Strange things in X-COM

[FullAuto]

I think I may have found a way to open doors without walking through them. I'll keep testing it out until I'm sure.

[Sean Do]

I'm gonna wait here on the edge of my seat Fullauto until you get back on the opening door without going through it thing. It bugs me so much that you can't just simply open the door!!!!!!

[FullAuto]

Ok, first off, I'm happy to announce, you CAN open doors without walking through them.

Secondly, I'm sad to announce that SO FAR, I have only been able to get it to work on the PSX version.

I'm still struggling, though, so it's not the death-knell yet.

Here's what you do: Get your soldier and position him next to the door, facing it (duh). Then put your cursor on the other side of the door. Bring up your shoot/throw/use menu thing, choose something so that the cursor is now the target instead of the box, ok? Then tap R1 a few times quickly. The cursor should revert to being the usual rectangular box and the door should open.

 

I'm working on my speech for X-Com's "Man of the Year" award, don't worry.

[Bomb Bloke]

*tries it on PC*

 

Er... I don't have a R1 button.

 

Actually, I didn't test, but I presume the right mouse button (cancel aim mode) would be the closest alternative. Guessing that's what R1 does.

 

Ha! I said the craft lost was probably a base, didn't I?

[FullAuto]

Like I said, only works on PSX so far. But it's probably in the PC version too. Somewhere. I mean, a button on the PSX version must have an equivalent key on the PC.

I think.

[Zombie]

Opening a door without stepping over the threshold in the PlayStation is hardly a new phenomenon or development. I have been touting it's use since 1997 when I found out this trick, and publicly on this website since May of this year. The only thing I never did was explain how to do it (pretty simple actually). Here are my posts listing this capability:

 

Zombie Posted: May 30 2004, 01:30 AM 

If doors were opened during the aliens round, the soldier right at the door opens it without stepping inside. (Do you see why I like playing UFO on PSX? This tactic is impossible in the PC version!) If he sees an alien, he shoots at it - usually killing it. If he was unable to log the kill, one of his buddies will pick up the slack and mop up!

 

Zombie Posted: Jun 18 2004, 02:13 AM 

Let me add a little here:

 

In the PC version of this game you cannot just open a door. You have to completely step through, which sucks! You should be able to right-click just beyond the door to open it - like the PSX version allows.

 

Zombie Posted: Jun 23 2004, 02:52 AM 

The "Just Open Door" is for PSX users only.

 

Ok, to just open a door in the PlayStation version, put the controller in Mode 2 (or the Point and Click Interface). Now, align the box so that it is right in back of the door you are trying to open. Simply press the circle button and VOILA!, the door opens up without the soldier stepping through. So far, I have been unable to find a similar way to open doors in the computer version of the game. The right-click button was my first choice, but unfortunately, it does not work!

[Bomb Bloke]

It does work under TFTD, but I'm sure you all knew that.

[Zombie]

Here is a strange tidbit in the wonderful world of X-COM: What is the only alien ship that cannot be destroyed by Blaster Bombs? Give up? It is the lowly Small Scout!

 

I was mucking around with Blaster Launchers this past week, and wondered what would happen if Blaster Bombs were used on a Small Scout. Being too lazy to purchase and equip one of my Avengers with a single Cannon to shoot one down, I decided to wait until one landed. Whew! It took a looong time but eventually a Floater piloting the smallest UFO in the game landed at night to secretly scope out a spot for a future harvesting mission.

 

When I got into the mission, every one of my soldiers was equipped with a Blaster Launcher and 4 Blaster Bombs plus a Laser Pistol, just in case. Luckily, the Small Scout landed about 10 tiles away from my Skyranger. Now I just blasted away at the Small Scout. I targeted various parts of the ship but was unable to even damage it. After 10 bombs were used up, I took revenge on the Floater who was starting to get shell-shock from all the explosions!

[Bomb Bloke]

They never did get around to adding the sprites for the destroyed small scout. In fact, it get's it's very own tileset file, while all the other UFO's have to share.

 

The catch would be if you could destroy it. If you took out the legs (the most likely parts to take fire, as they are at ground level), then you're left with the top hovering in the air.

 

I've got a save game of a very damaged medium scout, just out of interest. It has one wall, and one cieling tile. The two are quite a distance apart. The ceiling hovers on it's own above the ground. The rest of the craft is either molten metal or burnt dirt; you can see where the seats were, but there's no sign of the power supply.

