For Slaughter: AvP 2 is good. Watch it.

[Aralez]

O.K., they really learned from the terrible first part and delivered a really great movie this time. Clever Story, awesome action, good camera, good sounds and sfx: Wow!

 

Hope this helps you, Slaughter

[Azrael Strife]

Aralez> How good is it, compared to the movie "Aliens"? (the sequel to "Alien" and prequel to "Alien 3" and "Alien: Resurrection"), it's my fav Aliens movie ever, and from the looks of it, AvP2 looks like it can deliver what they've been promising.

[Pete]

I must be the only person who actually liked the first AvP Looking forward to the second one though if it's this good!

[Slaughter]

Good news Aralez, thanks for the heads up! I liked what I saw in the trailer, but has remained a very cautious optimist after the first train wreck. I'll go to the movies when it hits Norway this January!

 

@Pete: Sure you watched the same movie I did? The one with the girl fighting aliens with their own body parts together with a Predator? It can't possibly be that one...

[Slaughter]

Update: Hmm, just browsed through the comments at IMDB, and it is being thrashed. Now I'll make up my own mind, but it's rare to see so much angry feedback...

[Pete]

I think there's a few different views to be honest - die-hard fans of the comics who'll hate the films and folks like me who've only played the PC games and, whilst the PC games have better stories, think the films are alright.

 

Then there's these strange creatures who live under rocks and don't know what we're talking about

[Strong Bob]

I didn't mind the first AvP movie so much.

 

Sure you watched the same movie I did? The one with the girl fighting aliens with their own body parts together with a Predator?

 

You must not have seen the one we all saw. In AvP she used the Predator's weapons to fight them. (And only fought one, with a spear.) She just ran away, realistically, for the rest of the movie.

 

I plan to see Requiem tomorrow. I tend to be more forgiving of things like this, since the Alien and Predator movies never really had very good stories, and therefore not much to expect but huge action scenes.

[Matri]

Then there's these strange creatures who live under rocks and don't know what we're talking about

Hey! I live in pockets!

[Azrael Strife]

I didn't mind the first AvP movie so much.

 

 

 

You must not have seen the one we all saw. In AvP she used the Predator's weapons to fight them. (And only fought one, with a spear.) She just ran away, realistically, for the rest of the movie.

She uses an Alien's head as a shield and, if memory serves right, uses one's tail asa spearhead... I think you watched the same movie Pete saw and not the one the rest of us saw

 

I plan to see Requiem tomorrow. I tend to be more forgiving of things like this, since the Alien and Predator movies never really had very good stories, and therefore not much to expect but huge action scenes.

Watch Alien and Aliens, James Cameron did a master job with Aliens.

[Strong Bob]

I've seen the entire Alien and Predator series, short of the current crossover. They were good movies, but by no means were they good stories. I recall discussing this right here, back when this place was X-com.co.uk when the first AvP movie came out. The Alien movies were driven by action/horror. The same goes for the Predator movies. Unless they teamed up against the humans, the main appeal of a crossover needs to be action, otherwise you will not be left with much.

 

She uses an Alien's head as a shield and, if memory serves right, uses one's tail asa spearhead...

 

Actually, she just carries those around for a while. At no point in the movie did she ever use either item for it's intended purpose. (I'm guessing they were supposed to be trophies, not really weapons. They were not very practical for fighting, and the Predators tend to use the parts of their kills for aesthetic, not practical, purposes.) The spear she used to impale one of the aliens was a regular Predator spear.

 

It's possible they intended to use the head and tail for a fight scene at some point, but they wisely chose to edit it out. Leaving it up to expanded universe canon to fix it up, of course.

 

Beyond the one alien she killed, she was mostly running away. Even in the final battle, her only purpose was bait for the Alien Queen while the last Predator took her out. So I never really had much critique in that regard.

 

Things I did find wrong with it (Since it's clear we're on a bashing spree of the original, and I don't necessarily want to come off as a fanboy):

 

1 - The inclusion of guns on the human expedition. For one, there was no reason to bring guns on an archaelogical dig, especially in a largely unpopulated area as the Antarctic. For two... The guns never ever saw any use throughout the whole movie. Just go ahead and watch it again and you'll notice that hundreds of shots are fired, but no creature, aside from one facehugger, is ever tagged in even a non-lethal spot.

