UFO: Aftershock modding and patching!

[Slaughter]

Patch for UFO: Aftershock next week:

ALTAR's Martin Klima announced today at the official forum that the patch is most likely coming next week. The list of bug fixes is quite long, and should hopefully deal with most of the issues people has encountered. You can find the full list of bug fixes at the official boards.

 

Modding task force wanted!

ALTAR do not have the resources to provide proper modding tools for UFO: Aftershock. It is in everyone's best interest to get some proper tools however, so they've asked the community to help. If you are knowledgeable in SQL (preferably Postgre), Perl and VBA, and would like to help, the community and ALTAR would be very grateful! You can read ALTAR's proposal in this thread, and post question and comments in this thread. Modders unite!

[Pete]

Looks like a pretty thorough patch - good stuff! Certainly seems like it'll solve the minor problems I've been having anyway...

[Aralez]

I can't believe that Altar (after the bug-o-rama they delivered) now even breaks their last promise. I can remember very well that they promised that all fans will be amazed about the mod-tools when they are released. But of course they said the same about the stability and quality (bug-free this time ?) of Aftershock before the release. They haven't learned one bit..

 

God thx i did NOT trust them. I will never buy UFOAS. EVER.

[Accounting Troll]

I seem to recall feeling the same about Aftermath not long after it came out, but I grew to love it. I still haven't beaten it with the tough mod

 

As for the bugs in Aftershock, I've had a few minor bugs but nothing serious as yet. I'm just glad that Altar are trying to sort out the bugs instead of pretending they don't exist, which is what I've experienced some games.

 

As for the modding, there are already several minor mods for Aftershock out there despite the current lack of official modding tools.

 

Overall, I feel that Altar have pulled off the difficult balance of giving people a sequel that combines the good points of the original game with lots of good new things to keep you interested.

[Lurker]

I can't believe that Altar (after the bug-o-rama they delivered) now even breaks their last promise. I can remember very well that they promised that all fans will be amazed about the mod-tools when they are released. But of course they said the same about the stability and quality (bug-free this time ?) of Aftershock before the release. They haven't learned one bit..

 

God thx i did NOT trust them. I will never buy UFOAS. EVER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

--

 

I, the Lurker, was probably the one who was celebrating the loudest when Aftershock was announced.

 

I was certainly disappointed in August 2005 when I was told that there would be no US Release, no US Release that would be simultaneous with the rest of the WorldWide Release of Aftershock. My disappointment led me to a 'wait and see' attitude towards Aftershock. I wasn't going to buy an import.

 

Then the week after the release of Aftershock, I did experience a bit of shock and disappointment. I too had received assurances in both private and public, that things were destined to be different this time around with Aftershock. But, I have said to Aralez and others that I'm not going to get Aftershock if there are reports of Crashes to Desktop. With Aftermath, Altar never fixed the game-stopping bugs where the generated mission map had impassable bits every now and then, thus preventing you from getting to the other side of the ship or the other side of the mountain to finish the mission. And, there were still the occasional crashes to desktop with Aftermath, even after all the patches. When I saw reports of Crashes to Desktop with Aftershock, here and on Altar's site, I experienced a bit of shock and disappointment, and it only firmed my resolution not to get Aftershock if there are reports of crashes to desktop. I just don't have the time to beta-test a game or to the desire to go through the grief -- a personal decision on my part, nothing more.

 

--

 

Then while perusing the boards, both here and on Altar's site, I fell into the StarForce controversy and was once again a bit shocked or disappointed or taken aback. I had never heard of StarForce, but as the week passed, I became convinced that it is important to boycott StarForce games. Once again, a personal decision based upon my personal interpretation of the evidence, and nothing more.

