PayPal, eBay & Skype

[Bomb Bloke]

More of a rant here then anything else. Fair warning.

 

Ok, so years ago little BB logged onto eBay for the first time and bought something. Can't even remember what it was now, mighta been the gear need to hack his GameCube; not sure. Anyway, he payed via netbanking, took him five minutes, and he thought it was good fun.

 

So over the years he went back and picked up other bits and pieces. Obscure things, stuff that didn't sell in his small hometown hidden down in Tasmania... Or if they did, not for the prices he could get online.

 

Now, increasingly he found that some items could only be purchased via PayPal. Eventually he took the plunge and opened an account. Painless enough, even if it did take well over a week to get things up and running, and took him an extra week every time he needed to add some funds. He made sure to keep it well stocked with credit ahead of time, and then tried to use it as little as possible.

 

Fast forward to... Yesterday. I finally decided to jump onto the VOIP bandwagon (which I'd already been using in the form of PC to PC chat) so I could call me poor sick mother in hospital without racking up a phone bill. Of course, I realised that in order to call to a landline I'd need to pay, so with my PalPay login at hand I went out in search of a provider.

 

First port of call: Skype. Other users on the net had bugged me into using it for online chat, so I already had an account and so forth. I check up on the calling rates, found them a little confusing (what's an "Australian Ex Territory"?), but figured I'd give it a go. Went to their payment screens and tried to use PayPal.

 

As I selected the option and entered my login, I noticed this friendly little reminder on the left:

 

Why use PayPal?

 

- You can use your credit card without exposing your card number to the seller.

 

- You can speed through checkout without stopping to enter your card number or address.

 

Yes indeed, one of the few things I liked about PayPal was that no credit card was required. Which brings us to the next screen, in angry red lettering:

 

To complete your purchase, please add a new credit card or debit card.

 

Eh?

 

After clicking back and forth a bit, a browse through the support docs, and finally a trip to Google, I came to the Skype forums and the crux of the matter: Using PayPal for Skype requires you to enter a card number "for identification purposes and backup funding if need be".

 

Well, for starters, I'm already PayPal verified so they can shove their identity claim where the sun does not shine. As for "backup funding" with a prepaid service? I'm not sure what they're smoking.

 

Anyway, after reading through about six months worth of vagually amusing angry posts (which made me grateful that I'm no longer on the helldesk), it became clear that the change was made some time ago (but with no prior announcement), PayPal and Skype are essentially the same company, but neither will accept responsibility for the change.

 

Well, fine, no real skin off my nose, just an oddity of big business I supposed. I went off and found some other company to deal with.

 

Fast forward to... Today. I log onto eBay as I occasionally do, to check if the few remaining oddities I'm searching for have turned up yet (did you know that there was a Bomberman 64 2? I didn't until it randomly turned up on eBay, it was never actually sold in this part of the world).

 

I check my messages, and low and behold, there's a notice that eBay's "attempt to protect consumers" will be put off until next month. Righto. But on closer inspection, I see what those changes are: They aim to abolish all forms of eBay payment in Australia other then PayPal!!

 

Well, it just so happens they'd've done this already if our ACCC (fair trade watchdog) hadn't stepped in and said no. A browse through the eBay forums turned up petitions and talk of emails to the ACCC, bulk protest in short. It appears they won't be allowed to go through with this legally, though they're trying to get the decision reversed common opinion is that they have the proverbial snowball's chance.

 

And so it should be! Consumer protection? I for one won't be a consumer if they remove my preferred methods of doing business, even though technically I would still be able to work with eBay it would cost me more time, trouble, and cash. I'm quite happy to risk doing business with an eBay seller who has spent years making other customers happy, and I'm also quite happy to suck it up if I make the mistake of sending cash to someone with a poor selling record!

 

(Though to my understanding, this won't actually change that much with a "PayPal only" scheme).

 

PayPal/eBay/Skype are all essentially the same company. For who knows what reason they're trying to get rid of their "customers" in the name of, I can only imagine, profits. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I've known for a long time that these companies aren't essentially "likeable", but I figured so long as I only dealt with small amounts of cash I'd never be seriously ticked off if the worst did happen.

 

Now it's starting to feel like they're going out of their way to make sure people get ticked off anyway.

 

So, uh, anyone know of a good world wide auction site which stocks just about everything?

[Space Voyager]

I just know that for buying at game.co.uk I wasn0t able to use PayPal. The reason for giving them my CC number was that SotS:CE wasn't even available in Slovenia and they are one of the rare stores that ship here as well.

 

Anyway, I am genuinly dissapointed with some fo the on-line stores. I was able to purchase tires from Germany without giving any number to anybody, but I was required to transfer the money via e-banking to their account up-front.

I was unable to buy a game even when I would be ready to sent them money up-front. They want a credit card or no deal. NUTS.

