The research bug - which info is correct please?

[ironic lettuce]

Hi everyone, this is my very first post here so hi!

 

I just have a quick question regarding the research bug in TFTD. I read on this page that to get magnetic navigation I research thus:

 

Deep one corpse --> Aqua plastics --> Plastic aqua armour --> IB accelerators --> Live deep one terrorist --> Ion armour -->Mag nav --> Mag. ion armour.

 

but then, on this page, the first tip says:

First of all, DO NOT RESEARCH A LIVE DEEP ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE RESEACHED MAGNETIC NAVIGATION!!! (Apologies for the CAPS, it's a cut and paste job).

 

Can anyone tell me which it is? I know that there were differences between the versions before and after v2, but I'm not sure which I have. I don't think I can patch it because it's just a download I got from an abandonware site (I do have the collector's edition somewhere!).

 

In my current game I followed the first tree there and I have now gotten Ion Armour. However, when I finished that there was no choice for Magnetic navigation, but I don't know if that's because I have messed up the tree in terms of the order I do it in, or if it's because I need to get a Lobsterman navigator which would mean my game is pre v2.

 

Any help at all would be fantastic!

 

Thanks!

[Thunder_Gr]

Hi everyone, this is my very first post here so hi!

 

I just have a quick question regarding the research bug in TFTD. I read on this page that to get magnetic navigation I research thus:

 

Deep one corpse --> Aqua plastics --> Plastic aqua armour --> IB accelerators --> Live deep one terrorist --> Ion armour -->Mag nav --> Mag. ion armour.

 

but then, on this page, the first tip says:

First of all, DO NOT RESEARCH A LIVE DEEP ONE UNTIL YOU HAVE RESEACHED MAGNETIC NAVIGATION!!! (Apologies for the CAPS, it's a cut and paste job).

 

Can anyone tell me which it is? I know that there were differences between the versions before and after v2, but I'm not sure which I have. I don't think I can patch it because it's just a download I got from an abandonware site (I do have the collector's edition somewhere!).

 

In my current game I followed the first tree there and I have now gotten Ion Armour. However, when I finished that there was no choice for Magnetic navigation, but I don't know if that's because I have messed up the tree in terms of the order I do it in, or if it's because I need to get a Lobsterman navigator which would mean my game is pre v2.

 

Any help at all would be fantastic!

 

Thanks!

 

 

Do not research the live Deep one before you research magnetic navigation.

The first line you present does not take the bug in account.

[NKF]

All caps?

 

It's definitely Ion Beam Accelerators that you need to research before the live Deep One. Magnetic navigation isn't as problematic. As the original author of the TFTD research tree bug avoidance guide, this was the basis of my work.

 

The bug with magnetic navigation is version specific and relates to whether you need to get a lobsterman navigator before you are allowed to research it or if you can research it as soon as you get a sample.

 

- NKF

[Thunder_Gr]

If TFTD is patched, then the Live Terrorist should not be research before the Magnetic Navigation.

IIRC, in the patched TFTD there is no need for a Lobsterman Navigation.

[ironic lettuce]

All caps?

 

It's definitely Ion Beam Accelerators that you need to research before the live Deep One. Magnetic navigation isn't as problematic. As the original author of the TFTD research tree bug avoidance guide, this was the basis of my work.

 

The bug with magnetic navigation is version specific and relates to whether you need to get a lobsterman navigator before you are allowed to research it or if you can research it as soon as you get a sample.

 

- NKF

 

Thanks for all your replies guys!

 

NKF - I have researched up to and including Ion Armour using the path shown in my first post from the avoidance guide, but nothing else became available. Does that mean then that I have the version where I need to capture a lobsterman navigator to open up Magnetic Navigation?

[NKF]

That is very well the case. In TFTD with the v2 patch, Magnetic Navigation is usually the first to appear after you've successfully captured a submarine. In games prior to the patch, you had to capture a lobsterman navigator before it could be researched (and I think it allowed you to skip mag. ion armor too if you still hadn't obtained Ion armor - but I've not been able to confirm this).

 

- NKF

[Thunder_Gr]

That is very well the case. In TFTD with the v2 patch, Magnetic Navigation is usually the first to appear after you've successfully captured a submarine. In games prior to the patch, you had to capture a lobsterman navigator before it could be researched (and I think it allowed you to skip mag. ion armor too if you still hadn't obtained Ion armor - but I've not been able to confirm this).

 

- NKF

 

 

It allowed you to skip Ion armor. I would suggest patching the game to v2 though.

[ironic lettuce]

It allowed you to skip Ion armor. I would suggest patching the game to v2 though.

 

Thanks again guys, I just patched the game to 2.1 and will start again. I didn't think I'd be able to patch it because I play it through DOSBox. Don't know why I thought that would make a difference!

 

Thanks again

[Thunder_Gr]

I'd like to clarify the issue with the research bug. In the patched version of TFTD it is absolutelly necessary to research using the following order:

Deep One Corpse->Aqua Plastics->Plastic Aqua Armor->Ion Beam Accelerators -> Live Deep One, and now, I think it is OK to research magnetic navigation, although I would suggest researching Ion Armor first.

 

I was wrong in saying that the live Deep one should be researched after the magnetic navigation. If you do that, you will not be able to research Ion Armor and the game will be unfinishable.

 

Better late than never, they say, and I hope this message really clarifies the (major) research bug issue.

 

This information applies to v2.01 of TFTD

[magic9mushroom]

Think of it like so. This is for Collector's Edition/v2.

