How explosions work in the battlescape

[Hobbes]

I haven't tested it out much. In one instance, it crashed the game instead of loading, and I can't work out why. I plan on upgrading the package later, so I guess I mess with it then. If you run into trouble, just try blasting a few other UFOs and see if you have better luck. Lemme know if you spot a pattern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The reason why it crashed is because it went over the MCD entries limits. Like you said before there's a 256 (entry 0 also counts) MCD entries limit on the map files. Those are distributed like this: Blanks MCD + X-COM Craft MCD + UFO MCDs + Terrain MCD(s). So there's 2 (Blanks) + 65 (if it's a Skyranger, which has the biggest number of entries) + 106 (In the case of Harvesters/Supply Ships) = 173 entries. Therefore those terrains (Polar, Mountain, Jungle, Desert, etc.) can have a maximum of 83 entries. Yours have 100, therefore it will crash the game with anything bigger than a Large Scout.

[MikeTheRed]

Ah - Very well, very well!

 

I was typing a response saying I had trouble with two battleships but not a medium scout... then you explained, Hobbes. Thanks!!

 

Scouts are perfectly fine... since the terrain is all uniform, even a small map gives plenty of room to see/try whatever. So don't worry about it. Hell it means less set-up time

 

And I HAVE been able to get a brief test to work. VERY COOL!

 

Back to it!!!!

[Bomb Bloke]

Hmm... So that's it. I figured the tile limit would be 255, but instead of doing the math, I took a look at the original terrain sets and noticed that some of them went well over 100 tiles. So, I assumed that my tile set wouldn't have any problems.

 

Catch is, the terrains I looked at don't use UFOs... Whoops.

 

There are five different classes of UFO in terms of MCD usage:

 

1: Small Scout

2: Medium/Large Scout

3: Abductor

4: Terror Ship, Battleship

5: Harvestor, Supply Ship

 

The first two should work with the tileset. It would seem none of the others do.

 

The solution is to use the tileset somewhere where UFOs don't exist... A town or base mission, perhaps. On the other hand, there's enough space to drop a blaster bomb regardless, so I guess it will do for now.

[MikeTheRed]

I've blasted every explosive there is on your map, BB... everything performed as expected. I did find one small error in the outline I made for the Rocket Tank explosion, but that was all.

 

That was cool! BLAM and there it is.

 

I always figured blasts said a lot about their explosive. But you brought a whole new meaning to it

 

Oddly, the game would pause for about four seconds as if frozen at two points: when you hit the Turn button, and during Hidden Movement (with only 1 alien, normally this takes a second or two). I wonder what's up with that? This was without any fire or smoke that might've somehow been e.g. twiddling more tiles somehow. It must be running through all the possible tiles for each tile, each time?? Anyway, zero biggie.

 

There also was a noticeable pause between explosion and results, but that was entirely expected

 

I also tested all 3 incendiaries. Totally 0 effect on the ground tiles. I haven't studied them much but AFAIK that's how they're supposed to be.

 

Also FWIW, the overhead map did not show any change for virgin tiles vs. damaged tiles. I guess that's some other variable. No worries. Just an observation.

 

This map is also great for testing weapon damage vs. the ground, BTW. I might try some of that next.

 

I will be posting up my savegame (at a point ready for testing) and throw in your zip BB, on the XCOMUFO explosion thread soon.

 

Is there any way you can combine this with HE Block somehow? A simple "wall" (straight line of tiles) at least, if possible. Maybe 40 HEB? More ambitious stuff, if you can try.

 

BTW if you work on them some more, can you turn the 0 (zero) into a simple small dot or dash, or nothing at all? Mentally it's a tad easier to see outlines and stuff when tiles turn from (almost) nothing, into something.

[Bomb Bloke]

Ok, here's the new improved version. I stuck with using desert terrain, because let's face it, it's easier to start a UFO type mission then any other.

 

The main addition here is the editer, which you'll find in your terrain folder after you extract the archive.

 

When you load a desert map, all the tiles are first set to 0. When you hit them, they change. Even if you deal an exact 100 points of damage to a tile (bringing it back to displaying 0), the tile won't go back to this initial state, so don't let looks deceive you!

 

What the editer lets you do is edit the stats of this initial state, and the stats of all the other tiles, quickly and seperately. You can, for example, give the first tile an armor of, say, 100, and all the other tiles an armor of 1. Handy for getting an exact display of range quickly.

 

Or you can give tiles HE block. Since there are no 'object' tiles in use here, I'm not sure how well this will work. I'm tempted to throw an object or two in, though - then you could play around with Daishiva's map viewer (which is also an editor) and place things where you like. My editor won't let you create 'lines' or anything along those lines, sorry.

 

I also threw in an option to make things go 'bang', but I tried it, and it didn't work too well. Nevermind.

 

While I could set things up so the overhead map works correctly, I won't. I can't think of any practical reason to do so, and it's too much work for my taste. Yeah, sure it'd look cool, but that's about the limit of it.

