Is Fallout 3 on the way?

[KoMik]

I think it brings some 'happy days' ... If it's true, I will right a way take my radiometer from the closet.

Damn, how I loved the FO2. It truly was a my cup of tea. Present day needs surreal games like that...

 

Basic link:

https://www.nma-fallout.com/

 

...What is the radiation situation? Always use prober eyes protection.

[Slaughter]

Yes, I think it is on the way, but not as I would like. Bethesda (Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion) will develop it, and it will be Oblivion in a Fallout setting as I understand it. The original development of Fallout 3 died with Black Isle under the name Van Buren.

 

Anyway, you can find most information available at the site you linked to here.

[Gimli]

Somehow, I don't like the idea of Bethesda developing Fallout 3. I didn't like Morrowind very much so I have doubts about this as well. However, I'll make my decision once the game is out.

[Zager]

Yes, I think it is on the way, but not as I would like. Bethesda (Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion) will develop it, and it will be Oblivion in a Fallout setting as I understand it.

 

What makes you think that? Fallout 3 is in the preproduction phase right now. It's only a memo on a computer somewhere, they won't have even begun design.

 

 

And I don't go to Fallout forums anymore. I can't stand the fans. It's like they want to be miserable. They're the worst group of fans in the world, there is absolutely no pleasing them.

[Krabjuice]

Why not be ultimatly pessimistic? Look at what happened to the Deus Ex fans.

[Gimli]

Is there an official forum for Fallout?

[KoMik]

Slaughter, that was the link what I was lookin'. I knew you could know something like that .

I just hoped that they are out and about with it and not just: "Maybe ... ömm ... maybe not".

 

About the fans:

It's pity that Fallout series have attracted guys/girls who sit in their one-room flat (wallpapered with

aluminium foil) and wait that "marvelous day when big bombs will hit the ground". Many years

dusty darkness is not something what I would wait. Maybe these fans are one reason to this toings

and froings.

 

I think Fallout 2 was a good made and funny game.

(comic-styled interfaces always make me feel home)

 

Thanks again. Don't press that red button!

[Zager]

Why not be ultimatly pessimistic? Look at what happened to the Deus Ex fans.

 

The core of what what I found good about Deus Ex, the debate on political and moral philosophy, was still present. Is it better for humans to be guided by an invisible society of self-elected elites, or do we put power in the hands of an AI which takes input from all citizens on its decisions? Is truth more important than order? Do the ends justify the means?

[Slaughter]

What makes you think that? Fallout 3 is in the preproduction phase right now. It's only a memo on a computer somewhere, they won't have even begun design.

I don't know... Either way, I do not believe Bethesda will go for turn-based. There is no definitive word either way that I know of, but I believe Bethesda will make a very different Fallout game. I could live with that, if I knew there were a proper sequel coming too, but that is not so.

 

If you check out this interview, it asks about turn-based.

 

Yes, of course we've heard many of the old-school fans regarding the view and combat resolution. What's viable today? Certainly turn-based combat limits your audience to a small number, but I do find that audiences will come if your game is good enough and the presentation is superb. Ultimately we'll do what we think will be the most fun.

I guess everyone will read different things out of a comment like that, but saying that turn-based limits the audience is misunderstood IMO. Both the successful Fallout games did use the turn-based combat system, and in my experience most fans feel that turn-based is a key component. If they intend to make a different game, can't they create their own post apocalyptic setting? As I said before, nothing has been confirmed, but I have a bad feeling about this.

 

And I don't go to Fallout forums anymore. I can't stand the fans. It's like they want to be miserable. They're the worst group of fans in the world, there is absolutely no pleasing them.

Well, some fans surely behave like rabid dogs (note the SOME). Then again, Interplay gave them Fallout: POS (Brotherhood of Steel for the XBOX), and then sold part of the license to Bethesda. Bethesda never made a game like Fallout, and never confirmed that the next one will be like it. One shouldn't judge without knowing the facts, but chances for a turn-based sequel to Fallout 2 are slim to none in my opinion.

 

@KoMik: Your best source for Fallout 3 information is probably this site (scroll down a little). They pick up most news on the subject.

[Gimli]

I don't know... Either way, I do not believe Bethesda will go for turn-based. There is no definitive word either way that I know of, but I believe Bethesda will make a very different Fallout game. I could live with that, if I knew there were a proper sequel coming too, but that is not so.

 

If you check out this interview, it asks about turn-based.

