Tactics (with screenshots)

[Martian base commander]

As my screenshots section is slowly evolving into a tactics discussion I decided to create this new post for the very purpose,to discuss tactics,mission breakdowns,and of course to actually SEE them hopefully working

Now its important to remember that NOBODY is an expert,and I look forward to your imput here.And as some of these threads will no doubt be very lengthy this area should only be used by those with a serious interest in the subject.

 

MODS: My last 2 posts in the 'Screenshots' section may need to be moved into here,could you do that?And they could serve as starters for this new post.

 

Cheers.

[Crazy Gringo]

Then let me be the first to pass on my expertise and experiences.

 

Let me start out with a picture that I call Flanking deployment.

My two sniper have set up positions on a hill top overlooking the alien infested ravine below and are covering the rest of the team by keeping the bugger busy with sniper fire while the rest of the team outflanks the enemy.

 

The next screen shot is something I call Infrared detection.

Spotting your enemy before he spots you is crucial in this game as it is on the battlefield. For this you have various tools at your disposal active and passive ones. The picture shows the infrared signatures of the aliens....detected halfway across the map....

So if you have scanners of any kind passive or active use them! Because you know that your enemy surely will....

 

Last picture is something I call Long range shotgun.

I have noticed that when your close combat rating is maxed out (Superheroic) and you have a supped up short range weapon like the shotgun you will be able to to shoot beyond the maximum range with that weapon as demostrated with the picture....If this is a bug then, okay. If not then your power of kicking rear just increased to a whole new level....It suffices to say that the muckstar was turned into dust.

 

That's it for now....I'll be back with more goodies later.

[Martian base commander]

Cheers CG.

 

You are right about detection,and its something I will be relying on just as soon as the technology is ready in my game,im currently about 2 days out.

 

Flanking maneuvers (pincer) are really recommended too.I generally pin the enemy down with my HG if I attempt a flank move.I normally only attempt flank moves when surrounding a building or some other object the enemy may be using for cover,which then quickly turns into an ambush.Tactics change accordingly depending on which squad of mine I use.

 

I will post a few shots later hopefully.

 

I hardly slept last night

[Martian base commander]

COVER TACTICS:

 

Apart from the basic fire and maneuver (FM) drills,do any of you actually use smoke grenades at all?.I must admit I havent,but I am going to start manufacturing a lot now and trying them out.After doing some research on them they prove to be very useful to small squads.

Lets say your squad needs to bound a large open area with hardly any cover,and your enemy are the Wargots or Cultists.Ideally you dont really want to be engaging them on open field (unless you have some serious firepower).I am thinking of creating a large smoke screen covering my entire front and then engaging them in the smoke (if it works),a scanner would also be useful for tracking the hidden targets in the smoke too.The SGs could also be useful for storming buildings too,possibly combined with flashbangs (FB).

 

As Crazy Gringo rightly pointed out that the ability to see your enemy first before he sees you is important,and I believe that gaining surprise on the enemy while knowing where he is first is even better!

 

Tonights missions may become more interesting.

 

I will hopefully return with some new shots.

[Crazy Gringo]

I have played around a little with grenades, but I don't use grenades at the current time due to the fact that you only throw then in LOS.

That is due to be fixed in the patch that we're all waiting for. Otherwise I would use them to great extent.

I remember in JA2 when you were capable bouncing them of walls and round corners....I wonder if you will be able to do that after the patch.

 

Ideas for more types of grenades are: Sonic pulsers as known UFO: TFTD. Laser grenades as seen in Blade II, if it doesn't kill you it'll blind you permanently. Plasma based grenades? Black hole grenades based on the warp technology? What ever can be made a grenade can be used a mine too....Seen with the sonic mine but no sonic grenade/pulser.

 

Mines primary use is area denial so plant a few of them in front of doorways that you won't like anyone to pass. What fuze you want to use is up to you....