 

What on earth was the point in unrealistically giving the team guns? It couldn't have been a cheap excuse for shootouts in the movie, because there wasn't any.

 

2 - Aliens bleed acid. Though the acid potency seems to only work when convenient. Cutting off the tail of one alien resulted in a Predator's armblades desolving into nothing. However, when one Alien was impaled on a spear, it's blood was utterly harmless to the weapon, and the human it was hanging over. Simple disregard for established fantasy physics, but glaring enough.

 

3 - The movie used Comic Book canon for the AvP history. Now, I never read the comic... But as I recall, the Predator's self-destruct armband sets off an explosion that is quite devastating to literally everything. AvP: The Movie, claims that these explosions are why places such as Egypt had their populations dissappear. Now, I don't know if the comic explains this better... But wouldn't such explosions ensure that the buildings would blow up as well?

 

Wouldn't there be craters instead of ruins? Or did they just use a different type of explosive armband thousands of years ago?

 

4 - Antarctica is cold. The Predators (As evidenced in the first two Predator movies) can only survive in hot climate, such as a tropical jungle or the heat wave in L.A.

 

I'm guessing it was much hotter in Antarctica in AvP than in reality. Predators move about the snow with no problems at all. Not only that, but the main human character was able to walk around in a thin sweater at the end without so much as a shiver, whereas in the beginning, people were bundled up with furs and still complained about the cold.

 

5 - The ending. Seriously... I don't care how ritualistic you are. Why didn't any of them check the corpse for alien infestation? If they've been fighting the aliens for so long, wouldn't something like that be expected?

 

My theory is, if you don't like something, you can find 101 things wrong with it, no matter what it is. But if you enjoy it, then all those 101 things instantly become forgivable. I think the original AvP movie was the worst out of both series, possessing crappy storylines, physics, and characters. But most of us just wanted to see Aliens and Predators fighting, and that's what we got. So therefore, I think it's an okay movie. Not bad, but certainly nothing wonderful

[baby arm]

Very confident of much suckitude, but I'll have to see it regardless. Any movie featuring those awful, screeching creatures is automatically a must see for me. Plus, the fact that Will Smith didn't completely ruin I Am Legend gives me some (probably misplaced) hope for Hollywood.

[Strong Bob]

I went to see AvP:R, and here is my opinion.

 

I like the original AvP a lot better.

 

Hmn, I will wait for other people to see it and make their opinions known before I explain what exactly I disliked about the movie. But I will say this: The whole damn time I felt like I was watching an amateur fan film that happened to have a high budget. The fact that the movie is only 87 minutes long didn't help.

[Space Voyager]

Judging from the reviews I've seen the AvP:R the movie must suck terribly from a movie-art side. As did the first one (my opinion). That said, I was NOT sorry for seeing AvP at all. I went to see it for some cool alien vs. predator action and I got it just fine. Not all movies are made to be called The piano 2, meaning artistic and boring.

 

So I'm going to see AvP:R and enjoy it without a doubt.

[Space Voyager]

Ok, the beginning sucks. It just has no explanation possible. There are more bad calls during the movie.

 

BUT once you stop bugging yourself over this, AvP:R is a good action movie. I actually expected far less. Definitely worth your time.

[Strong Bob]

Ok, the beginning sucks.

 

Really? I thought the beginning was the only good part... What did you think was unexplainable?

[Azrael Strife]

Given what I've read and heard about the movie, I've decided not to waste any money on watching it on the cinema, will wait for DVD release and rent it (alternatively, download it).

I'm highly detailist (sp?) and I don't tolerate idiotic plot/historical incoherencies that are so obvious that a 10 year old can spot them (*cough* a facehugger somehow crept into the dropship and then into the Sulaco in Alien3??? yeah, right!!), reason why I hated Alien 3 as stated, Alien: Resurrection was inevitable flawed by the fact that Alien 3 could not have happened (also changed Alien characteristic screeches by bear-like growls, which annoyed me, but those can be somehow explained by the fact that they were not "natural" aliens but came from a mutated Queen), and AvP felt like I was watching a computer game (the Predator grabs an Alien by the leg/tail and starts swinging it around, even breaking a wall... that sucked), though it was enjoyable (though the MASSIVE alien infestation they show makes no sense, there must have been thousands of aliens climbing that pyramid, how could an infestation get so out of hand before the Predators acted? it makes no sense whatsoever, not to mention the lack of craters from the huge Predator explosion, also the pyramid in antartica was kinda strange, but I don't remember that much about that bit of the movie so I won't talk...).