 

Hmmm, do you know what exactly are the fans' reasons against the game being RT (and possibly first person)? I've enjoyed Fallout as a TB game, but real time first person seems perfect for Fallout specifically, if done properly of course (then again, I'd play it in any form if it was good). The combat part would certainly gain much, it would be much more realistic. What I fear is that it might be like Morrowind, although I haven't played it much (only the beginning, so maybe I don't have a good feeling of how it works later on), but it seemed to be... slow. The movement was slow, combat was slow, and the insane amount of text was also annoying (note that I really like reading good stories, and they are very important to me when playing RPGs).

 

On the other hand, the people in Bethesda seem to recognize that Fallout is very different, though it's not too comforting. However, what little I've just seen of some of their fans, I must say if I were a developer, I wouldn't want to share much information with them either. On the other hand, if they ignore the fans, they could fail, even if they had the best of intentions.

 

As far as the game itself, I've checked some screenshots from the Van Buren, and I was amazed by some ideas they had there, it was very original in design, it would be a nice upgrade of the Fallout world.

 

I should add that someone said (maybe it was someone from Bethesda, but I'm not sure anymore) that this quote:

 

We're approaching Fallout 3 as if we developed the first and second games - we're developing it just like we developed Oblivion.

 

actually meant they would give it as much care as Oblivion, not make it a game like Oblivion.

 

But like I said before, I have big doubts about Bethesda, but I'll wait until I see more.

[Slaughter]

Hmmm, do you know what exactly are the fans' reasons against the game being RT (and possibly first person)? I've enjoyed Fallout as a TB game, but real time first person seems perfect for Fallout specifically, if done properly of course (then again, I'd play it in any form if it was good). The combat part would certainly gain much, it would be much more realistic.

It would be a completely different game. I like UFO: Aftermath / Aftershock, but there is little doubt that S.A.S. (real-time with pause) makes it quite different from X-COM. I can't talk for all Fallout fans, but my general impression is that most fans would like a true sequel. More story, new missions, same great humour and same system.

 

As for putting in first person view as well, that would make it a FPS...

 

Anyway, personally I'm fine with other sort of games in the Fallout setting, as long as they give us a true sequel. Make "Fallout: The HL2 Engine FPS" and so on, but don't mess with Fallout 3!

 

We're approaching Fallout 3 as if we developed the first and second games - we're developing it just like we developed Oblivion.

actually meant they would give it as much care as Oblivion, not make it a game like Oblivion.

Agreed. As I said before, there is no confirmation as to how they will make the game. I just don't have too much faith. But as you say, time will tell.

[Gimli]

Ahh, so it seems it's the fear that it would become a FPS. Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first RPG to use it, then again, I don't know how well it worked in other RPGs, like Morrowind and Deus Ex. But as you say, it could turn a lot of people off it were first person. Bethesda will certainly have a hard time deciding which to go with.

If they indeed decide to make it first person, they'll have to make an early public demonstration of how it works, if they want to convince anyone that it's actually any good. Because, it was very good as it was then, and drastically changing that system could be detrimental to the game mechanics.

On the other hand, if they go for the Fallout 1/2 view, there is the possibility that they make an option for both real time and turn based combat, but that is a very dangerous thing, because they could end up making both bad.

 

I'm afraid that marketing will have the final word, though.

[NKF]

Ah, Fallout 2. Love it so much that I boiled the game down to a formula of heading straight for San Francisco (with a quick stop at the Navarro base for the you-know-what and other freebies) shortly after leaving the starting village... what fun. The trick is to pre-empt a random attack by mashing the attack button so that you initiate combat before the attackers, then running away until you're perceived as some new kind of walking car. It might be cowardly, but there's no sense pitting a mushy pea against a mountain.

 

For any new sequal, I wouldn't mind if they moved on to pausable-real-time or the old turn-based-when-in-combat-otherwise-it's-real-time mode. However, if there's a first person view, I'd very much prefer it to come with an optional third-person-view as well. First person view is great for percision attacks with dinky weapons (like the Rock v2) and high power sniper rifles (.223 sniper rifle), but for general running around, throwing area effect weapons about all over the place and doing tedious things, the third person view is much better. Besides, how else are you going to partake in long moments of vanity by posing in your brand new armour? Eh? Eh? Or maybe I've just been playing too many X-Box and PS2 games lately..