 

I haven't noticed any slowdowns on my rig. I have a 1.5ghz CPU, what's your speed?

 

Oh, and a final note, you may have noticed that I tend to edit my posts often when I'm working on something like this.

[MikeTheRed]

Ok, sounds great...

 

Do I have to start a new combat or can I slide the terrain in over your other hacked set I'm using now?

[Bomb Bloke]

No need to start a new combat, changes can be made on the fly.

[MikeTheRed]

Excellent! Taking a whack at it now. Hey do you have MSN? I'm on my email addy, mikestar@speedfactory.net

[Bomb Bloke]

Ok, I've deleted the other versions from my posts, here the next.

 

The first tile you see in the terrain has an armor of 0. If you want to decrease the amount of damage done to all tiles by an equal amount, bump it up.

 

So you want damage to all tiles to be negated by 20, set the initial tile armor to 20, is what I'm saying...

 

More importantly, the desert11.map file now has a couple of walls and a clump of earth, sitting in the top left corner. You can use Daishiva's map editor (you need the Microsoft.NET framework!) to copy, paste and generally arrange these where you wish - and the mini editer I have provided in your map folder will let you set a few stats for them quickly.

 

Once you've set things up the way you want it, just start a few combat maps until the segment you designed crops up. Then you can test how walls and objects affect blasts.

 

Note that the walls and objects won't display 'damage meters' as the ground does. I'd recommend using them only to show the effects of HE block.

hacked_desert3.zip

[MikeTheRed]

I hope no one minds, but I have been posting the results of testing BB's fantastic numerical tileset in XCOMUFO because Zombie and I have been testing hard (him more than I), and the tile results greatly impact his work. Drop over and see some cool screencaps!

[MikeTheRed]

Ok, I've posted another edition of a saved game using your tileset, BB. Had to post to XCOMUFO because I don't have attachment rights here.

 

This one has a much better mix of walls and objects than my previous post. Most of it is the savegame, but you also have to unzip the TERRAINS and MAP zip contents into their respective XCOM directories. Make backups first. Everything needed is in the zip; just "added value" for your hacked_desert3.

 

Included are every weapon and object in the game I could get my hands on - Laser Tank and Plasma Tank are the only things missing AFAIK. It has Fusion Tank, Rocket Tank, 18 soldiers, and 3 stripped mutons lurking harmlessly in their medium scout.

 

Settings are: Secondary tile armor 1, wall and object HE Block currently 50, everything else 0. This means walls and objects are instantly blown away by the least damage, and then the tile beneath shows how much they were hit by. Of course, anyone can easily change tile settings with your little hack app. Also, you can shoot out walls and objects to make more patterns to play with.

[MikeTheRed]

I have updated the wiki re: HE Block. Comments or questions invited!

[Zombie]

I noticed that there is a new section in the wiki on Explosive Map Objects. Now, we all know that things like fuel drums and gas pumps explode when you shoot at them. So do navigation tables and fuel pods on UFO's and alien bases. All of these explosions vary in strength, and this is noted in the wiki. Since I never really tested explosive strength of objects, I decided to check it out on a downed Terror Ship.

 

It must be mentioned that I started these tests before I saw the comment which says "Also, X-COM units don't suffer damage from any of these objects exploding nearby them." First, I went after the fuel pod at Level 0 of the Terror Ship (UFO Fuel Pod #1). After editing my soldiers to have 150 health and no armor, I grouped 4 of them around the pod and shot at it with a Laser Rifle. 100 trials later, I got fed up and stopped because nobody got hurt. Man, I really wanted to see some carnage!

 

Now I sent 4 of my guys upstairs and tested out the white and red sphere on the bridge (UFO Pod). Again, nobody got hurt. As a last resort, I grouped my soldiers around the top and right of the east navigation table. See this picture:

 

 

If anyone but the person highlighted with the box shot at the upper-right (NE) corner of the table then no damage was inflicted. However, if the guy who is highlighted with the box shot at the NE corner of the navigation table, then the person with the arrow above them will get hurt. See this screenshot:

 

 

As you can see, that unlucky individual got hurt for 112 points of damage. I ran about 100 more trials and determined that the strength of the blast was an average 60 points, with the max at 120 (compare that to 40 which the wiki shows). It is pretty apparent that these explosions do not follow the usual rule of thumb, because the range is between 0 and 120, not the anticipated 30 to 90. Another thing which sets these explosions apart is the fact thet the blast is not directional and also is not an area effect weapon (at least to X-COM soldiers). Move the guy with the arrow 1 tile out, and he doesn't get hurt anymore.

 

Just some interesting points to ponder if you decide to shoot at a navigation table. (My pics also show that you can damage one section of the table without the whole thing going off in one big boom. The chain reaction only happens when you hit it with high explosive ammo or grenades).

 

[by the way, I split this off the Damage Modifiers topic. It's big enough to stand on its own now.]