[Zombie]

Speaking of damaged Medium Scouts, I recently shot one down with dual Plasma Cannons. When I visited the crash site, the only thing that was left was one wall tile and one ceiling tile. To top it all off, only one Muton was alive after the crash! Kinda easy to mop up a crash site when 8 of the 9 aliens are already pre-killed!

[Bomb Bloke]

Five aliens in a medium scout...

 

No floor tiles, destroyed seats, or even some molten metal? That's pretty axed.

 

Spekaing of which, I had a map start where an alien had a fatal wound. I hit end turn, and the thing died. Doesn't happen every day.

[Zombie]

Yep, only one alien alive (and fatally wounded) at a crash site is a very rare occurrence indeed. This never happened for me in UFO yet, though it did show up in TFTD for me one time. If I may quote myself from a TFTD post:

Zombie Posted: Sep 16 2004, 04:49 PM

[Bomb Bloke]

It would seem that facs which store things can't be destroyed. I guess that's because it'd cause problems if you had no where to store your troops (at least in terms of logic).

[NKF]

I've always been of the opinion that the small radar module cannot be destroyed. But I suppose I've just not been persistent enough with it. Heh.

 

I'd also recommend having two entrances into the isolated hangar area. It does mean two choke-points, but it also means you can also perform a pincer attack, which can be brutal depending on the sort of firepower you choose to use.

 

It's still better than the three way entry points that the default base layout gives you.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Here is something that might be interesting. I was just playing some UFO landing and crash site missions today and decided to fool around with Power Sources and the Elerium they contain.

 

First part: Let a UFO land anywhere, then visit the site. Kill all the aliens but one. Shoot out the Power Source(s) with a Heavy Plasma and recover the Elerium. Now get back to your transport ship and abort. When you get back to the Geoscape screen, the UFO is magically airborne, without a Power Source or Elerium! (Nothing really new to me, but some of you may not have known this).

 

Second part: Send one of your intercepting craft to shoot down the UFO that somehow managed to take off. Save the game. Now visit the crash site. Because damage to UFO's is figured pseudo-randomly by the game, the UFO might survive the crash with it's engines intact. If it did not survive the impact, reload the game until it does. Do the same thing as above: shoot out the Power Source(s) with a Heavy Plasma. Presto! More Elerium-115!!! (Well, you don't have to shoot out the Power Source if you don't want to - you will recover the Elerium anyway. I did it just to see if more Elerium was spawned in the engines, or if the engines were unpowered).

 

It ends here though. If you abort from this mission with your Elerium in-hand, the UFO is not airborne when you return to the Geoscape. In fact, the UFO disappears completely off the map. This is because you shot the craft down. Abort any crash site and the UFO will disappear, this is how the game deals with it. So make it a point to finish those crash site missions. If you abort them, you will not get a second chance!

 

Still strange that you can get double the stuff if you let the UFO land first, then shoot it down and do another mission to recover more. This doesn't surprise me too much since alien base missions are very similar in nature. Do a smash 'n grab - go to the base and haul everything back to the green rooms, then leave the base. When you get back to the Geoscape screen, the base is still there, even if you managed to recover everything except one alien!

[Bomb Bloke]

Hmm... Logical, but interesting...

 

I played a mission last night. Yep, I actually fired up my '98 box and played a round or two for the first time in an age!

 

Anyways, a sectoid manned large scout, the door of which was visible from the SkyRanger. After a quick wipe up around the LZ, I sent the tank over to quard the door, my troops using it as cover in their own approach (as an alien was popping in and out of the door, taking pot shots).

 

The troops made it to the side of the UFO, standing where the aliens couldn't see them, as opposed to right in front of the door (because I knew that was dangerous in this case).

 

Then, during the alien's turn, the tank finally reaction fired. Boom!

 

The troops would have seen it thusly. One second, they're standing there, the next a rocket goess off a couple of meters away from them. The impact was so close that the tank took damage, and one of the soldiers ended up standing in smoke. Both soldiers were unharmed, thanks to the hull of the craft.

 

Anyway, with that alien down, they ran up to the door and went through. Engine chamber intact, one sectoid engineer in sight, two sectoid corpses?