 

- NKF

 

P.S: Curses, look what you lot have done! Now I yearn to play Fallout II again. .223 pistols, the super sledge, the solar scorcher, laser rifle, yk32 pulse pistol, the 10mm retrofitted p90, rock v2... *sigh*

[Gimli]

I agree about the third person view. I think it would definitely work better than first person. And I'm quite sure it'll be there since the Unreal 3 Engine surely supports it. And Morrowind had it.

 

One other thing I wanted to add was, I don't believe Bethesda will make another engine specifically for Fallout, because they probably payed a LOT of money for the license of the Unreal Engine (I assume it costs like id's, so probably some 500 000$). Also, by the time they actually get to work on Fallout, they'll be accustomed to the editor of the Unreal Engine, which means they won't have to adapt. That is a plus for them, because it means they'll have more time to concentrate on the actual game, and not making/learning/bug fixing their own editors.

 

P.S: Curses, look what you lot have done! Now I yearn to play Fallout II again. .223 pistols, the super sledge, the solar scorcher, laser rifle, yk32 pulse pistol, the 10mm retrofitted p90, rock v2... *sigh*

 

Yes, me too. By the way, what is the solar scorcher? I don't remember that.

[Slaughter]

P.S: Curses, look what you lot have done! Now I yearn to play Fallout II again. .223 pistols, the super sledge, the solar scorcher, laser rifle, yk32 pulse pistol, the 10mm retrofitted p90, rock v2... *sigh*

Hehe, you and me both . I recently read "The Postman", and it had the exact same effect. Luckily Fallout 1 & 2 never leaves my harddrive. There are instructions on how to make it work with Windows XP here.

 

@Gimli: Deus Ex was an excellent game! (while the sequel was a console disaster!) I don't know how it would work in a post nuclear setting, but it might be good. "The Postman" and Fallout are both possible settings. It would be a very different game however.

 

As for the engine, you are probably right. They'll use the Oblivion one without doubt. They might modify it for another view and combat system, but I doubt it.

 

In general however, I am skeptical to taking a good game setting and using it for a different sort of game. Take X-COM as a prime example:

• UFO: Enemy Unknown is a classic that most visitors here love.
  
• TFTD was a quick and dirty expansion really, and thus wasn't received as well. Still, most X-COM fans enjoyed as far as I know.
  
• Apocalypse wasted time implementing both turn-based and real-time. Even if some people liked to have both available, or even preferred the real-time, it's too much trouble to balance both in a game. Hardly any game does this, and there's a good reason why. Apocalypse also changed the setting to a city, and ended as a love / hate object. Some think it's the best game in the X-COM series, while other fans hates it.
  
• The next games in the X-COM series used the X-COM setting in completely different genres. Interceptor was perceived as mediocre at best, and Enforcer was a complete disaster.
  

You can argue that a lot went wrong with the development of the X-COM games that explored other genres, but I still think it serves as a good example. X-COM fans didn't want a FPS or space combat, they wanted a proper sequel to UFO: Enemy Unknown. Even today you can see people begging for an updated X-COM everywhere it is discussed.

 

If they make Fallout: Oblivion, I don't think most Fallout fans will embrace it. The Oblivion fans might, but wouldn't the point of making a new Fallout game be to please the people that liked the games in the first place? If they want Oblivion in a post apocalyptic setting, create one! We still don't know what they'll do, but as I said before I'm not optimistic...

[Slaughter]

Okay, I just stumbled across the HUGE interview here. It's about 50 minutes of Oblivion questions, with a Fallout and Terminator one at the end. Interesting interview, though I still don't know what to think

[Gimli]

Yes, as you say, such a change would most likely make most fans angry, especially if it wasn't good, meaning they miss the style, the atmosphere, change the system from S.P.E.C.I.A.L. to something else (that would make me very angry, because it had an excellent system). If they do go for a change they'll have to make it very, VERY good.

 

There are many things I don't know here, I'd have to read a lot more, not just on Fallout, the past of the whole case, see how many fans there are, but also on Bethesda, how they work, how they communicate with fans, and how they treat them, etc.

 

Your point on X-COM is exactly what I have in mind right now. I understand that making the same kind of game again at the time would not have been well accepted by the critics, which unfortunately still have a strong influence on people (luckily it is slowly diminishing), and both Apocalypse and Interceptor seem to have had some nice ideas, but the simple description of both would be... unfinished. That happens a lot, it seems to be getting the #1 problem in games. Apocalypse had gone too far from the atmosphere of the original, there were no day/night changes, no music that would make you nervous, going into the unknown and getting shot when you least expect it, scaring you to death. I haven't given a good look to the RT-TB systems, I played both, but until I saw people here mentioning it, I didn't really notice some obvious flaws. Then the story wasn't well connected with other games in the series (actually, none were well connected), which left a feeling of playing a completely different game series.