[Kernel]

I used to have a PayPal account, until they canceled it due to "unusual activity on the account". Ok, so I hadn't used it for about 3 months but how do they call that "unusual activity"?

 

After various e-mails I basicaly got told that the only way to reactivate my account was to call a premium rate phone number and give them various personal details, including my CC card number. My response to them basicaly began with the letter F and ended with Off. Not had an account with them since and I don't plan to have one any time in the future.

[Zombie]

@ Kernel: Sounds like you got a spoofed email from someone claiming to be PayPal. I think I got one of those emails recently as well, but ignored it. My account is still good btw.

 

@ Bomb Bloke: there are two types of PayPal accounts, a bank account and a credit card account. Just because you have a bank account, it doesn't necessarily mean that you yourself are verified. True, a credit card isn't a form of identification, but it's close enough for some. Also, a credit card allows a company to charge you and get it's money no matter what. It allows the company to run a quick credit check on you as well: if the card is maxed, the transaction will fail to go through. A bank account transaction is considered like a check, you can write it and submit it for payment, but the check can still bounce. The company will then be screwed twice: the goods are gone and the payment failed too. So some companies are requiring a PayPal account verified with a credit card to be on the safe side. It's sad, but that's the way things run these days.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

I could understand the need to ensure a source of funds for a billed service, but I was attempting to purchase "prepaid credits". Once these run out the service is supposed to stop, whether it's possible to charge my account for more or not.

 

Hence the only need to ask for a card is for identification; However, to my understanding it is illegal for a company to do this in some countries. I have no idea if that applies here (Australia) but it's still rather insulting given that I've already gone through PayPal's verification process (involving them sending me mail etc).

 

It's also somewhat odd that both PayPal and Skype each claim it is the other company that requires the credit card, and neither offers a valid reason other then the two (in my opinion invalid) reasons above.

[Kernel]

@ Kernel: Sounds like you got a spoofed email from someone claiming to be PayPal. I think I got one of those emails recently as well, but ignored it. My account is still good btw.

 

Nah, it was definatly paypal. I got the original message when I tried to log onto my account. It basicaly told be my account was deactivated due to unusual activity and told me to fill out an online form to reactivate it. I did that and then it told me to phone them to authorise the account. That's what started the e-mail coversation with them.

[FullAuto]

Currently going through eBay/PayPal troubles myself. Jesus, what a carry-on over absolutely sod-all. You'd think I was laundering billions in drug money.

 

Yes, that's right, PayPal. You've made it too bothersome for me to wash my bales of currency through sheer bureaucracy. Well done. On the other hand, you will no longer cadge 3.4% (or whatever your percentage is, I don't care) of the monies I usually spend on eBay, because I won't be using you any more.

[Knan]

Heh. Their insisting on "we're not a bank, um, eh, we just, um, handle people's money" is interesting in that regard. Thus your money probably vaporizes outright when they implode one day.

 

(Though apparently, in Europe they finally have become a proper bank last year... in Luxembourg. Not suspicious at all.)

[NKF]

I finally decided to get a Paypal account just so I can make the occasional purchase that I can't get done via my credit card (well, technically a pre-paid Visa - so there's no way of spending money that I don't have).

 

I went through a series of e-mails and whatnot to get my account activated and my card verified. All's fine, but now I'm stumped as to what to do. The first thing I wanted to do was load my account via my Visa so that I can go and buy stuff. I can't seem to figure out how to do this without going to the US and opening a bank account there - plus the help section doesn't seem particularly helpful in this respect.

 

Am I going about it the wrong way?

 

- NKF

[Slaughter]

It's like a normal Visa purchase through Paypal when I use it...

[Pete]

(Though apparently, in Europe they finally have become a proper bank last year... in Luxembourg. Not suspicious at all.)

 

Amazon UK and play.com are both Lxembourg based. It's a tax thing they pay less or something. Just marginally less suspicious than handling all your money through the Cayman Islands or storing stolen gold from WWII in a swiss bank vault.

 

You'll find they're all limited companies too so if they vapourise one day it's not their fault and they can reopen the enxt day under a different (or if they're smart enough even possibly the same) name.

 

I put off getting a PayPal account for a long while. Needless to say I need one now for various reasons, but as soon as I hit

[NKF]

It's like a normal Visa purchase through Paypal when I use it...

 

Hmm. Judging from what I've managed to extract from their help files, if my Paypal balance is $0 or close to that, then it'll draw the funds through the other fund sources I've supplied (i.e. the Visa). In that case they're just acting as the intermediary and not actually holding any funds.

 

So if they do go bust or freeze my account for lack of use, they won't be hanging on to any of my cash. But I guess I'll suffer from multiple currency conversion charges from my card and them every time I use Paypal.

 

Think I might try their help desk. Want to be sure rather than sorry.

 

- NKF