Strange things in X-COM

[Bomb Bloke]

Heheh... Anyways, while every tile does emit a level of light, keep in mind that usually the level is ziltch.

[Zombie]

Heheh... Anyways, while every tile does emit a level of light, keep in mind that usually the level is ziltch.

Sure, but I didn't know if this was actually true or not. See, NKF mentioned that Alien Entertainment spheres seem to emit their own light. If that's the case, then whats not to say that any tile with an object in it casts light. To make sure there were no errors in my test, I had to assume that it was true for the sake of argument. If a shot were to accidentally destroy a different tile other than the lamp, the results could be different.

 

I did have a inkling before the test that most tiles do not emit light. Otherwise, everytime you shot an object, the light level in that area would decrease. Obviously, this is not the case, because when you nuke an area (like an orchard with lots of objects in it) the light level there does not suddenly drop to pitch-black!

[Bomb Bloke]

The map works like this. There are a possible of four things in a square (not including items and units and smoke and fire...). One is a wall, another is a second wall, the third is the ground and the forth is an object (lamp for eg).

 

Any of these things, wall, floor, or object, have a light level (usually 0). That is, an alien entertainment thingy (which is a wall) produces light in exactly the same manner as a lamp, and is presumably doused in much the same way. You don't have to have an object in a sqaure for it to produce light, as the walls and floor can also produce light.

 

Other then these tiles, fire creates light, your units create light, and flares create light. That's all I can think of.

 

Is it possible to douse streetlamps?

[Zombie]

What to you mean by "douse"? If you mean "extinguish the light source by shooting the light out", then yes. If you destroy a streetlight the light level goes down (during everything but full daylight missions). You might not notice an immediate change because there are always other lamps nearby which are still lit. If you were to destroy all the streetlights visible in a screen, that drop is more apparent.

[Bomb Bloke]

By 'douse', I mean 'extinguish by any means neccesary', of course.

[Zombie]

Sorry to dredge this topic up from the midst, but I hate to start a new thread when an old one will do just fine!

 

So what I was doing was transferring items from one base to another. To be more specific, I transferred an empty Avenger from my base in the United States to another base in S.E. Asia. Cost: $1,692. Now I transferred an empty Avenger from my base in S.E. Asia to my base in the United States. Cost: $3,385. What the!?!

 

Why is it double the cost to ship one way than the other? Any answers, because I'm totally confused!

[NKF]

Different exchange rates.

 

Or perhaps it's because the value of the land differs, hence the different courier fees.

 

Was the Avenger at 100% fuel before the transfer?

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Ok, I gathered some more information on the transferring of Avengers. Both of my bases were identical in nature. I had 3 Hangars at each base but only one was being used to house the Avenger. The Avengers were stripped of their weapons, and had nothing in their cargo hold, had all their fuel and were undamaged. The Avenger swap was performed in one sitting, not backing out to the Geoscape and going back in.

 

USA Avenger ----> S.E. Asia base : $1,692

S.E. Asia Avenger ----> USA base : $3,385

 

Now I reloaded the game but swapped the Avengers going the opposite direction.

 

S.E. Asia Avenger ----> USA base : $1,692

USA Avenger ----> S.E. Asia base : $3,385

 

The first Avenger that gets transferred only costs half as much as the second one. But why? Is it because the "courier" is busy at the moment?

 

See, if you initially transfer the S.E. Asia Avenger to USA, it costs $1,692. Say you wait until that Avenger arrives, then send out the USA Avenger to the S.E. Asia base. It still costs $1,692. Maybe the transfer "queue" is full with one Avenger being shipped by the courier. When you add multiple Avenger, the price increases.

 

I also transferred two Avengers between identical bases in S.E. Asia and Southern Africa. Result:

 

S.E. Asia Avenger ----> So Africa base : $1,687

So Africa Avenger ----> S.E. Asia base : $3,375

That's double again.

 

Now I transferred an Avenger from Europe to So Africa, and the other way around:

 

Europe Avenger ----> So Africa base : $1,115

So Africa Avenger ----> Europe base : $2,230

Double again.

 

Obviously, distance between the bases plays a factor in initial cost. However, that second transfer always costs double of what the first one did.

[Danial]

I think this is another flaw you've just discovered!

 

I tried it out myself with 3 Interceptors:

 

1st: $1977

2nd: $3955

3rd: $5932

 

For some reason, the program is saying "He's sending 3 Interceptors, so 3x$1977=$5932" without realising that it had charged me for the first 2 already! So by sending 3 Interceptors one at a time, you're infact being charged for sending 6!!

[Danial]

Something else I just found is that it only occurs with craft. I tried it with various other items and it works normal.