 

Enough of my ramblings....I'll be back

[Martian base commander]

A Plasma based grenade would be a very efficient grenade CG.

 

For one plasma is the 4th element,a combination of liquid and gas.The explosive material would be released with massive force from the grenade case much like trapped gas,and then splash over the target much like hot water would.The effects would be pretty horrific.

On the downside of Plasma,its theorized that it would make a poor bullet or other projectile due to its instability to maintain form as it travels through the air.It would need a propulsion system faster than anything we know of today,to push it through the air.

Apparently it needs something like a magnetic field to keep its form in as it travels.

This is why Plasma makes great indirect fire attacks,due to its inherant instability.

Massive damage potential too,with terrific heat being released by the energy blast.

A Plasma mortar would be a perfect implementation of Plasma technology.

And a Plasma Bomb would be absolutely devastating! used against soft targets dug in for example.

 

Yeah the laser grenades from Blade looked good,but would they really work?lasers are far more effective when used in a projectile I think,as they cut through the air much faster than a bullet.

 

Sonic Grenades?...very logical idea that one,as its pulse based energy it would fit in with an explosive device perfectly.

 

Anti Matter Grenades? (AMG) VERY interesting.I dont know enough on this area but its certainly interesting.

 

Warp Grenades? great stuff...sending shrapnel outwards faster than time itself!...WOW

[uly]

I agree that enemy detection is probably the most important part of any tactic in AS, which makes it worthwhile to have an almost dedicated scout early on. Later, you can detect enemies across the map with infra-red vision easily and pick them off with your snipers. I regularly have 3 snipers in my squad, so it's quite common for me to eliminate all the enemies in open field maps without ever seeing them. Infrared is almost overpowered. (Please don't nerf it though!)

 

I disagree about flanking though. I don't see any valid point of flanking in this game. The whole idea of flanking is based on two things: 1) it is assumed that the target is weaker on the sides, and 2) that it cannot react to threats from the side quickly. Since neither of these are true in this game (even the power armors turn on a dime here), there's really not much point of flanking the enemy; running up close to it, just a bit out of the line of fire, is more effective than trying to waste the time circling to the enemy's side and back. Furthermore, since the enemies don't know how to take cover and will always run up to you until they get you in their firing range, you really can't pin them down, either. As such, there's really no difference which direction you attack them from, as long as you can get a good shot.

[Martian base commander]

True Uly,there really is notmuch point putting the effort into flanking movements,even if they DO seem satisfying at the time.

It would have been nice if there was a bonus for attacking the enemy in the sides and rear,with more profound damage coming in from the rear.This type of attack would have been great against Wargots,as you would expect their armour being thinner on the sides and rear,much like a tank.

A rout effect would have been good too,causing enemies to instantly panic due to rear attacks.

 

I DO like to pull of a sort of flanking/pincer movement inside bases and such though,moving on a wide perimeter and then coming in from the side corridors,while my gunner is pinning the targets down from the front.

 

True Uly,there really is not much point putting the effort into flanking movements,even if they DO seem satisfying at the time.

It would have been nice if there was a bonus for attacking the enemy in the sides and rear,with more profound damage coming in from the rear.This type of attack would have been great against Wargots,as you would expect their armour being thinner on the sides and rear,much like a tank.

A rout effect would have been good too,causing enemies to instantly panic due to rear attacks.

 

I DO like to pull off a SORT of flanking/pincer movement inside bases and such though,moving on a wide perimeter and then coming in from the side corridors,while my gunner is pinning the targets down from the front.

 

Damn that got posted twice

 

I cant even edit my reply either,whats going on with this new site?

[uly]

Yeah, indoor missions are about the only place I use a sort of a pincer movement, but that's more because there's not enough space to excersize my full fire power. I think making the Wargots stronger in the front could be interesting, but the problem still lies in the AI. I can already imagine how easy it would be to distract a bunch of armoured wargots with a scout while the rest of my team pick them off from the side. Well, of course that's flanking, but a single scout shouldn't be able to "pin" a squad of wargots down.