 

As a semi-related note, I was looking over Rotten Tomatoes today, and was impressed but not surprised that Aliens got a 100% (all positive reviews!!), while Alien 3 got a 32% , Alien a 97% and Alien Resurrection a 53%. AvP got a 22%, AvPRequiem got a 15% so far.

Of course I don't guide myself by critics, I'll always form an opinion of my own, but I really agree with the scores (except AvP-R, haven't watched it yet, but will soon!)

[Space Voyager]

Really? I thought the beginning was the only good part... What did you think was unexplainable?

 

 

1) It's a huge coincident that it all happened exactly when they reached Earth.

 

2) They carry an infected member of the clan. For a race that has been hunting xenomorphs for what... centuries, more?... it's hard to understand how they didn't know about it. And the facehugger is on the victim for quite some time after all. If they DID know it (and wanted a crossbreed to be hatched) than it seems completely nuts to have the guy out in the open.

 

3) The predalien turned from a chestburster into a drone in a matter of seconds. Or somebody would have noticed a fella with a freaking hole in his chest. It's a small ship with a crew of 3, not a city. Also this far the victims were always awake and screaming like hell when the burst happened, this guy slept through the whole thing.

 

4) Two shots and the ships crashes. Ok, perhaps we missed some fight.

 

5) Who was the pilot during the flight? The ship crashed with a surgical precision considering it was a crash landing. Otherwise it would be expected to crash at like 90 degrees angle. And become a pancake.

 

6) Even with the correct angle nobody and nothing should have survived the crash. But all the facehuggers and predalien walk out as if nothing happened. At least the predator was a bit shaken, but he survived as well. And made the call. We know for both species that they are far from indestructible.

 

ETC.

 

 

Edit by BB: Showing off the spoiler tags, just because I can. Select text to view.

[Strong Bob]

 

 

1) It's a huge coincident that it all happened exactly when they reached Earth.

 

2) They carry an infected member of the clan. For a race that has been hunting xenomorphs for what... centuries, more?... it's hard to understand how they didn't know about it. And the facehugger is on the victim for quite some time after all. If they DID know it (and wanted a crossbreed to be hatched) than it seems completely nuts to have the guy out in the open.

 

3) The predalien turned from a chestburster into a drone in a matter of seconds. Or somebody would have noticed a fella with a freaking hole in his chest. It's a small ship with a crew of 3, not a city. Also this far the victims were always awake and screaming like hell when the burst happened, this guy slept through the whole thing.

 

4) Two shots and the ships crashes. Ok, perhaps we missed some fight.

 

5) Who was the pilot during the flight? The ship crashed with a surgical precision considering it was a crash landing. Otherwise it would be expected to crash at like 90 degrees angle. And become a pancake.

 

6) Even with the correct angle nobody and nothing should have survived the crash. But all the facehuggers and predalien walk out as if nothing happened. At least the predator was a bit shaken, but he survived as well. And made the call. We know for both species that they are far from indestructible.

 

ETC.

 

 

Edit by BB: Showing off the spoiler tags, just because I can. Select text to view.

 

1- I don't understand the logic of this one at all... Did you see the ending of AvP 1? Because that explains this perfectly.

 

2- This also doesn't make sense. They brought the body aboard believing it to be dead, and gave it a ritualistic passing. They would've needed to scan the body to find the parasite first... Maybe they should've thought of that, but I don't know if they would've expected one of their own to be so careless as to get infected.

 

3- Okay, it's clear you did not see AvP 1. The Predator you see on that table is, in fact, quite dead. A gaping hole in the chest is quite normal for a Predator that was killed in the manner he was, and being dead means you won't be screaming much... That event was perfectly realistic

 

4- Yeah, I figure there was more to it than a minor hull breach. That shouldn't be a problem.

 

5- I am guessing the pilot was the the one Predator that survived the crash. Either that or it was one of the many other Predators. At the end of AvP 1, it showed a lot more than 3 Predators on board. I am assuming all were killed either in the crash or by the hybrid.