 

I also found the reasoning for it:

 

Somehow the craft's transfer cost stays in memory, so to speak. If you send a craft, and then click the "Transfer" button again without anything selected, it will still come up with the last craft's transfer cost, and then anything you send from there on in is simply added to that number. If it happens to be another craft, then that craft's cost will also stay in memory, and therefore be added upon as well.

[OmegaTwo]

I think this is another flaw you've just discovered!

 

I tried it out myself with 3 Interceptors:

 

1st: $1977

2nd: $3955

3rd: $5932

 

For some reason, the program is saying "He's sending 3 Interceptors, so 3x$1977=$5932" without realising that it had charged me for the first 2 already! So by sending 3 Interceptors one at a time, you're infact being charged for sending 6!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, wow! Exponential sending costs? That's why I liked XComApoc more. At least the bases were so near one from another that I could transfer stuff without extra costs.

 

Anyway, nice way to discover a glitch.

[Zombie]

You are exactly right Danial!

 

Just to prove the point that the game doesn't clear the transfer cost after a craft is shipped to another base I did a simple little test.

 

First I noted what my funds were before I started to transfer craft around. Now I transferred an Avenger which costs $1,692. Now I clicked on the transfer button again, and a cost of $1,692 showed up. I clicked "OK" and continued this over and over. Then I checked my funds again. Sure enough, the total went down by the number of times I clicked "OK", not just $1,692!

 

Looks like a flaw to me too!

[Zombie]

Location: Cydonian base mission.

 

I had just finished with the first round in the underground Cydonian base. During the aliens turn, one of my troops spotted movement down a long corridoor. I sent my Plasma Hovertank in to investigate. The HWP spots a Sectopod looking away from it at the far end of the corridoor. Since I had some Psi-Troopers along, I mind controlled one section of the Sectopod, then made it shoot itself with it's infamous auto-shot option. The Sectopod falls to a heap on the ground stunned. Nothing really strange yet.

 

At the end of the round I had completely forgotten about that stunned Sectopod. At the end of the aliens turn, I got a message stating "Sectopod has died from a fatal wound". As I ckick "OK", I remembered that Sectopod that went down in a heap. Hmmm.... I must have fatally wounded it in the process also. Cool. (Proves once again that aliens can get fatal wounds and will die from them, even if unconscious).

 

After I did everything that I could do that round, I clicked the next round button. Immediately, before the aliens could do anything, I hear the sound of wreckage and get another message stating "Sectopod has died from a fatal wound". I just laughed, and clicked "OK". Now I hear some more wreckage sounds, and get another message stating the Sectopod died. I click "OK", and hear yet more wreckage sounds and another message stating that the Sectopod has died from a fatal wound!

 

What surprised me was that all 4 quarters of the Sectopod didn't die at the same instant. 3/4 of the thing lingered on till the start of the aliens turn!

 

I think I have explained the reason why the Sectopod died the way it did. Because I had MC'd one section of the Sectopod when it fell unconscious, that was the first section to die. However, the other 3 sections were still under alien control. When their round started, the rest of the Sectopod got its death papers.

 

Still, I have never seen anything like this before, so I got real kick from the outcome.

[Stun Grenade]

Hehehe that is quite funny!!! I wonder if its the same for the Reaper?

[NKF]

Reminds me of the time I'd destroyed a cyberdisc without causing it to blow up. I can't remember if it was stunned. Might have been. You can never tell unless you're listening attentively - which I wasn't.

 

But after a couple of turns, one quarter wakes up (or perhaps it never went down ... who knows - it's just plain weird) and just stays there without doing anything. This being the primary quarter (the bit that the game does all the collision detection with). Not sure why it didn't do anything unless it wasn't able to see anyone. Shot it, and it exploded. That's about it really.

 

Ooh, then there's my old story about mutons on fire turning into women... Had that once or twice. Heavens know why it was just with the Mutons. And the corpses counted as dead civilians too.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

NKF: Was the primary section of the Cyberdisc which does the collision detection tests the same quarter that also has the weapon turret attached? If not, then the reason why that Cyberdisc quarter didn't do anything was because the weapon "segment" was down for the count.

 

From your recollection, I'm starting to think that 2x2 aliens will reawaken on their own, if their stun level decreases enough. It's possible that all 4 segments need to have the same low stun levels before the fully reconnected unit shows up (if at all). In the past, I've tried pumping the 2x2 units full of stimulant, and waiting a bunch of turns (like 200) for the unit to reawaken on it's own, but no luck.

 

Whoa! Mutons turning into civilians after they die from fire? That's really strange! I'll have to try this with the Playstation sometime to see if that happens.