 

Basically, the AI doesn't play defensively enough, if at all. As long as they don't learn to take cover, as long as they don't try not to get shot at, sophisticated tactics will never be necessary, if even benefitial. It is very satisfying to set up a good tactic and decimate your enemy with it, but it's distinctly unsatisfying to know that you could have done the same without doing all that.

 

The game is still quite hard, but to me, the difficulty lies entirely with the strategy part of the game; with the always tight resources and base space. The tactical part is always a cakewalk with some simple planning, even when the number is stacked against you.

[Preda]

To complete your statemet on weapons, Riley:

 

-antimatter grenades would be a combination of insanely high explosives and flashbangs. a.m. completely, totally and one-hundred-percently converts matter into energy (photons, mainly) and it would definately make one hell of a bomb.

-warp grenades WOULD NOT create black holes. warp technology actually generates a distortion/ripple in spacetime. for a black hole, you would need 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times the mass of the heaviest star ever to even get it to start. let us not forget that we need this reaction to be stopped in less than a second, otherwise it would absorb the planet, among oother things. and even if you could make it work, even if you had the tech required, why make it a grenade? warp grenades would be inefficient bercause of the limited range of the distortion. if you really WANT to make a warp-based explosive, it would be best used as a demolition charge for penetrating walls. another idea would be to only, say, 'startup' a black hole, then shut it down BEFORE it reaches singularity, let spacetime 'snap' back to normal, and watch the bodies fly, just like the striders in HL2 (if anyone played the game, the striders use a secindary cannon to blow up massive chunks of land).

 

Enough on guns, let me show you a tactic I call basic ambush.The psioni lured the unsuspecting cultist right in front of Harshad's PKM machine gun. Instantaneous effect :

 

https://img278.imageshack.us/img278/3428/screenshot58mk.th.jpg

[Martian base commander]

I agree,the tactical missions arent that hard,more so when you can outgun them with superior weapons.Basic tactics like setting a single line of fire is enough to disable your enemy.I still use proper strategies though,makes my game more absorbing then,even knowing in the back of my mind that it wasnt necessary.Good tactics DO actually help though against the Wargots,as proper fire control can save your squad in a fierce fire-fight.

 

As far as the strategic side of the game goes,its not TOO bad now,but was a struggle early on.I think my XP playing the X-COM games years ago has helped me a lot too.

What I generally do now is make my bases specialize,it can be expensive but helps to organize my terriotory.Generally speaking Europe and the US is conducting much of my research while the Middle East and similar areas do the manufacturing.

 

Once you have enough bases your resources start rolling in then.

 

Good luck.

 

Nice little ambush Preda,I do em a lot.

 

Really though,that Cultist stood no chance against that Cyborg clocking him hehe.

[Preda]

Right you are about the wargots. During the first missions against them, when I was stuck with AK's, SPAS 15's and 1 pkm, I used to lure them in buildings, knowing that they would only fit in 1 at a time. This made it easy for my shotgunner to pick them off. Later, when I got a good sniper, it was all down to "let'em come".

 

The only time I lost a squaddie was in the Wargot attack on the Laputa, when I severly underestimated them, and let the soldier take on 3 wg's with an accelerated AK.

 

As for the ambush, I only usedf it because the cultist was heavily armoured and posed something resembling a threat.

[Martian base commander]

Yes,your Psionic was a bit exposed there,lucky for her the Juggernaut support wasnt too far away.

[1stStrikeRecon]

I agree that enemy detection is probably the most important part of any tactic in AS, which makes it worthwhile to have an almost dedicated scout early on. Later, you can detect enemies across the map with infra-red vision easily and pick them off with your snipers. I regularly have 3 snipers in my squad, so it's quite common for me to eliminate all the enemies in open field maps without ever seeing them. Infrared is almost overpowered. (Please don't nerf it though!)