 

6- And you make the call assuming what? Simply moving at speeds fast enough for planetary travel would incur the same inertia physics that would destroy everything on board. What is the difference between slowing down nigh instantaneously from light speed compared to falling from low orbit? The latter has a substantially lower impact for those aboard. This is choosy nitpicking.

 

 

To be honest, I've analyzed this movie up and down with a few friends. We're all convinced that the beginning was pulled off very well. It seems you were at a loss because the beginning of AvP 2 takes place DIRECTLY after AvP 1, and you will be confused if you did not see the ending.

 

In fact, the whole movie is pretty realistic, it's just very dull. I would say pretty much all of the original Predator and Alien movies have more unrealistic events than AvP 2.

[Azrael Strife]

In fact, the whole movie is pretty realistic, it's just very dull. I would say pretty much all of the original Predator and Alien movies have more unrealistic events than AvP 2.

What's so unrealistic about Alien and Aliens?

[Strong Bob]

What's so unrealistic about Alien and Aliens?

Not much compared to the rest. Although I do remember analyzing those movies some years ago and established a few scenes in Alien that were unrealistic, and a few more in number in Aliens. I can't recall what those scenes were, unfortunately (I will need to watch them again to jog my memory). They were not bad movies, though. Just because a movie is unrealistic does not mean it is no good.

 

I just like analyzing movies for realism. It usually doesn't affect my enjoyment of the movie unless it's severe enough.

[Space Voyager]

 

I did see AvP1, I just forgot much about it. Ok, let's say the coincidence of Earth proximity is solved. I thought they were here for another hunt in the pyramid.

 

The rest remains weird.

 

They are fully aware of the xenomorph danger, they should scan all, dead or alive. Thinking it can't happen doesn't seem like something a race of xenomorph-hunters would do.

 

This is the first occurance of an alien being hatched from a dead carrier. They felt it would do nicely so they added this "feature". It makes all the rest that were left alive seem pretty stupid. Why do that if a dead carrier can't run away and be "cured"?

 

The predator surviving the crash was fighting the predalien. Hardly a time for piloting.

 

Also I wouldn't compare the multiple light speed (Wolf came from god-knows-where in a very short time) fast travel with normal one. For the first one you would (it seems...) need a shift in dimensions or whatever you call it so the acceleration/deceleration would not even need to be felt. When you travel in normal world it most definitely would be. The fall would splatter EVERYTHING living in that ship even if the ship itself was strong enough to take it.

Any different explanation would make Predators and Aliens impenetrable supergods. Which they aren't.

 

 

[Strong Bob]

I did see AvP1, I just forgot much about it. Ok, let's say the coincidence of Earth proximity is solved. I thought they were here for another hunt in the pyramid.

 

The rest remains weird.

 

They are fully aware of the xenomorph danger, they should scan all, dead or alive. Thinking it can't happen doesn't seem like something a race of xenomorph-hunters would do.

 

This is the first occurance of an alien being hatched from a dead carrier. They felt it would do nicely so they added this "feature". It makes all the rest that were left alive seem pretty stupid. Why do that if a dead carrier can't run away and be "cured"?

 

The predator surviving the crash was fighting the predalien. Hardly a time for piloting.

 

Also I wouldn't compare the multiple light speed (Wolf came from god-knows-where in a very short time) fast travel with normal one. For the first one you would (it seems...) need a shift in dimensions or whatever you call it so the acceleration/deceleration would not even need to be felt. When you travel in normal world it most definitely would be. The fall would splatter EVERYTHING living in that ship even if the ship itself was strong enough to take it.

Any different explanation would make Predators and Aliens impenetrable supergods. Which they aren't.

 

 

 

Admittedly, it is odd that they did not scan the dead body for the alien. However, I consider that to be more of a fault of the first movie. That movie ended with the hybrid bursting from the dead body.

 

I don't see any problem with an alien bursting from a dead body. I theorize that live hosts are required moreso as a means of making sure the host's flesh is fresh enough for consumption. The Predator is more resilient and seems to have a substantial amount of "meat" in comparison to humans. Most of the alien's incubation had 3/4 of the original movie to take place in a live host, anyways. Likely, it burst at that time because it sensed the body had gone cold and inactive.

 

If the pilot was not the Predator that sent the signal, it was probably one of the other dozen that appeared at the end of the first movie. Remember, there was more than three on board.