 

Shot the engineer, game over. Five sectoids killed, five corpses recovered, says the debriefing screen.

 

So, as it turns out, the rocket missed killing my soldiers by a millimeter or so, killed the rogue sectoid going through the door - and two OTHER sectoids, who just so happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time! Quite a fluke shot.

[Zombie]

I wonder if a 2x3 item (like any Heavy weapon or corpse) can be stacked in the right leg slot of an alien. I have never seen this happen, but what would prevent the game from doing it?

Oops! I spoke too soon! Just today, I visited a Sectoid Terror Ship which I had shot down. Since I was using the PlayStation version of X-COM, I figured that it would be the same old grind once I mind-controlled the Sectoids one-by-one.

 

Boy, was I wrong. Low and behold, one Sectoid soldier had his Heavy Plasma gun stacked on the Heavy Plasma Clip on the right leg slot! Nothing was in his hands. The Heavy Plasma gun was so large that it actually looked like the lower part was on the ground!

 

I nearly passed out because I never saw this happen in the 9 years I've played X-COM. It's little things like this that keep my interest in the game alive and well. Just when you thought you saw it all, the game pulls something like this and surprises the heck out of you! Amazing.

[Bomb Bloke]

I've been fiddling with the data files, and I found something of vague interest. Aliens don't actually load clips into their guns.

 

The clips get placed in their weapons when they drop them (for instance, when the alien dies). I guess the same might happen when you mind control them, perhaps?

 

Which makes me wonder what happens if you remove all the ammo from an alien, and leave them with just the gun... I guess they might just keep on shooting.

[Zombie]

I just tested this out right now....

 

I made a Sectoid Soldier unload his Heavy Plasma. I then took away the clip that was in the weapon, and also the alien grenade on his leg. That left the Sectoid with a Heavy Plasma (unloaded) in his hands and a clip on his leg. Now I waited until the Sectoid was back to alien status. What happened? When it was the aliens turn, he loaded the weapon and shot my soldier!

 

I also removed the grenade and the 2 clips from the alien leaving him with only a Heavy Plasma gun. What happened? Absolutely nothing. The Sectoid soldier just stood there looking silly.

 

For the final test, I let the Sectoid keep his unloaded Heavy Plasma, and a clip on his leg. Now I waited until the Sectoid was back under alien control. I had my soldier shoot the Sectoid and then check whether his gun was loaded on the ground. Result: Clip and gun were separate from each other.

 

Are you sure about this Bomb Bloke? According to my tests, you are wrong on every count. Or is the very act of mind controlling the Sectoid changing the results?

[Bomb Bloke]

I'll detail where I got this info from...

 

I checked through NKF's notes that he posted for hatfarm concerning the obpos.dat file of a savegame. Then I wrote a program that scanned this file, and outputted every item, where it was, and what it was loaded into.

 

Had to mess around a bit to get it to work (the notes weren't exact ), but eventually I got it to go.

 

All X-Com units carried a gun, a clip, and one clip loaded into said gun.

 

All aliens carried a gun, a grenade, and two clips - neither of which were loaded into their gun. Their Heavy Plasmas were empty.

 

Any alien corpses (ie dead aliens) had a corpse item, a gun, a grenade, a clip, and a clip loaded into said gun.

 

Which gives me the impression that the game only loads the alien's guns if it thinks someone is going to LOOK at said guns.

 

Now, given that aliens can shoot you on your first turn, the guns are unloaded at that point, and your tests, it would seem they can fire so long as they are carrying ammo (as opposed to so long as it is in a gun). I also doubt they would bother to remove the ammo from their guns if it happens to be in there.

 

Can units load their weapons during the enemie's turn?

 

Is my memory foggy, or do I remember something about dead aliens yeilding full clips regardless of how many shots they fired? Does the same hold true if they fire loaded guns?

 

Perhaps a time unit test is in order. It takes a while to load a gun. It may be possible, with a mind probe, and some fodder test subjects, to see if the alien loads it's weapon.

[NKF]

Corpses with items in them... I think they're pointing to a copy of an earlier existing clip.

 

Aliens do indeed know how to load weapons during their turn. It's the same mechanism that allows them to load small launchers/blaster bombs (which are effectively 1-shot ammo clips).