 

- Zombie

[NKF]

Speaking of explosive terrain objects - how does one explain aliens dying mysteriously after a shot intended for them missed and hit a petrol pump (or fuel pod) instead? And they aren't standing near the pump.

 

I've seen it happen a few times, and it's left me completely baffled.

 

- NKF

[Zombie]

Aliens are not the same as X-COM units is one explanation. Hobbes and MikeTheRed are discussing this very issue in the wiki here. See MCD 54 for the specifics.

 

I would hazard to guess that possibly petrol pump explodes like a grenade does - to a certain degree. It might have the properties of the grenade with some area effect (?), because the unit doesn't have to be standing directly next to the exploding object to get hurt. Still, this is only conjecture at this point.

 

- Zombie

[Zombie]

Wait, you mean a ground tile gets turned into an object in mountain terrain?

 

Ah, I think you've just explained how the avenger ramp gets destroyed! It get overwritten by the new object!

 

*quickly researches the MCD file*

 

Yeah, you're right! The ground tiles get turned into objects. This means that if you destroy the ground, whatever object is in the tile also gets destroyed! (Or, gets destroyed instead).

 

I guess the simple way to test is to load up a mountain map and drop a blaster bomb.

 

*does so*

 

Ok! Confirmed!

 

Now, to answer your question directly, if there is no ground tile, there is no ground tile.

 

If there is no ground tile and the location is at ground level, the game is bright enough to put burnt ground there. That is to say, ground tiles are enforced at ground level.

 

So, in the case of mountain terrain, if you destroy a tile at ground level, an object takes it's place (object 76. You can see they should have used 77. They must have added an object, and not adjusted the indexes). The ground tile is removed - or, if it's at ground level, turned into burnt ground. The object is effectively added, in this later instance.

 

If an object already occupied that location (say, for example, the landing gear of your craft), it gets replaced by the new object instead (a burnt stump, in this case).

 

This isn't immediatley obvious, because if you aim a non-explosive weapon at your landing gear, you are very unlikely to hit the ground. You hit the craft itself, so nothing happens. If you use an explosive, you're likely to not only destroy the ground, but the stump which replaces your landing gear: so all that is left is the burnt out ground underneath. Blaster bombs tend to have that effect.

Time to bump this topic. I was thinking about the mountainous terrain the other day and how buggy it is concerning explosions or shots so I decided to do something about it. After a little bit of research into MCD files in the TERRAIN folder, I edited all the death tiles of flat "ground" to point to object 77 (scorched earth) instead of object 76 (stump-type). After applying the fix, I went into the game to check the differences. Yes, explosions now function normally and shots do not turn ground into stumps. You can find the fix in our files section here. Please take a look at the last two screenshots as they show the result of the patch (#2 is an unmodified "buggy" MCD file and #3 is the modified terrain).

 

Another problem fixed! Slowly but surely, we will have an updated game without any bugs or issues.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

Nice. Been planning on doing that myself ever since I made that post, never got around to it of course...

 

Lightning is also badly bugged. I wrote this proggie to help with problems along those lines.

[Quantifier]

Time to bump this topic. I was thinking about the mountainous terrain the other day and how buggy it is concerning explosions or shots so I decided to do something about it. After a little bit of research into MCD files in the TERRAIN folder, I edited all the death tiles of flat "ground" to point to object 77 (scorched earth) instead of object 76 (stump-type). After applying the fix, I went into the game to check the differences. Yes, explosions now function normally and shots do not turn ground into stumps. You can find the fix in our files section here. Please take a look at the last two screenshots as they show the result of the patch (#2 is an unmodified "buggy" MCD file and #3 is the modified terrain).

 

Another problem fixed! Slowly but surely, we will have an updated game without any bugs or issues.

 

- Zombie

 

This is not the only problem with mountainous terrain, also there are three wooden trunks (entries 71, 72 & 73), which in original version have incorrect "damaged tile" property (71->73, 72->74, 73->75). This needs to be bumped by one too. Maybe you could update your fix? I have ready file, if there's need.

[Zombie]

This is not the only problem with mountainous terrain, also there are three wooden trunks (entries 71, 72 & 73), which in original version have incorrect "damaged tile" property (71->73, 72->74, 73->75). This needs to be bumped by one too. Maybe you could update your fix? I have ready file, if there's need.

Nope, no need. It's a very simple fix.

 

So I updated the Mountainous MCD Fix in the files section so that the 3 stump objects have the proper death tiles now. Anything else, just let me know.

 

- Zombie

[Zombie]

When I was doing explosive tests along with MikeTheRed over at the xcomufo forums a while back, I would always use the desert landscape as a "testing bed" so that the strengths of blasts could be compared properly. Well, one thing I noticed was that one map module had a couple of tiles of sand which were just floating in mid-air. That bothered me for a while, so today I removed them and added a fix to our files section here. It's not a big improvement or anything, just a simple update for a long-overlooked glitch.

 

- Zombie