Bomb Bloke Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 My bet is they just decided not to use the image because it was too small, but couldn't be bothered removing it all together. There's all sorts of data like that left in the game. Alternate UFO designs, for example, and that spare grenade image... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 Okay, assuming that the small 3x3 image is not used anywhere then I'll need to revise my tables to show that. For the X-COM soldier: X-COM Soldier Tiles unitref[062] Size 0 0 0 1 4 0 2 8 5x5 3 12 7x7 4 16 9x9 5 20 11x11 6 24 11x11 7 28 13x13 8 32 15x15 9 36 15x15For a Sectoid: Sectoid Tiles unitref[062] Size 0 0 0 1 3 0 2 6 5x5 3 9 5x5 4 12 7x7 5 15 9x9 6 18 9x9 7 21 11x11 8 24 11x11 9 27 13x13 10 30 15x15 11 33 15x15 Therefore, the normal soldier only needs to traverse 8 tiles to create the maximum blip, and the Sectoid only needs to go 10 tiles. This also means that a tank will only need to move 1 tile to reach max blip size. I know, I said that a unitref[062] value of 30 and 35 looked like different sizes, but the problem is that those blips oscillate. It makes it tough to tell what the exact size is. And of course here is the base table with a hypothetical unit having a unitref[061] value of 5: Imaginary unit Tiles unitref[062] Size 0 0 0 1 5 5x5 2 10 7x7 3 15 9x9 4 20 11x11 5 25 13x13 6 30 15x15 7 35 15x15Sorry about that everyone, but I was under the mistaken impression that the Motion Scanner converted the blip sizes stored in the game to the images shown on the scanner. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danial Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 Does the 15x15 blip oscillate? Because if they oscillate up, then it'd have nothing to "up" to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 My suspecion is that is oscillates up. I could be wrong though. The same argument could be used for the 5x5 blip (the smallest). It sure can't oscillate downward because the next smallest blip is either nothing, or the never-seen 3x3 square blip. The game might not be overlaying another blip on top of the true blip size, so if this is the case then the game doesn't need addition blip sizes available - it just increases (or decreases) the size shown on the scanner screen. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 How about taking screenshots of the largest blip just to find out for sure? Depending on how fast the game updates, this can prove to be quite tricky. Perhaps the blips oscilates down with the 3x3 image and the next one up used as the smallest blip size. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 How about taking screenshots of the largest blip just to find out for sure? Depending on how fast the game updates, this can prove to be quite tricky. You're telling me. I tried grabbing a few screenies to compare by hitting F12 as fast as I could but all I got was a bunch of .tga pics which look the same. My computer runs way too fast. Perhaps the blips [oscillates] down with the 3x3 image and the next one up used as the smallest blip size. I don't quite follow you, NKF. The 3x3 square blip is non-existent and is never shown on the Motion Scanner either alone or in combination with the 5x5 blip. I mean, my computer is fast but I could tell if a square is present underneath the 5x5 image. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 It's there - the game just doesn't display it. I went and modified the images and gave most of them a 4 pixel arm that goes clockwise for each blip. Sure enough, each blip uses only two images, with the smallest 'visible' blip (or the blip for >= 8TUs Because the blips change sizes in multiples of 4, one could say that the blip for 4 TUs would be the 3x3 and 5x5 blip and for It makes sense, since it would give away positions of all units regardless of how little they've moved. So, the sectoid is one of the stealthier units... hmm. Not bad. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomb Bloke Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 What's with all those multiples of 4? I thought the blips changed based on multiples of 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I thought they were 4's? Oh, right, I didn't see the difference between 22 - 24. 5's it is then. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danial Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Sorry to dredge up a 2-year-old thread, but I was just browsing the Motion Scanner page on the Wiki and remembered this. Now reading through it once again, I have a few questions: 1) Was it ever figured out what the 15x15 blip oscillates up to? Could it be that 13x13 is the largest blip (oscillating up to the 15x15), making a total of 5 levels of detection? In other words, is there any visible difference in values higher than 25? (I know I'm pain, but I can no longer check these things myself ) 2) Is it only the Sectoid and Tanks that vary in UNITREF[61]? Were all other units checked? 3) What proven information from this thread can we put on the Wiki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 1) Was it ever figured out what the 15x15 blip oscillates up to? Could it be that 13x13 is the largest blip (oscillating up to the 15x15), making a total of 5 levels of detection? In other words, is there any visible difference in values higher than 25? (I know I'm pain, but I can no longer check these things myself )I'll have to check this again. I wonder if there is a variable somewhere which takes the value from unitref and carries that over to the motion scanner screen to determine blip size... if we ever found that, we could nail down if all the blips are used or not. My belief is that the 13x13 blip is the biggest and that just jumps up to the 15x15 blip. 2) Is it only the Sectoid and Tanks that vary in UNITREF[61]? Were all other units checked?Aye, Sectoids are 3, the other units are 4, and the tanks are 30. 3) What proven information from this thread can we put on the Wiki?The oscillating bit and mention something about unitref[061] and [062] (so far). - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 2) Is it only the Sectoid and Tanks that vary in UNITREF[61]? Were all other units checked?Actually, they were checked (and confirmed) indirectly when MikeTheRed and myself were deciphering the alien data in the executable. You can find a table with those numbers here. The Zombie also has a value of 4 even though it's stats aren't defined in the executable in the normal area. It's lucky the game passes that info to unitref.dat so that we wouldn't have to guess. - Zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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