 

I think the thing that bothered fans the most was that the Apoc aliens "came out of nowhere", and had nothing to do with the ones in UFO/TFTD. And the fact that Ellis had no idea how to incorporate them into the story when he was moving on to Genesis doesn't make me very happy either. Especially since he gave half the answer to it himself. A more political story would have been certainly interesting, but again, not finished. It seems to me there weren't enough organizations, and they all needed to have more influence on the game (the VIP idea would have been nice, although probably not enough), the city itself should have been quite bigger (at least 5-10 times), and finally the story needed to be more developed. Maybe if they made MegaPrimus two-faced, so a nice shiny city outside in the daylight, but a city reeking of corruption in the night, with criminal wreaking havoc in the night, both in poor and rich parts of it, which would only increase with the coming of the aliens. This is where they could have achieved that the player wants to go on, not just because of research, but to see what will actually happen, in other words, to create a better bond.

 

I don't know much about Interceptor, I heard that one of the bigger complaints were the controls. Again, had some nice ideas, but went too far from what the fans wanted, and also wasn't executed well.

 

What were the reasons? In part it was the publishers, but I also think that Mythos didn't have the resources (both in raw manpower and financially) nor the recognition to make games which would offer more. As the 2K representative said, teams with better recognition get better reocgnition, unfortunately, it is almost impossible to get into that circle now, those that did, did so during the 90s (Blizzard, id, etc.) the rest come and go, raped by the greedy publishers, and serve to be money making slaves, resulting in a lot of mediocre games (EA is the best example).

 

Wooo, I strayed a lot, hehe. To get back on topic:

 

Bethesda will first have to get a tougher skin. Some of the fans may be very harsh sometimes, but whining about it won't achieve anything. I must say, I don't like the general attitude on the NMA forums, which is why I haven't joined, and I don't think that such an approach will yield good results. I find that people are much more responsive and ready to listen to what you have to say, when you approach them in a friendly, but determined manner. On the Serious Sam forums, which I frequent the most, there are lots of complaints over this and that every day (the sequel is VERY buggy, Aftershock is nothing compared to it ). So I talked to a few people on IRC to try and use a friendlier approach, and people were immediately calmer, more understanding, etc. We just told them that the developer is working on the patches, reassured them a bit, didn't use the standard sarcastic remarks, et voila, it worked.

 

Secondly, whining about the PR will just make things worse, since 2K will jump in, and offer their representative, which as I mentioned before, knows nothing about public relations. He made very eloquent posts, and managed to hide their bad work on the game from fans, which I think is worse than the y'knows. But the y'knows are not good either.

 

The best thing they could do is, as soon as they finish Oblivion, open a separate forum for Fallout, one which is friendlier, and have proper communication with the community. Fallout isn't a game for the masses, and if they want to sell it, they have to have good communication with their fans, because the fans can sell the game, but also bury it. They need to be as open as they possibly can, especially if they'll go for a different perspective. That's the only possible way they could make it not fail. In other words, public beta's.

 

In the end, if they see that a first/third person perspective will sell it better, they'll have to with that by order of the publisher, even if they don't like it.

 

Also, they may run into some more problems, since Take 2 recently got into some quite questionable situations, the first being the Hot Coffee case, and it also seems there is a case against some people in Take 2 for financial malversations.

 

Things don't look very bright right now.

[Gimli]

Okay, I just stumbled across the HUGE interview here. It's about 50 minutes of Oblivion questions, with a Fallout and Terminator one at the end. Interesting interview, though I still don't know what to think smile.gif

 

I still didn't get a chance to watch this, because I'm very close to the download limit, so I'll have to wait for a few more days, however, I found a written part on NMA. To comment:

 

New Gaming Radio: Is there anything you can tell me about Fallout 3, 'cause I'm a huge fan. Perspective? (indecipherable mumbling) Is it going to be true to the top-down or is it going to be Oblivion style?

Pete Hines: It will be true to what is good and memorable and what is "Fallout". That's it.

