Chryssalids? Scary?

[sluissa]

Does the actual chryssalid "bite" cause damage that might cause fatal wounds?

[Blehm 98]

NKF, as soon as i get xcom working i'll try and test it out on a chrysallid mission

 

the Chrysallid bite... Actually, good point there, because it would, the chrysallid attack is VERY innacurate, they attack 10+ times usually

[Zombie]

Okay, I did some testing on Zombies (not myself mind you, the alien variety).

 

According to my tests on the CE version, aliens cannot get fatal wounds by just shooting at them. I tried everything I could think of, but no luck.

 

However, try Mind Controlling an alien, and then shoot at it multiple times with a low-powered weapon like a rifle or pistol. What happens? It will get fatal wounds! Here is a screenie if you don't believe me:

 

 

Apparently, once you MC an alien, it takes on some of the traits as a normal soldier does (such as fatal wounds). It reverts back to alien status after one round though. And as you can see from my screenshot, Zombies can take stun damage too! This includes both regular Zombies and MC'd Zombies. Granted, you cannot stun them via the Stun Rods or Stun Bombs, but normal weapons impart some level of stun along with the damage.

 

I'll do some more tests on this when I get some time.

 

- Zombie

[Blehm 98]

I guess alien tags have fatal wounds deactivated

it also looks as if that zombie is stunned

what happens if it is stunned before it hatches?

[Zombie]

I guess alien tags have fatal wounds deactivated

it also looks as if that zombie is stunned

what happens if it is stunned before it hatches?

It does indeed look like the fatal wounds tag doesn't work for the aliens. To make sure, I'm going to check this on a previously MC'd civilian. Since they switch to alien status after being mind controlled, they theoretically should not get fatal wounds. Don't know about normal civies. Might as well check this too!

 

Ah, the Zombie in my screenie is not stunned. But it is teetering near the edge. And the only way to impart more stun damage would be to shoot it again. Since it only has 15 for health, it would be almost impossible without a normal pistol. Must remember to bring those along on missions.

 

- Zombie

[Blehm 98]

hmmmmmm

what weapon would you use though? the only one i can think of it pistol, but even that will usually kill a civilian although i have seen civilians take heavy plasmas

i don't remember what happened later, i might have blown him up

i doubt civilians have fatal wounds tags

 

Also, you need to check to see if aliens take damage from having fatal wounds or if it just shows them

[Zombie]

i doubt civilians have fatal wounds tags

 

Also, you need to check to see if aliens take damage from having fatal wounds or if it just shows them

Civilians probably don't get fatal wounds. Even a mind controlled civie is considered alien, so therefore it definately shouldn't get them either.

 

Aliens do take damage from fatal wounds. An alien mortally wounded while under X-COM control will take on damage after it returns back to alien status. It will even die from them. Zombies are a little strange, however. I'm still testing them out.

 

- Zombie

[Blehm 98]

if you mind control a zombie, and mind control another zombie, give one fatal wounds and the other without any, then stun them both, you should see what happens

[Zombie]

Okay, here are the results of my tests with fatal wounds:

 

X-COM controlled Civilian: Can get fatal wounds.

X-COM controlled aliens: Can get fatal wounds.

Normal Civilians: Cannot get fatal wounds.

Normal aliens: Cannot get fatal wounds.

"Alien" Civilians: Cannot get fatal wounds.

 

An "Alien" Civilian is a civie which was previously Mind-Controlled by X-COM forces, but was left untouched afterwards. Every round after the initial control, the civie is considered alien.

 

- Zombie

[Blehm 98]

what happens if say you were to somehow mind control a civilian and stun it before it was alien? Whos loss would it be?

[Zombie]

For the answer to that question blehm, look at the Strange things in X-COM thread. Specifically, this post. In a nutshell, anytime you mess with a civies mind, they disappear from the end-of mission report. If you had 10 civies, and MC'd one before the mission ended, the final screen would show 9 civies saved. And when I say "disappear", I mean it: the mission report acts as if that civilian never existed. Therefore no points are awarded for this action.

 

Back on topic now.

My tests show that only MC'd Zombies can get fatal wounds. Normal run-of-the-mill Zombies cannot. I suspect that Danial's game didn't involve Psionics. I'm left to conclude that the fatal wounds theory cannot answer the question of Chryssalids hatching from Zombies without help. Oh, well. It was a good idea.