 

On November 1, Pkovak wrote on Altar's site:

 

OK people, I am sorry but I thought this post will present you some UFO: Aftershock loading times with and without Starforce. I am sorry because it will have to wait. I have installed Starforce just few hours ago and now when I have some time I hoped I will do some tests. Unfortunately, Starforce completely messed my LG 4120 DVD recorder so now I can't read *any* DVD (I can read only CD now). So, please be patient until I get rid of Starforce once and forever or until I reinstall Win XP SP1. Both ways, I hope Starforce will disapear and my DVD recorder will work without flaws as before. George told me he has no prob with Starforce so I will assign these tests to him.

Good luck - better luck then in my case.

 

AND Pkovak wrote:

 

Starforce was a bad decission, in my opinion. I do not know who made it - Altar or someone else. I can only tell you that before I installed Starforce, my DVD's worked, now they don't work. Uninstalled Starforce via their utility, reinstalled all drivers, updated firmware - all in vain. Until now, my resistance against Starforce was only logical - it mess with your system and can cause harm. Now it's personal. Please, do not reply to this post, only through PM or ICQ, so we will not mess this thread with non-relevant posts.

It seem my DVD recorder doesn't work even in boot-up for DVD purposes, so I think I will have to go to shop and ask them for new DVD. I will tell them to send bill to Starforce team.

If you have find some solution, tell me via PM or ICQ.

Good luck and happy hunting (don't forgot Starforce team is good target practice).

 

REFERENCE: https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?showtopic=1299

 

AND now I the Lurker say, that time is only firming up my belief that it was a good decision on my part to join the boycott against StarForce. Again, it's only a personal belief based upon my reading of the evidence, and nothing more.

 

--

 

Regarding Aralez's comments, I will NEVER say never. But, I too will openly and honestly admit that I experienced a bit of shock and disappointment where Aftershock is concerned, especially during the week that it was released.

 

But, a US Release with no Crashes to Desktop and no StarForce being reported would be enough to make me change my mind and get me to buy Aftershock. On the other hand, if the StarForce remains and if there are Crashes to Desktop being reported even after all the patches, I really can't say that the 'good bits' of Aftershock will be enough to help me overcome my current objections or to draw me in.

 

Only time will tell if I will change my mind. I can only say for my personal self, that I was a bit shocked and disspointed during the Aftershock release, as the realization finally settled in that I may never have my personal reservations or objections resolved and I may, therefore, never get to play Aftershock. That was a bit of a blow for me, a shock or a disappointment that took me well over a week to adjust to. But, I may never get to play Aftershock, ever. I just have to accept that, and move on. Time, and only time, will tell.

 

I do appreciate PlacidDragon on Altar's site, and Pete and Slaughter here on this site letting us vent or rant without censorship, where this go-around with Aftershock is concerned. The open honest discussions will give us all a chance to make up our own mind, one way or the other, where Aftershock is concerned -- and we will do so in the light of information and according to our own conscience or feelings or beliefs. For me, where Aftershock is concerned, the jury is still out, though right now, it's not looking too good.

 

But, things can change.

 

--

 

EDIT BY LURKER: And, as another stab at topic or response to topic. I joined this forum to help Aralez mod Aftermath. It was a process that I wanted to be a part of. It was a great process and a great experience for me, a minor member of the Aftermath modding team. Recently, I missed having Aralez on these forums, and it looks like from his response that I will continue to miss having him on these forums. Aralez was the best modder here, the modder who actually finished the projects that he started, and he has been and will be missed. And, unless someone like him comes along to take his place, modding of Aftershock just won't be as successful as the modding of Aftermath was. But there is a vacuum to fill for someone who has the skill and the stick-to-it power of Aralez, now that Aralez is gone. We can never tell what might happen in the future. And, for some people, a really good Aftershock mod might indeed be enough to help them get over any reservations they might have about purchasing the game. Only time will tell how it will all turn out.

[Lurker]

Considering the amount of time I spent playing Aftermath (an extreme amount of time), and considering the amount of time I spent here on this website, I felt a personal obligation to let Altar know why I'm not going to be buying their game for now, and I felt a personal obligation to Pete and Slaughter to let them know why I wouldn't be involved in modding, for now.

