packages included, in opposition to more stability-focused distros like Debian.

I believe it has a lot to challenge Windows with, but the people in charge need to walk a bit in the shoes of Windows users looking to migrate; most are clueless when trying Linux, they have no idea of what the filesystem is like, nor how some standard stuff work, including the enhanced security native of Linux (Windows users are used to running stuff in administrative mode, something like sudo is completely alien to them).

There should be a starting guide, with tips, how to's, etc, otherwise they are fighting the battle with a handicap...

 

I had Ubuntu as primary OS but I always have some sort of trouble; the time before the last one my audio one day suddenly stopped working; support on the forums was wildly varied as usual: download the drivers again (i didn't really know how to), download drivers source and compile (again...), run some alien (to me) commands, etc, etc. That threw me right back at Windows.

Last time I decided to give 9.04 a try again, but for some reason again I couldn't configure default resolution; it would reset to 1024x768 after each reboot, ignoring the xorg.conf (I think it was called) specification (edited by hand AND using the nVidia propietary configuration utility (running as admin, of course))

 

The learning curve can be steep some times, and the main problem I see is the information is not centralised, for any question you have tons of forums, blogs, manuals, etc, and most have different answers; it's not simple enough for the average user, solving a problem can take hours...

 

But, somehow, I'm still in love with Linux sadly I don't really enjoy wasting hours looking for a solution to a simple problem, so I'm back to Vista, serving my purposes quite well, I was impressed with Windows 7 and cannot wait to update