Ethereal Attacks

[Zombie]

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I had some time today so I tested a whole bunch of psi-related issues.

 

Test #1: Simple really, I edited a normal civilian to have 100 for both psi-abilities, then watched to see what would happen. Result? Nothing. It's obvious that a civilian does not consider aliens or X-COM soldiers as "alien" otherwise some attacks would have been heard.

 

Test #2: I MC'd the psi-civilian and waited one round so that it turned to alien status. After waiting another round, I heard the familiar *bling* of a psi attack.

 

Test #3a: I edited a Snakeman Navigator to have decent psi-abilities and 26 TU per round. Next I edited one X-COM soldier to have 10 for both of his psionic skills and a second X-COM soldier to have 20. Hopefully, the snakeman would focus his efforts on lower soldier first. Neither of the soldiers had a Psi-Amp. After waiting a while, I saw that the first soldier was under mind control. That same round I heard another *bling* which would indicate that soldier#1 was waging an attack of his own.

 

Test #3b: Same conditions as part a, except soldier#1 had a Psi-Amp in his backpack. I waited until soldier#1 fell to alien MC and used his psi-attack once. As soon as soldier#1 returned to X-COM status, I checked his inventory. The Psi-Amp was still in the backpack.

 

So in conclusion, we have to assume that aliens never use (or need) a physical object (like the Psi-Amp) for their attacks. Alien psi abilities are inherent, and this applies to any type of unit in the game which falls under their control.

 

- Zombie

[uriaheep]

So in conclusion, we have to assume that aliens never use (or need) a physical object (like the Psi-Amp) for their attacks. Alien psi abilities are inherent, and this applies to any type of unit in the game which falls under their control.

 

- Zombie

 

Which is why a psi amp is never 'found' in the game, it has to be researched separately. I wonder if they put this skill inherently into the aliens to prevent psi amps being found? Maybe not as they could have sorted this out in the research tree.

[Zombie]

Which is why a psi amp is never 'found' in the game, it has to be researched separately. I wonder if they put this skill inherently into the aliens to prevent psi amps being found? Maybe not as they could have sorted this out in the research tree.

Sorry, I may have been unclear in my conclusion. What I meant to say is that any unit in the game which is flagged as "alien" can use psi attacks as long as Psionic Skill > 0. Units which are flagged as "X-COM" need a physical device (the Psi-Amp) to help amplify and project their attacks (again, as long as Psionic Skill > 0).

 

As for Psi-Amps not being found on aliens, this gadget is something cooked up by X-COM scientists to help soldiers utilize their newfound skills. Most likely, the programmers decided that the aliens did not need a supplemental device to augment psionics, and therefore left it out of their arsenal. It would mean another item that the psi aliens would need to carry, and since they always have a gun too, where would the amp go? Certainly not in the left hand, as that always remains empty. Either the gun or the amp would need to be stacked on the right leg (item slot 0) to preserve the continuity in inventory management. In other words, it would be a pain to implement.

 

- Zombie

[uriaheep]

Ah I see.

 

Certainly not in the left hand, as that always remains empty.

- Zombie

This brings up another question. If this is the case, do aliens have TU's to prime and throw grenades?

In the game I'm playing at the moment I have noticed they seem to be able to come through a door, throw the grenade and retreat and even if the AI will enable them to pre prime the grenade (which I know they don't) I could not achieve this by taking control of say a Snakeman.

 

PS Do they use the left hand at all as if the alien has to put the gun away to throw the grenade this seems even more of a cheat?

[Zombie]

This brings up another question. If this is the case, do aliens have TU's to prime and throw grenades?

In the game I'm playing at the moment I have noticed they seem to be able to come through a door, throw the grenade and retreat and even if the AI will enable them to pre prime the grenade (which I know they don't) I could not achieve this by taking control of say a Snakeman.

 

PS Do they use the left hand at all as if the alien has to put the gun away to throw the grenade this seems even more of a cheat?

All right, some testing on my behalf will probably clear up a few questions, but it will also raise some new ones. First, the aliens seem unaware that they even have a left hand slot. That is, until you take the weapon in the right hand and put it in the left. The aliens will not move it back; it stays put.

 

Some of you may remember that I once caught a Sectoid commander red-handed with a primed alien grenade in its right hand during my round. So the aliens do need time to prime and throw, otherwise the Sectoid would have got rid of the hot potato long before.

 

I was trying to figure out how to get a Snakeman Navigator to use its grenade against my men. It didn't like to use the grenade when my 2 men had a lot of TU and were in the air. Burn some of the TU and the Snakeman was more willing to throw. Put the soldiers on the ground with very few TU and the grenade was thrown almost 100% of the time. Obviously, the Snakeman knew that my men would not win a reaction contest when it would throw, so it took advantage of this fact. (Proves yet again that the aliens know your soldiers stats).

 

So what I did was to place a Heavy Plasma in the right hand and the grenade on the leg. When I checked the Snakeman's inventory after it threw the grenade, the Heavy Plasma was still in its hand. To eliminate the left hand being used, I placed a Snakeman corpse there. After running the test again, same results. The Heavy Plasma ended up in the Right Hand slot, leaving me to wonder if it stacked the HP on the leg and the put the gun back after the throw.

 

This led me to use some creative stacking tricks to see what was going on. First I placed an unloaded Heavy Plasma in each hand. Then I stacked a Stun Bomb on top of each gun. Finally I stacked another Stun Bomb on top of the grenade in the leg. After the Snakeman threw the grenade, I checked the inventory again. This time around, there were 2 stacked Stun Bombs in the right leg and the Heavy Plasma in the right hand. With all the necessary stacking and unstacking, it seems doubtful that the Snakeman had enough TU to place the HP back where it belonged.

 

However, I strongly believe that the Snakeman actually did use TU to prime and throw the grenade. What I might do next is to progressively lower max TU until it would not be able to prime and throw a grenade in one turn. Man, what a mess.

 

- Zombie

[uriaheep]

However, I strongly believe that the Snakeman actually did use TU to prime and throw the grenade. What I might do next is to progressively lower max TU until it would not be able to prime and throw a grenade in one turn. Man, what a mess.

 

- Zombie

 

Sorry to put you under pressure but I strongly believe that they don't use TU's for grenades. Unfortunately I didn't savr close enough in my game to recreate this but heres what happened.

 

My trooper closes on a door in a barn. I stop him behind a wall for cover. During the alien turn I hear the inner door in the barn open. My turn and I get better cover with enough TU's on overwatch to shoot the alien.

Alien tunr and the Snakeman exits the door and moves 3 squares - turns and throws the grenade. He turns back and returns through the door. My troopers fires at this point missing and blowing away part of the door to show the snakeman the other side of the second door. - The TU's don't add up. Even if the grenade was pre-primed (and I don't believe the aliens ever do this*) the snakeman would not be able to do all the movement that it completed.

 

 

*Through all the games I have ever played I have never seen an alien use a grenade other than with a fuse of '0'.

[NKF]

Snakemen actually have an advantage when it comes to moving across terrain, so their move costs are slightly different when it comes to everyone else.

 

The arm, prime and throw procedure takes quite a lot of TUs to perform as a rule. The priming and throwing alone costs 75% of your total TUs, not taking into account the move costs. But then again, is alien deployment of a grenade identical to player controlled deployment of a grenade? I mean, the game plays the firing sound of the last fired gun when aliens throw grenades.

 

- NKF

[uriaheep]

I'm sure the deployment is different when used by aliens - I just find it interesting to know exactly how much of an advantage they have. With the poor AI in the game they have to possess some kind of advantage or cheat but with grenades there seem to be quite a few.