[Bomb Bloke]

It may be the case that medkits don't work on large units. I could manually try reducing the stun of a large unit to test out whether they reduce stun on their own and get up, as waiting around is... tedious.

 

As for why one segment of a large unit would wake and not the others? Well, they all share the same stun value, so you'd expect them to get up at the same time. As for why the single segment wouldn't move, I gather they all have to be functional at once to do that.

 

By the by, messing around a little I turned a soldier into a large unit. In game, it looked like four men (who marched in unison).

 

I assume the Mutons turned into women before they died? Odd. Can't comment on that one.

[NKF]

Well, the Mutons turned into women when during their death animation (I think the common factor here was that they were all in or on fire). You know, the odd little dance they do by spinning around until they drop to the ground. This time it did all that, but right after it turned towards me (well, the death animations are all rendered in one direction so it's not surprising), it switched over to the female civilian death animation. Scream and everything.

 

Zombie: Yep, it was the bit that has the gun.

 

- NKF

[Bomb Bloke]

On X-Com tanks, the weapon segment is the lower right one, as opposed to the top left. Well, graphics-wise, anyway.

 

The game works out how many civilians you kill via a counter which goes up during gameplay. If you were scored as having killed civs, then those units would've been counted as civs when they died.

[Zombie]

Here's something I always wondered about but never tried: what happens if you eliminate/destroy an alien base when a Supply Ships is ready to land, or already landed at said base?

 

I got a little curious about this and decided to check it out today. A Supply Ship is detected heading to a known Floater base nearby to one of my bases. I quickly send out my assault squad which arrives at the base before the Supply Ship. Now my troops quickly polish off the Floaters and Reapers at the base and then start to return back home. In passing, the Supply Ship landed where the base used to be, and flew off as normal!

 

*Psssst!* "Hey, Floaters. Don't you know your base is gone"?

 

Now I tried the other scenario where the Supply Ship has already landed at the base. After my troops wiped out the aliens and returned to the Geoscape, the Supply Ship was still there attempting to unload its goods to the now defunct base!

 

You just gotta wonder what happens to all those supplies. Do they get piled up outside where the base used to be? Not the brightest, those aliens, but I give them credit for trying!

[NKF]

Hmm, that raises another question.

 

What happens if you transfer or sell everything and close up shop while a retaliation battleship is en route?

 

I'm going to be presumptuous and say the game may crash. I don't know for sure, but it's a safe enough bet.

 

- NKF

[Bomb Bloke]

...

 

 

I thought about this for a minute or so, then it occured to me that I don't know how to close my own bases down.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

 

If you can, then my bet is that the game tells you you've lost an undefended base. I'm thinking you'd need some work with a hex editor to rig that one, though... Is it possible to get two alien craft aimed at the same base? That might a legal method...

[NKF]

Easy, just dismantle the lift.

 

Of course, you need to be able to disassemble all the facilities joined to it as well.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Hmm, that raises another question.

 

What happens if you transfer or sell everything and close up shop while a retaliation battleship is en route?

 

I'm going to be presumptuous and say the game may crash. I don't know for sure, but it's a safe enough bet.

 

Well, I tried this too. Sold everything at my North American base and then dismantled all the structures there except for the Access Lift and a Hyperwave Decoder. I needed the HWD to detect the retaliation far enough out to know it was coming. Just for giggles and some extra detection capability, I had 2 Avengers patrol the area which were under the 0% fuel transfer trick.

 

Soon enough, a retaliation battleship showed up on my radar. Just before it tried to land at my now undefended base, I dismantled the HWD and Access Lift. It didn't disappear, or make the game crash. In fact, it just hovered over the spot where my base used to be.

 

To be funny, I sent my two Avengers to intercept the battleship. Once they got into intercept mode, I minimized the screens and sped the time forward. It took a long time before anything happened, but as soon as another UFO was spotted, the retaliation Battleship tried to make a run for home! I shot it down.

 

I tried this same scenario again, except this time the Avengers remained patrolling. Time was again sped forward. This time, another retaliation Battleship was spotted heading to my now dismantled base. As I clicked the "Ok, 5 sec" button, the game froze up!

 

So if you don't want the game to hang, you must shoot down that hovering retaliation Battleship. No need to actually visit the crash site, but shooting it down prevents the game from going into a loop if the next UFO detected is a retaliation ship for the same base. Interesting, and odd!

[NKF]

Aha! New rule of thumb.

 

Only dismantle a base when the coast is clear - or if you have the firepower to shoot down a battleship. Yep, got to remember that.

 

When I did it the game just crashed - but that was with the CE. I haven't tried it with the dos edition to see what happens there.

 

- NKF