 

This was mentioned before in numerous places on this website, but Incendiary rounds really will kill a Zombie outright, without the Chryssalid intermediary forming. This is an important point to remember because Chryssalids are inherently more dangerous than a stupid Zombie. If you are unable to kill the newly hatched Chryssalid, you are going to be in a world of trouble during the aliens turn. So bring along those Incendiary shells/rockets on Snakeman terror missions.

 

- Zombie

[Blehm 98]

chrysallids are also extremely sensitive to fire, i guess their crab-like body is very sensitive to being cooked...

 

Zombie, if you ever see a zombie up close, you'll be scared, i've had them kill three men, die, then have the chrysallid kill another 2, zombies are no fun once they get up close

[Jasonred]

NKF, as soon as i get xcom working i'll try and test it out on a chrysallid mission

 

the Chrysallid bite...  Actually, good point there, because it would, the chrysallid attack is VERY innacurate, they attack 10+ times usually

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Isn't it just one long bite animation? I've never had a Chrysallid actually miss and leave a soldier unzombified after an attack, so that was my assumption. Also, I have never had it attack just once yet succeed on the first attempt. Hence, my conclusion was that it just does one or two LONG attacks.

[Blehm 98]

listen to the sound of a chrysallid attacking

it ends normally, but at the beginning it plays the EXACTLY same sound over and over again until the chrysallid hits, because i think melee weapons require firing accuracy to use accurately, but the chrysallids attack is extremely low Tu cost. if you noticed, melee units turn around to the oppossite direction for every reaction shot fired at them, missed or hit. I have also seen them run up next to you, then run away, and i'm thinking that the game does calculations to see if it can do enough attacks to guarenty(sp? forgot how to spell it completely) at least one successfull one, and if it doesnt' it decides to run away

 

I also see the attack animation repeating over and over again

[Zombie]

Jasonred, blehm: read this post I made in the Game Data, ... from the OSG thread. I know, it's long and boring, but it answers tons of questions.

 

First, Superhuman Chryssalids can only attack 9 times. Lower skill levels = fewer attacks. On beginner, the Chryssalid can only attack 7 times. The same goes for the other HTH aliens.

 

Second, the way I found out that HTH attacks always take 14 TU was to closely watch what a Chryssalid did during the aliens round. One time (on beginner), it tried to attack my soldier 6 times. All of the attacks failed.

 

Third, the base chance to hit for a beginner level Zombie is 67% (vs 88% for the Chryssalid). Since the Zombie only has 40 TU, you can always outrun it, and if you stay at least 7 tiles (28 TU) away it can never attack you. Chryssalids on the other hand, have 110 TU (on beginner). You need to stand at least 25 tiles away to guarantee it will not wage a HTH attack. Since X-COM agents can only see 19 tiles in any direction in full daylight, a Chryssalid can be almost anywhere on the map and still attack (and you would never see it coming). Tough buggers, those Chryssalids.

 

- Zombie

[Ethan]

ummm, I think aliens do get critical wounds, you will sometimes hear them die between turns. I haven't played Thief, but I think the chrysallid should've been #1. A monster that can make my pulse quicken in TURN BASED STRATEGY is a truly terrifying thing. 110 TU's and a guaranteed melee kill, damn.

[Hobbes]

Since X-COM agents can only see 19 tiles in any direction in full daylight, a Chryssalid can be almost anywhere on the map and still attack (and you would never see it coming). Tough buggers, those Chryssalids. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Little correction: the frontal field of vision can vary between 19/20 tiles (as in an arc), and on the line directly on front of the soldier it is 21 squares.

[Danial]

... and on the line directly on front of the soldier it is 21 squares.

Is that including or excluding the square the soldier is actually on?

 

Why is it that X-COM soldiers have such short sight? Do they all need glasses, or is the game simulating some sort of dense fog?

[Hobbes]

Is that including or excluding the square the soldier is actually on?

 

Why is it that X-COM soldiers have such short sight? Do they all need glasses, or is the game simulating some sort of dense fog?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excluding. It's both a positive and a negative thing that it is short. Negative because in reality you should be able to see the entire map and spot any aliens on sight. Positive because the aliens would spot you too, and it might prove tricky to maintain a soldier alive when 10 aliens are firing all across the map at him...

[Zombie]

Interesting. So 21 tiles straight ahead, and 20 or 19 tiles depending on the line of sight? Gee, I could have sworn that X-COM soldiers can only see 19 tiles straight ahead. Must remember to double-check this.