 

As long as we are not censored or deleted or some such, I feel that I have fulfilled my obligation to both Altar and StrategyCore, where Aftershock is concerned. I have explained myself and my reason for being unresponsive to the call to mod, or my reason for not participating this time around. And, it looks like Aralez explained why he isn't joining the call to mod, right now.

 

So, there's not much more I can do right now. I just have to wait and see. We do the best we can.

[Pete]

Fair enough then guys, don't join in. Even though you're feeling let down and annoyed with bugs/tools and/or StarForce it's only yourselves that are missing out with this GREAT game.

 

Let's see, we've got no less than three alien races to battle aaginst, some more Transgenants, a tech tree that makes Aftermath's look miniscule in comparison, taking the fight to the enemy aboard their spaceships with your own spaceships, top-notch graphics and gameplay and much more besides.

 

It looks like the bugs in the game (that I've encountered at least, and there's only one or two big ones) are going to be fixed in the first patch this week. Remember that most games don't ship bug-free, though this isn't an excuse The problems I've heard of with Starforce only occur on a handful of systems (generally with older hardware) or relate to a much older version of StarForce (Pkovak possibly being the exception here as I don't know how old his hardware is or what version of StarForce he's had bad experiencess with).

 

If you haven't already, I'd suggest trying the demo for a taster of the coolness. The way around Starforce breaking anything would be to make a system restore point on WinXP, install the demo and if it breaks any CD/DVD drives, roll your system back to that point and it's as good as new.

 

As for the modding tools, I agree it is sad that ALTAR haven't had time to develop their own, but due to time constraints have had to focus their attentions on the game too get it finished in the timeframe given by the publishers. This game is very much more complex with a much more interesting and constantly-evolving storyline and it's got me hooked from the minute the intro rolled, so I'm personally not sorry they've focused their attentions on this.

 

Please, try and see your way to giving it a try and I pretty much guarantee you'll start ranting about the positive side of things. That system restore thingy should do the trick if you're armed with the knowledge in ADVANCE that it may react badly with your system, and y5ou can always send your sopy back and get a refund if it does and your computer will be back to normal

 

If not, then the modding community will have to come up with a worthy successor to Aralez with as much energy as he put into it. I'm convinced the modding community for Aftershock will be much larger than for Aftermath anyway so I'm sure we can look forward to some good solid mods either way.

[Pete]

Just spotted this as well which explains a little - the whole thread is worth a read, not just Martin's post: https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?s...t=0entry14114

 

Reading some people's vast eperience with games over the past two decades has given me quite an insight into how imperfect the gaming world is as well.

[Accounting Troll]

The dilemma Altar and Cenega faced reminds me of the development of X-Com Acopalypse. It was originally scheduled for release in 1996, but the schedule slipped by a year, and in the end it was a case of either releasing the game without some of the promised features that they hadn't managed to get to work right (such as kidnapping and interrogating a corporate executive suspected of being under alien control) or to see the whole project scrapped.

 

Altar are not a large developer, so it would have been a massive (and possibly fatal) blow to their finances if Cenega had pulled out of the Aftershock project after Altar had invested so much money into it over the last two years. After all, programmers and professional artists cannot afford to work for free because they have bills to pay.

 

Martin's post made particularly interesting reading. Most companies that develop games would never admit that their product is less than perfect. The normal process seems to run like this:

 

Stage one - relabel the bugs as 'features'

Stage two - blame the problems on MS Windows or the gamer's hardware

Stage three - release a £30 'add-on' that contains the patch and a couple of bonus features that were disabled in the original game at the last minute.

 

A good PR department can keep this going until the sequel comes out. The sequel will get good reviews because the company brought lots of advertising space in the gaming magazines, which means that sales will be strong. The company can then use the impending new title as an excuse to stop providing support for the old game.