 

Also, accelerating and decelerating to and from the speed of light would demand a substantial amount of speed in normal space. (The speed of light would make matter become infinite, but low enough speeds would bring you right back into normal space.) Unless their ships did not accelerate or decelerate at all, in which case you go the Star Wars route of immediately shifting to light speed with no middle point.

 

Essentially, if one is going to bend the laws of physics by allowing matter to shift in and out of light speed without becoming energy, then you really can't complain about the physics of intertia being bent. After all, the ship in AvP 2 actually sustained very little damage, both inside and outside, from the crash. Yet a single plasma bolt ripped the hull to shreds right from the inside. (The Predator shoulder cannons seem to normally be stopped quite easily by flesh and bone, as well as walls in buildings.) This gives the impression that the ship was, in fact, quite fragile to begin with. Thus I would wager that the Predators employ some kind of intertial dampening, making it possible to crash onto planets, accelerate to faster-than-light speeds, and even launch themselves onto planets in pods moving fast enough to land from orbit in mere minutes without coming to harm.

 

Also, if we are to discuss the lack of physics involved, one should also wonder how the hell so many extra-terrastrial species can breathe the earth's atmosphere so easily despite evolving in dramatically different environments.

 

[Space Voyager]

Also, if we are to discuss the lack of physics involved, one should also wonder how the hell so many extra-terrastrial species can breathe the earth's atmosphere so easily despite evolving in dramatically different environments

 

 

We don't know in what environments they eveolved. Perhaps both come from Earth-like planets... We know nothing about their homeworlds except a short shot of Predator architecture.

 

About the speed of light etc.;

we more or less KNOW that matter can't be pushed faster than light (or reach it) under normal conditions. We also know that the predator needed to travel MANY times the speed of light. The nearest star is 4,2 lightYEARS away and he seemed to arrive in matter of... days at the most. Considering he probably doesn't live in Beta Centaury star system his journey must have been longer.

So this SF movie must have "an idea" of faster-than-light travel that has nothing to do with normal inertia, acceleration or deceleration. Probably some kind of tachyon propulsion that would require a change of state of matter, no change of speed in normal space.

Traveling in normal space has a completely normal effect on both alien and predator, a bullet traveling through space makes a hole in them. Also their pods don't just fall, they use brakes before hitting the ground. So I don't think they are that special at all.

 

What it all points to is that everything in that spaceship (probably the ship itself, too) should be a pancake, a greenish acid pancake.

 

I know you don't see a problem with a chestburster coming out of a dead body. I do however. This has no grounds in any of the former movies, they just thought about it because it was convenient.

 

Also we haven't resolved the growth rate of the predalien. You may remember how long it took for an alien to grow in Alien1 etc, you can also see a chestburster in AvP2 although the burst couldn't have happened a minute ago. So nobody noticing the hatching is quite unbelievable.

 

 

 

This is one dark debate...

[Strong Bob]

We don't know in what environments they eveolved. Perhaps both come from Earth-like planets... We know nothing about their homeworlds except a short shot of Predator architecture.

 

About the speed of light etc.;

we more or less KNOW that matter can't be pushed faster than light (or reach it) under normal conditions. We also know that the predator needed to travel MANY times the speed of light. The nearest star is 4,2 lightYEARS away and he seemed to arrive in matter of... days at the most. Considering he probably doesn't live in Beta Centaury star system his journey must have been longer.

So this SF movie must have "an idea" of faster-than-light travel that has nothing to do with normal inertia, acceleration or deceleration. Probably some kind of tachyon propulsion that would require a change of state of matter, no change of speed in normal space.

Traveling in normal space has a completely normal effect on both alien and predator, a bullet traveling through space makes a hole in them. Also their pods don't just fall, they use brakes before hitting the ground. So I don't think they are that special at all.

 

What it all points to is that everything in that spaceship (probably the ship itself, too) should be a pancake, a greenish acid pancake.

 

I know you don't see a problem with a chestburster coming out of a dead body. I do however. This has no grounds in any of the former movies, they just thought about it because it was convenient.

 

Also we haven't resolved the growth rate of the predalien. You may remember how long it took for an alien to grow in Alien1 etc, you can also see a chestburster in AvP2 although the burst couldn't have happened a minute ago. So nobody noticing the hatching is quite unbelievable.