 

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Well, I have been trying to stun a Zombie with no success. Stun Bombs don't work, the Stun Rod doesn't even function, and NKF's fire/smoke stunning technique does not have any effect. Bummer. Still, Chryssalids are not immune to stun/smoke so knocking these creatures unconscious is possible.

 

- Zombie

[Hobbes]

Interesting. So 21 tiles straight ahead, and 20 or 19 tiles depending on the line of sight? Gee, I could have sworn that X-COM soldiers can only see 19 tiles straight ahead. Must remember to double-check this.

 

----------

 

Well, I have been trying to stun a Zombie with no success. Stun Bombs don't work, the Stun Rod doesn't even function, and NKF's fire/smoke stunning technique does not have any effect. Bummer. Still, Chryssalids are not immune to stun/smoke so knocking these creatures unconscious is possible. 

 

- Zombie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You'll notice it better if you only bring 1 soldier for a mission, then have him walk down a road on city. That is one reason why alien snipers can be so elusive. They watch you on that 21st square that they only can see and *bang*

[JellyfishGreen]

So I was editing the XCOM Wiki and I found myself typing "Weak against explosives, says the USG. Nu-uh, they're weak against AP, says NKF. Chryssalid Damage Modifiers: Fire-80%, Stun-90%, says the OSG. "

 

Who knows the Truth? What should we put in our Heavy Cannons?

 

Also, how much damage do Zombies do in HTH? Can you ignore them if you're wearing a power suit?

[NKF]

JFG, just to put it in context, AP is better if the AP and HE rounds are of near or equal damage values. So a high explosive that's spot on is bound to do better damage than an autocannon AP round, but the autocannon AP round is better than the HE round.

 

For those that want to give it a go: Find a Chryssalid and save the game. Use several soldiers with either autocannons or preferably heavy cannons shoot it with HE rounds until it's dead, then reload and repeat the process a few more times until you get a rough idea of how many shots are required. Then do this again with AP rounds.

 

From experience, the AP shells were much more effective than the HE shells (this was on superhuman, by the way). But that's only me.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

So I was editing the XCOM Wiki and I found myself typing "Weak against explosives, says the USG. Nu-uh, they're weak against AP, says NKF. Chryssalid Damage Modifiers: Fire-80%, Stun-90%, says the OSG. "

 

Who knows the Truth? What should we put in our Heavy Cannons?

Okay, assuming we are using the Heavy Cannon, the HC-AP shells have a listed damage of 56 and the HC-HE shells have a listed damage of 52. Because the Chryssalid is equally susceptible to AP and HE (100%), the calculation is rather easy. The range of damage the HC-AP shell will do is 0 to 112. For the HC-HE shells, the range is 26 to 78. Now, we have to remember one thing - the HE range falls within the AP range. But is it symmetrical?

 

The High Explosive shells are guaranteed to cause at least 26 points of damage. The AP shells do not have a guaranteed minimum. There is a range of 0 to 25 where the AP rounds do less damage than the HE rounds. The probability is 26/112*100 = 23.21%. On the other hand, HE shells can only deal a max of 78, while the AP could do up to 112. The probability that the AP shell will do more damage than the HE shell is 34/112*100 = 30.36%. To compare the probabilities, subtract the low from the high. The Armor piercing shells from a Heavy Cannon will do more damage than the HE shells 7.14% of the time.

 

But hold on. We are comparing apples to oranges. We should be comparing HC-AP shells that do 56 listed damage to HE shells of the same magnitude (56). Now things are much different. The AP data remains the same, but the range for the HE shell will be 28 to 84. Going through all those boring calculations again returns a probability of 0% that AP will out-perform HE (there is a 25% probability that the AP shell will do less damage than the HE, and a 25% probability that the AP shell will do more). Assuming the same damage, it is a crapshoot. Either ammo is appropriate. In fact, all of the following ammunition types are fine (assuming the same listed damage): AP, HE Laser and Plasma.

 

Also, how much damage do Zombies do in HTH? Can you ignore them if you're wearing a power suit?

The OSG lists that Zombies can do 84 damage. But my understanding of damage modifiers leads me to believe that the damage range is between 0 and 168 inclusive. The Power Suit has a max armor rating of 100 for the front plates. Assuming the Zombie attacks from the front, there is roughly a 40% chance that the Zombie will hurt your soldier. A Flying Suit reduces this to 34%. So don't go around taunting Zombies with soldiers wearing Power Suits. You might get hurt.

 

- Zombie

[JellyfishGreen]

Thanks. Can anyone verify Chryssies have the slight vulnerability to fire & stun listed in the OSG?