 

I'm pleased that Altar have chosen the novel strategy of admitting that there are problems and trying to fix them as quickly as possible

[Lurker]

Pete Wrote:

 

(Pkovak possibly being the exception here as I don't know how old his hardware is or what version of StarForce he's had bad experiencess with).

 

 

I don't know how new or old Pkovak's hardware is either, but he was one of the Aftershock Beta-Testers, and he was running with a pre-release, StarForce Free or StarForce Unencumbered version of Aftershock that he got for free as a reward for being a beta-tester, when he decided to compare his version of Aftershock with a retail version of Aftershock. He wanted to see how much the StarForce slowed the load times.

 

Then the StarForce in the retail version of Aftershock killed his DVD reader, really slowing down the load times. This was November 1, 2005.

 

It was the latest or most recent version of StarForce in the current retail version of Aftershock that wiped out his DVD drive.

 

::

 

If you haven't already, I'd suggest trying the demo for a taster of the coolness. The way around Starforce breaking anything would be to make a system restore point on WinXP, install the demo and if it breaks any CD/DVD drives, roll your system back to that point and it's as good as new.

 

I was wondering if anyone has actually tried this System Restore thing and gotten it to work, because people have already proven on Altar's site that the StarForce uninstall doesn't completely uninstall StarForce. Alas, though, Pete is wrong again about one assumption. The StarForce actually destroys the hardware, and a careful reading of Pkovak and others's comments show that no amount of uninstalling, firmware updating, or reinstalling of the operating system, or system restoring can bring back damaged hardware once it has been destroyed by StarForce. On some machines and some hardware (certainly not all, or everyone would be boycotting StarForce) the DVD reader or the SATA HardDrive is permanently and irrecoverably destroyed. Now, some people might have gotten their SATA HardDrive back through a reformat of their drive and a reinstallation of the Windows XP, but these people aren't getting their DVD reader or DVD burner back. It's destroyed. Aralez just informed me yesterday that he realized just now after reading these posts that StarForce (not Aftershock) completely destroyed his DVD reader too a few months ago, and he had to go out and buy a new DVD drive. No amount of System Restoring will bring the DVD drive back once it has been destroyed.

 

So, I'm not sure if I want to gamble on the Aftershock Demo either. There's also indications that people who currently have more than one DVDROM/CDROM drive or more than one hard drive are currently experiencing the 'gotcha' aspect of StarForce and having grief. People need to be informed up front that StarForce might permanently damage their DVD burner.

 

Fair enough then guys, don't join in. Even though you're feeling let down and annoyed with bugs/tools and/or StarForce it's only yourselves that are missing out with this GREAT game.

 

Yes, I have to admit, at least for my part, that it is a bit of sour grapes. I'm feeling let down. But then again, for now, the question is kind of moot, because the US Release has been delayed for six months or so, and for awhile there, there wasn't going to be a US Release. So, I can't really join in all the fun, unless I want to buy a much more expensive import. I really don't want to pay a 'premium' price for Aftershock in its current condition. On the good side of things, the extra six month delay for us here in the United States will give Altar time to kill some bugs, and will give me time to see if all the crashes-to-desktop are really gone when I am finally able to buy the game. And, who knows? Maybe the worldwide boycott of StarForce will actually work and get their attention. And maybe, just maybe, Aftershock might be released in the US without the StarForce? I can still hope, and hope is a beautiful thing.

 

Anyway, I'll never say never. But, there are a lot of maybe's right now, even for me.

 

--

 

Finally, I too always seem to find Martin's comments to be very informative. The only thing that I ever saw Martin get really wrong was his understanding of StarForce. People are being conditioned or trained to believe by the StarForce developers and the StarForce advertisers that StarForce is completely harmless -- but in fact, StarForce is more accurately described by the HitchHiker's Guide's description of Earth, "Mostly harmless." Those who experience the 'dark side' of StarForce know that it isn't completely harmless. And the fact that StarForce actually destroys the DVD hardware when StarForce strikes making recovery completely impossible, or the fact that StarForce wipes out a hard disk when it strikes making booting impossible and a reformat mandatory, kind of tells you that the StarForce isn't completely harmless. And, this 'fun' little gamble with StarForce is going on even to this very day with Aftershock, as Pkovak's experiment demonstrates. We just don't know how many other DVD players and DVD burners are out there right now waiting to be permanently destroyed by StarForce -- but be sure to grab your towel before you stick out your thumb to hitch a ride.