 

 

Deep One Corpse

 

|

 

Aqua Plastics

 

|

 

Plastic Aqua Armour + Ion Beam Accelerators

 

|

 

+ Deep One Terrorist interrogation

 

|

 

Ion Armour + Magnetic Navigation

 

|

 

Magnetic Ion Armour

 

 

The only bit in which order matters is that the Deep One Terrorist must be researched after Plastic Aqua Armour and Ion Beam Accelerators, just like you have to research a Lobsterman Commander after The Ultimate Threat to unlock T'Leth, the Alien's City.

[Thunder_Gr]

After reading magic9mushroom's message and rereading mine, I realised that I didn't really clarify the issue. What I meant by saying that, if you research the live deep one after researching magnetic navigation the game will be unfinishable, was that this will be the case even if you have already researched Ion Beam accelerators!!

So, the order "deep one corpse->aqua plastics->aqua plastic armor->Ion Beam Accel->Mag. Navigation->Live deep one" is WRONG. It will never give you ion armor, and will never be able to research the advanced subs.

In fact any combination of research in this line other than Deep One Corpse->Aqua Plastics->Plastic Aqua Armor->Ion Beam Accelerators -> Live Deep One is risky.

 

The whole point is that Live deep one terrorist must be researched after Ion beam accelerators + plastic-aqua armor and before magnetic navigation. So, to be on the safe side, just stick to the given correct order to be able to finish the game.

 

P.S. A reminder that this info is correct for DOS version 2.01 of TFTD.

[magic9mushroom]

After reading magic9mushroom's message and rereading mine, I realised that I didn't really clarify the issue. What I meant by saying that, if you research the live deep one after researching magnetic navigation the game will be unfinishable, was that this will be the case even if you have already researched Ion Beam accelerators!!

So, the order "deep one corpse->aqua plastics->aqua plastic armor->Ion Beam Accel->Mag. Navigation->Live deep one" is WRONG. It will never give you ion armor, and will never be able to research the advanced subs.

In fact any combination of research in this line other than Deep One Corpse->Aqua Plastics->Plastic Aqua Armor->Ion Beam Accelerators -> Live Deep One is risky.

 

The whole point is that Live deep one terrorist must be researched after Ion beam accelerators + plastic-aqua armor and before magnetic navigation. So, to be on the safe side, just stick to the given correct order to be able to finish the game.

 

P.S. A reminder that this info is correct for DOS version 2.01 of TFTD.

 

I don't think researching Mag. Nav. before the Deep One causes a problem. They're independent, right?

 

I seriously can't be stuffed making a new game of TFTD to test though.

[JINZONINGEN 73]

I followed the various research trees faithfully but in the end wanted to complete it all with the lance and vibration tools... only I NEVER encountered a Calcinite!

 

It was all base attacks and monotonous alien base attacks after a point. No terror missions with Calcinites.

 

SO... I went and just downloaded the complete research / production files.

 

Had to... it was really starting to be no fun at all.

[Zombie]

Vibration tools? Sounds kinky.

 

Aye, in my current game the terror missions took backseat to alien bases which seemed to be popping up every month. No base attacks for me though, thanks to the MC Generator. But after a while terror missions started cropping up again. Maybe wait a little longer?

 

- Zombie

[magic9mushroom]

So wait a sec, in both your experiences Alien Surface Attacks missions stopped happening?

 

Interesting.

[Zombie]

Mine stopped only for a short while (~6 months). May just have just been the luck of the draw so to speak. Although, I'd much rather deal with a surface mission any day rather than constant alien bases.

 

- Zombie

[Thunder_Gr]

I don't think researching Mag. Nav. before the Deep One causes a problem. They're independent, right?

 

I seriously can't be stuffed making a new game of TFTD to test though.

 

No, they are not independent, unfortunatelly. The point is that Magnetic Navigation + Ion Armor -> Magnetic Ion Armor. So, if at the point you research Magnetic Navigation, you haven't got Ion Armor at your research tree, you will never be able to aquire it as a research item, effectivelly ruining your progress... If you recall that a live Deep One is required to get Ion Armor, you can see why it is important to research the live Deep One at this specific point.

 

I can confirm that researching mag. nav. before live Deep One did not give me Ion armor for all the games I tried the compination(more than 4).

[magic9mushroom]

No, they are not independent, unfortunatelly. The point is that Magnetic Navigation + Ion Armor -> Magnetic Ion Armor. So, if at the point you research Magnetic Navigation, you haven't got Ion Armor at your research tree, you will never be able to aquire it as a research item, effectivelly ruining your progress... If you recall that a live Deep One is required to get Ion Armor, you can see why it is important to research the live Deep One at this specific point.

 

I can confirm that researching mag. nav. before live Deep One did not give me Ion armor for all the games I tried the compination(more than 4).

 

That's odd, I think I got Mag. Nav before Ion Armour on my Beginner playthrough.

 

I'm now running Superhuman as an LP, so when I get the chance I'll make a separate save and try it.

 

Because the fact that you need Mag. Nav. and Ion Armour to get Mag. Ion Armour should not affect Ion Armour itself.

[NKF]

Did you have to get a Lobsterman Navigator to get the Mag. Navigation before getting Mag Ion Armor? If that's the case, than that was before the v2 patch.

 

I myself don't recall having any problems with researching Magnetic Navigation before Ion Armor with the V2 patch - the right research should pop up right away.

 

- NKF