 

I disagree about flanking though. I don't see any valid point of flanking in this game. The whole idea of flanking is based on two things: 1) it is assumed that the target is weaker on the sides, and 2) that it cannot react to threats from the side quickly. Since neither of these are true in this game (even the power armors turn on a dime here), there's really not much point of flanking the enemy; running up close to it, just a bit out of the line of fire, is more effective than trying to waste the time circling to the enemy's side and back. Furthermore, since the enemies don't know how to take cover and will always run up to you until they get you in their firing range, you really can't pin them down, either. As such, there's really no difference which direction you attack them from, as long as you can get a good shot.

 

Flanking doesnt cause extra damage in real life, flanking is used to get around cover the enemy has and to attack him from another direction. Flanking is a tactic generally used with two forces, one of which lays down surpressive fire, pinning the foe to his cover. The other force will conduct a flanking manuver, getting into a position that provides them a line of fire around the enemies cover.

 

This in no way means they do EXTRA damage, merely that the cover the enemy is using is denied. Further, the enemy cannot detect as well to his sides as he can to his front, meaning a stealthy or properly equiped flanking force can attack undetected. Otherwise, there is no real reaction time to take into place. Take into consideration that turning to your side to face a new threat is easy: Its realizing there is one that is the hard part.

 

Now, for the game, I don't actually have it yet (Go amazon.com in the US!) but assuming the enemy doesn't take cover, you would instead use flanking to gain a more advantageous position to attack the enemy.

 

An example would be, your supressive element situates themselves in cover, and fires on the enemy as they attack. Your flanking force stealthy moves around to their flank or rear, and moves to a higher/covered/closer position, and opens fire.

 

I would say flanking in this can be very effective, especially with stealthy forces. Using one or two soldiers as a surpressive element, you can draw the enemy in to them and then ambush them to the sides or rear with the rest and defeat them with minimum return fire.

 

Anyway, my point is that flanking is to get around cover or move to a more advantageous firing position. It in no way means more damage or takes advantage of turning times in real life.

[Martian base commander]

Basics of flanking in real life combat is to first suppress the target then move around to his sides with an assault element then move in,hopefully trapping his point of exit.No,it doesnt do extra damage,to infantry anyway,you are right,but it can certainly be a huge morale breaker.

 

I would say on the other hand to flank a tank and hit it in the sides or rear with an anti-armour rocket WOULD cause extra damage and would in fact destroy it.This was the preferred method to engage armour during WWII.

[Crazy Gringo]

-warp grenades WOULD NOT create black holes. warp technology actually generates a distortion/ripple in spacetime. for a black hole, you would need 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times the mass of the heaviest star ever to even get it to start. let us not forget that we need this reaction to be stopped in less than a second, otherwise it would absorb the planet, among oother things. and even if you could make it work, even if you had the tech required, why make it a grenade? warp grenades would be inefficient bercause of the limited range of the distortion. if you really WANT to make a warp-based explosive, it would be best used as a demolition charge for penetrating walls. another idea would be to only, say, 'startup' a black hole, then shut it down BEFORE it reaches singularity, let spacetime 'snap' back to normal, and watch the bodies fly, just like the striders in HL2 (if anyone played the game, the striders use a secindary cannon to blow up massive chunks of land).

My idea of a working black hole grenade was that it should cause a massive gravitonic implosion that would create an intense gravity well. This intense gravity well would suck in all matter feeding itself.

Then question is as you put it, Preda. How to make the gravity well snap back? One solution could be antimatter. Since the 'object' creating the gravity well consists of matter then expose it to antimatter and the result would be an total mass to energy conversion as an explosion of pure energy.

 

To achieve making this grenade would require hyper-energy knowledge in the lines of warp technology it's just the application of the technology that's different.

[Martian base commander]

Gringo.