 

 

 

This is one dark debate...

 

 

Tachyon theory is something I studied a lot in my High School days, mostly out of confusion in how it is applied in Sci-fi. However, it wasn't until last year when I spoke to an actual university professor that the history of the theory became clear.

 

Essentially, tachyons can be put right up there with quantum realities, religious deities, and other such things. Merely theories that were "imagined" yet however make sense in how they can explain certain things, yet cannot be directly proven. (Even your link makes note of tachyon's imaginary properties.)

 

This brings me back to my original point in ignoring some physics in favor of imaginary physics. If you want to bring in tachyon speeds, or any form of faster-than-light travel, then you're moving into fields beyond the scopes of modern science. In which case, intertial dampening shouldn't be a problem.

 

If you see the rate at which the Predator troop pods drop, brakes be damned (I honestly do not recall seeing resisting thrusters, but that could mean I just didn't notice. So I cannot speak for how the brakes could even work.) the impact would at the very least cause severe skeletal fractures. This seems to support that somehow the Predator's can manipulate inertia on some level, though this is a loose one.

 

I'm really not sure how much further I can take things in that regard. To be honest, inertia has always been the greatest foe of science fiction, so I always find it strange when the concept is attacked, yet things such as "energy shields", "faster-than-light", and compact sources of infinite energy seem to go unnoticed. I consider all those concepts far more ridiculous than being able to crash an entire ship on a planet and still have survivors.

 

The chest burster coming from the dead body... Only one question. Did any of the former movies say that aliens couldn't burst from a dead body? I don't recall it ever happening. Otherwise it really isn't adding a feature at all, so much as expanding on the capabilities already present.

 

The growth of the hybrid is also easily explained. Although this one takes a bit more of a look at past Alien movies along with what the Predator's used for sensors in AvP 2.

 

You'll notice in prior Alien movies, the Aliens were extremely difficult to detect. Not having a heartbeat, no body heat, and being virtually unseen by anything except motion scanners. This makes it hard enough to find them electronically...

 

Visually, this gets worse. The black hue of the epidermis makes for perfect camoflauge in darkness. The Aliens also displayed extremely stealthy movements in all their movies. Sometimes moving quickly over long distances without anyone noticing. At night, they are virtually undetectable, and this goes the same for dim-lighted, close quarters, starships.

 

Now take this into consideration... The Predators are also highly stealthy creatures (Just not as much) and the Hybrid is combination of both worlds. Also, you will notice that the Predator's screening demands a specialized mode to see the Aliens, and traces of the Aliens, exclusively. Otherwise they blend in perfectly. (You see this in the fight at the beginning. The pursuiing Predator needs to switch into this mode to see the Hybrid. This happens again several times after the other Predator lands on Earth. You see he needs to inject the facehugger sample into his armband to scan for the alien DNA signatures, and that is the only way he is able to locate them.)

 

It is of no surprise to me that the hybrid would be able to hide for any amount of time, until it reached maturity. The corpse on the altar shouldn't be much of a problem either... The other Predators looked very busy with other tasks, that I would've found it unrealistic for any of them to be randomly checking the body. Now, if the body was laying there for days on end... That would be suspicious.

 

 

You know what? After this debate here, the movie doesn't seem as bad as I thought. Perhaps I should go see it again.

[Space Voyager]

I found the movie good, as I said at the beggining of the debate... I am thinking about buying a DVD.

 

About tachyons; their similarity with religions deities ends with the fact that they can't be proven nor disproven (although for tachyons this may change). It is a concept that stems from the fact that the special relativity theory prohibits speeds greater than light speed - unless you have a particle that always moves faster than light. The our quite Earthly theory allows for such particles THEORETICALLY.

 

So you can say that tachyons are much more "down to Earth" theory than innertial dampening that we have no theoretical ground for.

 

That said, I'm definitely not saying tachyons do exist nor that predators use such a propulsion. I said that with such a propultion there would be no problem with speed greater than light or with innertia. It would be a mere change of state of matter from normal to tachyon. However that could be achieved...

 

All in all, you don't see a problem with the beggining and I do. I have no problem with that.

 

 

I don't know how I missed this one; the signal was received seemingly in an instant. This is also not explained. There is no mechanical device used to transport the message so we are left with little else than a sort of EM waves - that travel at the speed of light...