 

Avoiding a direct answer most likely means they're not going with a top down view. This is further reinforced by there attitude here:

 

And once again it's going to be a "Here's the game we're making." [reference to earlier part of interview - Kharn] We're not going to go out there chasing individuals, pulling on their shirts saying please please please come buy it. Buy it. Don't buy it. We think that what we're up to and what we're working on is pretty spectacular, pretty amazing.

 

This is not a good idea, they'll get burned. Fallout isn't the kind of game that would sell as soon as you mention it's name, it isn't Doom, Quake, Diablo, Warcraft. If they want to sell it, they'll have to work with the community. Thinking of the community as individuals is a bad thing. If the fans don't like it, they'll spread the word and bury the game. Bethesda may survive, but they'll learn a very important and harsh lesson.

 

EDIT: Not to intentionally pull things out of context, I'm linking to NMA, so you can read the rest.

 

https://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17836

Edited February 26, 2006 by Gimli

[Zager]

This is not a good idea, they'll get burned. Fallout isn't the kind of game that would sell as soon as you mention it's name, it isn't Doom, Quake, Diablo, Warcraft. If they want to sell it, they'll have to work with the community. Thinking of the community as individuals is a bad thing. If the fans don't like it, they'll spread the word and bury the game. Bethesda may survive, but they'll learn a very important and harsh lesson.

 

The hardcore fallout fans make up a tiny, tiny percetnage of the potential buying market. They're opinions aren't going to have any significant affect on buying patterns. Not even Chris Taylor likes them, and he made Fallout, along wiht Tim Cain.

[Slaughter]

The hardcore fallout fans make up a tiny, tiny percetnage of the potential buying market. They're opinions aren't going to have any significant affect on buying patterns. Not even Chris Taylor likes them, and he made Fallout, along wiht Tim Cain.

But you do agree that it's the Fallout fans that yarn for a new Fallout? Someone that never played Fallout couldn't care less if the next game from Bethesda is set in the Fallout universe or some other post apocalyptic setting. Thus if you intend to appeal to the Fallout fans, you need to listen to their wishes. It is true that the regulars at the Fallout fan-sites is a small part of the Fallout fan-base however, so the opinions expressed there isn't necessarily the opinion of the average Fallout fan.

 

What do you think the average Fallout fan wishes for, and what do you think Bethesda will do?

[Gimli]

I've gone to The Elder Scrolls forums and after a little search, found this topic. In between all the nonsense, there's a few interesting posts, especially by Rosenphelia Godot. I suggest you read them, unlike some posts on NMA, these are pretty clear.

 

I just realized what one of the bigger problems with the RT FP combat would be. The aiming. Now normal aiming would be relatively easy to do. You make an imaginary cone, which reflects the distance and your skill. The longer the distance, the less chance to hit (because you're further away), and the better the skill, the smaller the cone. And then you just make a random function which determines where each bullet would go.

 

However, aiming a certain body part on your own would be difficult for most of us (especially the eyes and the groin). How they could solve that... I'm not sure. Perhaps, if you could use a button for aiming, then the game pauses, you choose the body part, then the aim moves to the specified body part (takes some time to simulate aiming), it locks at that body part, adjusts the chances via the "cone", and you fire. The cone would not be visible to you of course, and the whole process would obviously work faster than in my description.

 

As for the top-down view, one of the posts in the above mentioned thread reminded me that Dungeon Keeper had the ability to switch from top-down to FP. I don't know if the Unreal engine supports this, probably so. Then you could run around in first/third person, and do the combat in top-down TB combat. That would seem like a very good solution, and I don't think it would require an immense amount of recoding, at least not as much as it would building a whole new engine, so that might be a realistic option.

[Thorondor]

E3 2006 Fallout 3 poster.

 

::

 

[Slaughter]

Yeah, Mike and me went by the Bethesda booth to ask them about it. I already knew they wouldn't tell anything, but we asked anyway. They wouldn't say anything. I also asked them if they'd be willing to provide feedback for my bachelor thesis, and got a business card with contact details. At least it wasn't a total waste...

[Thorondor]

"I also asked them if they'd be willing to provide feedback for my bachelor thesis, and got a business card with contact details.(...)"

 

Oh! Does this mean we'll be seeing TB combat in Fallout 3 then, Olav ?

 

::

 

"TB is out; I see. Say, guys, what do you think about the prospect of having the contacts in this here card handed over to the Duck and Cover regulars ?..."

[Slaughter]

Hehe, I strongly doubt they'll make a turn-based Fallout. Still, nice to get their thoughts on turn-based. And yeah, I'm sure they would appreciate me giving the card to DaC...