 

I certainly think Plasma Grenades are the most logical choice for a future grenade,do you?As it exists as 2 forms it would first release as a gas moving at high speed,then engulf the target/s in an explosion of super hot liquid energy.

Pulse Grenades would be useful too,ideal for knocking the electricals out on armour for example,or stunning entrenched enemy forces.I think this would fall under the term of an EMP attack,which is nothing entirely new.

The laser method you mentioned before WAS in fact used by US special forces a few years ago I have read.They were on a mission in Somalia I believe,to rescue some diplomatic figure,and they used a prototype laser beam to blind/imobilise the enemy forces so they could then be neutralized.It was originally concieved as a non-lethal weapon,but I dont believe in non-lethal bullshit myself,only the destruction of the enemy.

The Germans were also developing sonic weapons during WWII apparently too.

 

So,all this technology has in fact been concieved for longer than we think

 

Wonder where it will all end...

[Crazy Gringo]

I certainly think Plasma Grenades are the most logical choice for a future grenade,do you?As it exists as 2 forms it would first release as a gas moving at high speed,then engulf the target/s in an explosion of super hot liquid energy.

Pulse Grenades would be useful too,ideal for knocking the electricals out on armour for example,or stunning entrenched enemy forces.I think this would fall under the term of an EMP attack,which is nothing entirely new.

The laser method you mentioned before WAS in fact used by US special forces a few years ago I have read.They were on a mission in Somalia I believe,to rescue some diplomatic figure,and they used a prototype laser beam to blind/imobilise the enemy forces so they could then be neutralized.It was originally concieved as a non-lethal weapon,but I dont believe in non-lethal bullshit myself,only the destruction of the enemy.

The Germans were also developing sonic weapons during WWII apparently too.

 

So,all this technology has in fact been concieved for longer than we think

 

Wonder where it will all end...

 

Plasma grenades....Maybe we should explore this site.

 

I found that 'laser grenade' you mentioned here. Not really what I had in mind....More deadly is more like it....Make the targets shadows be burn into the surroundings.

 

How it will end? UFO Aftermath and Aftershock?

[Preda]

My idea of a working black hole grenade was that it should cause a massive gravitonic implosion that would create an intense gravity well. This intense gravity well would suck in all matter feeding itself.

Then question is as you put it, Preda. How to make the gravity well snap back? One solution could be antimatter. Since the 'object' creating the gravity well consists of matter then expose it to antimatter and the result would be an total mass to energy conversion as an explosion of pure energy.

 

1. A gravity well is NOT made of matter. Humanity doesn't really know what exactly gravity is, so I cannot give you a straight answer, but it certainly isn't matter

2. You don't need to snap space back together. It does it by itself, just like an elastic membrane: you 'pull' it from the side, and anything that is on the other side when you let go of it would be hit. Now, the hitting part makes the difference: a membrane is considered 2D, so you can't get a perfect analogus from it (actually, there's no analogus to this effect in this whole Universe). When space snaps back, everything within it (air dirt, rocks) gets blown up and thrown around with great force. This is the same principle as warp, but NOT warp.

Warp weapons work like this: say you have a piece of paper, representing space. It has writing on it. If you rip it from the center, going to the sides, the writing is destroyed along with the paper. But while you cannot make paper whole again, time reverts back to normal on it's self. The damaged objects don't however.

[Crazy Gringo]

1. A gravity well is NOT made of matter. Humanity doesn't really know what exactly gravity is, so I cannot give you a straight answer, but it certainly isn't matter

2. You don't need to snap space back together. It does it by itself, just like an elastic membrane: you 'pull' it from the side, and anything that is on the other side when you let go of it would be hit. Now, the hitting part makes the difference: a membrane is considered 2D, so you can't get a perfect analogus from it (actually, there's no analogus to this effect in this whole Universe). When space snaps back, everything within it (air dirt, rocks) gets blown up and thrown around with great force. This is the same principle as warp, but NOT warp.