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Which gives me the impression that the game only loads the alien's guns if it thinks someone is going to LOOK at said guns.

So wait a minute, you think the aliens' weapons are actually clip-free when you enter a game? How is the game going to know you are thinking of looking at the aliens inventory? That's like saying your automobile has no fuel, but when it senses you are going to look at the fuel gauge, it throws some in there to move the needle! Seems a little counter-intuitive to me!

 

Maybe it looks for Psi-Amps on board your transport ship to determine whether to load an aliens weapon or not. Then again, what says you are actually going to equip your troops with the Psi-Amps? Who says that your troops will even use the Psi-Amps during combat? Hell, half the time I can't answer this, so how is the computer going to read my mind?

 

I have used Mind Control techniques for a long time to combat the aliens. Every time I mind-controlled aliens on the first round of a mission, their weapons are loaded.

 

----------

 

Ok, your other question is: "Can units load their weapons during the enemie's turn?

"

Look at my previous post, I mentioned this right at the top:

 

Zombie Posted on Nov 10 2004, 01:01 AM

I made a Sectoid Soldier unload his Heavy Plasma. I then took away the clip that was in the weapon, and also the alien grenade on his leg. That left the Sectoid with a Heavy Plasma (unloaded) in his hands and a clip on his leg. Now I waited until the Sectoid was back to alien status. What happened? When it was the aliens turn, he loaded the weapon and shot my soldier!

 

Like NKF mentioned in his post, aliens will reload 1 shot weapons like the Blaster Launcher and Small Launcher. Anyhow, why would the aliens carry spare clips/bombs along with them if they couldn't reload the weapon with the extras? They are not just for show, or to add weight. They serve a purpose. If the aliens run out of ammo in their gun, they always carry more on their leg! You ever see the same alien shooting off Stun Bombs or Blaster Bombs? I always do. Aliens know how to reload a weapon, and more importantly, they will reload if they run out!

[Bomb Bloke]

Yes, I know they can load guns. I didn't say during their turn, I during the enemies turn! THEIR enemies turn! That is, YOUR turn. I admit it was a weird way of phrasing it.

 

If they can't, then I tell you now, I'm sure those guys can fire without loading their weapons!

 

How does the game know you're going to look at their inventory? Well, if you take psychic control of a unit, for example, or kill it. The items then become available for examination.

 

Even though the programmers did not intend you to look at the inventory, you can see the ammo amount in an alien weapon.

 

Tonight I will perform some tests, and see what's what.

 

All I know is, if you start a game and save it, then the alien guns are unloaded. Either that, or alien weapon objects are not treated the same as X-Com weapon objects... Though I highely doubt that.

 

Was I correct about aliens always dropping full clips?

[Zombie]

All I know is, if you start a game and save it, then the alien guns are unloaded. Either that, or alien weapon objects are not treated the same as X-Com weapon objects... Though I highely doubt that.

Yeah, that was a strange way of wording the question. But I understand you now Bomb Bloke.

 

What happens when you initially start a mission? X-COM's turn is ALWAYS first, followed by the aliens turn. If you save your game right away, it's X-COM's turn, so the game didn't really get to the aliens yet. Maybe, just maybe, the game initializes the aliens equipment after X-COM's turn ends. Therefore, all their equipment is pre-assigned, but not set up. Try this: save the game after the aliens first turn is over. Then check to see if their weapons are loaded. I'll wager to bet they are!

 

I'm still having a hard time believing that the aliens weapons are unloaded initially. See, they can reaction fire during X-COM's first round as normal. If you MC them you will also see a clip in the weapon. The clip always seems to be loaded in the aliens gun. Maybe the act of looking at the aliens inventory automatically invokes the alien to have his equipment initialized. Who knows.

[Bomb Bloke]

Ok, I ran some tests, and found out that it was just a problem with my code.

 

As it turns out, alien equipment is initialized by the game as being in their inventories. X-Com equipment, if loaded into another item, starts off as being carried by NO ONE. That is to say, if you changed the info that said a clip was in a gun, the clip would magically appear on the ground back in the craft. (I think).

 

Due to the order of my IF...THEN statements, X-Com equipment displayed correctly, but alien equipment did not.

 

In other news, you may remember that mission info logging program I was talking about a while back? Given a week or two, it should be up and running. Catch is, it won't work with CE. Ah well.