Warp weapons work like this: say you have a piece of paper, representing space. It has writing on it. If you rip it from the center, going to the sides, the writing is destroyed along with the paper. But while you cannot make paper whole again, time reverts back to normal on it's self. The damaged objects don't however.

 

1+2. You're right that a gravity well is not made from matter. But matter DOES create a gravity well in the elastic membrane that we call space. And if matter is condensed then you create an intense gravity well. So to release the 'pressure' of the matter on space you have to remove the matter as in converting it into energy using antimatter.

 

But let's not get into to a arguement over a lots of unknown and complicated things like Hyper-energy mechanics if there is such a research area and get on with the game. Which I see that you already have completed...

[Preda]

Yep . A fine game it is.

[Martian base commander]

I just wanted to start a small topic on Wargot strategies.

 

After doing lots of testing against the Wargots I have found that mines are very effective,generally because they come at you in waves and that careful planning of mines can be effective in destroying many of them,more importantly to try and knock their Power Armour out quickly.

I have also been looking at possible weapons that could be more useful against them too,instead of relying on AP rounds and HE rounds (they have good resistance to projectiles anyhow).I have come to the conclusion that Sonic Weaponry MAY be the key as far as weapons go.Here are my reasons.

After looking at various sites on the internet regarding Sonic Weaponry,it is understood that if sound waves of extremely low frequencies and if projected in a tight cone shaped field are directed at an object the resulting shockwave damage is enough to seriously vibrate and eventually damage it,namely buildings and metal plating.I imagine this game is no different when it comes to applying damage and I expect the developers knew about all this from the start.

Sonic mines therefore would be an excellent deterrant,and would do huge damage against armour like the Wargots.

British Cruiser ships use this technology today also,in the form of anti-frogmen devices to protect their ships.

As I have just manufactured my first Sonic Gun last night (for my PSI capturing unit),and my first Ultrasonic Gun (USG) I will hopefully post a few shots of the Sonic Weapons being used.

I am actually thinking of manufacturing a few USGs for my Heavy Mechanized Division (HMG) to be used as a sort of long range sonic artillery against the WGs.Slow reload times I appreciate that,but in sufficient numbers they could be very effective.

 

[Martian base commander]

Well,these next 2 shots will hopefully show the potential of the USG.

 

After annoyingly being deployed in a small room against the WGs I was anxious to burst free and set up outside where I had more space to maneuver.I directed USG fire on one of the walls and reduced it to rubble.Perfect for those quick exits!

https://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quickexit5ji.jpg

And this second one shows its more important features,its ability to do some fairly decent damage,at a good range too.75ft (Metres?) if I remember rightly.Even though its DESIGNED as a sniper weapon its excellent for long range bombardment fire against armour too,which is what im experimenting with.If one shot did over a 1000 damage to a single WG,imagine 3 shots on the same target!

The Psi in this shot had to be borrowed from one of my other squads as there is no effective sniper in this squad.

https://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sonicboom4oq.jpg

I am also producing 1000s of E-Cells now too to meet my rather high energy consumption demands

[Preda]

So, you have discovered Sonic guns. They are arguably the mostt efficient in the game (YES, better than warp), simply because they stun the enemy and/or incapacitate him, AS WELL AS doing damage. They'll be most useful against the cultists and those purple-raping clouds. Don't neglect the SG or the DSG (drone sonic gun), as they have the best stunning effect. I mainly used them for capturing missions, relying on bullets and plasma for other tipes of missions.

 

Oh, yes, and get drones as soon as possible. They have the most powerful weapon models, and iff you load'em up with E-cells, you'll hardly need troops any more.

[Martian base commander]

I reckon its a natural progression eh Preda?,troops being replaced by machinery.Its happening today slowly.

I still have humans in my squads though,as they do actually make decent soldiers if trained high enough,and can carry plenty of equipment for the squad.

Drones I think will become the new standard for front line fighting though now