 

::

 

::

 

EDIT:

 

Another link to various complaints or disappointments in general, including StarForce.

https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?showtopic=914&st=45

 

The StarForce Rant, both here and over there, where people tried their best to dispel the assumptions of safety and tried to point out people's inaccurate assumptions. The StarForce advertising really is working, as I still believe that the majority of people think that StarForce is completely safe or that StarForce does absolutely no permanent damage:

https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/index...?showtopic=4399

https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?showtopic=865

[Pete]

Well they're doing something wrong then if their hardware is getting destroyed completely. That's just not possible - reinstalling everything or simply doing a system restore should bring it back. There's hardware and there's software - I just don't see how that's remotely possible unless they're inept at making backups and/or restoring/reformatting their system? The only possible way that I can see that Starforce could get around a complete and thorough reformat (in the most extreme case) is if it put something in the BIOS, and I find that even more unlikely.

 

I would have thought that most people who'd encountered the Starforce problems wouldn't have made a system restore point anyway as they weren't expecting anything to go wrong - hence why I mentioned it as it's saved my ass in the past with drivers (Microsoft I might add) that were supposedly safe for my system ended up making hardware (modems, LAN cards etc. and the like) not work. A system restore later and it's all okay as it restores the complete registry from the restore point - which I think is one of the areas Starforce is apparent most.

 

Anyhow, it might be an idea if we had a list of how old people's DVD drives were as well as their hard drives, and also makes and models to plot a trend... anyone up for that?

[Kret]

I'm for that, but on another thread perhaps?

[Lurker]

Anyhow, it might be an idea if we had a list of how old people's DVD drives were as well as their hard drives, and also makes and models to plot a trend... anyone up for that?

 

--

 

I, too, have wanted to see more details of the specific hardware, make and model of DVD and Hard Drive and Motherboard that were associated with these crashes or broken hardware.

 

Another part of the problem is that some of the older games that scrambled SATA hard drives are still out there. Those old games and old versions of StarForce are still catching people unaware and erasing or wiping out their hard drive, even though the problem has supposedly been fixed in the most recent versions of StarForce. There's still the old stuff out there, and nobody is getting enough warning that it might in fact wipe them out. Only a blanket ban or boycott of all StarForce is sufficient to protect in all cases.

 

And, apparently, the DVD destruction issue still hasn't been solved, even to this day. The StarForce makes DVD and CD drives do things that many of them really weren't designed to do. It's just that some of them are asked to move in such a way or read in such a way that it actually breaks them. They, apparently, were never designed to move in that way in the first place. That's the only way I can think of that they are being damaged, and a reinstallation of their firmware can't bring them back, because they are literally broken. The user gets angry, goes out and buys a different brand of DVD in rebellion, and that new brand just luckily happens to be able to move in the way that StarForce requires or is under warranty if it breaks, and nobody knows that it was the StarForce that had killed the former DVD drive until months or years later.

 

Other people in other threads have gone into much more technical explanation as to how it breaks the DVD drives. I just know from what I have read that it has been reported (and documented) to do so.

 

And some have reported their CPU or power fans going off or stopping working after installing StarForce, but I haven't heard so much of this complaint, though someone was complaining of it on Altar's site.

 

StarForce goes low-level, which is why so many people hate it and are fighting it. It goes right to the innards of the machine.

 

--

 

Kret wrote:

I'm for that, but on another thread perhaps?

 

Yes, the most appropriate current thread for this list of StarForce Disasters would be:

https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/index...?showtopic=4399

 

--

 

But, I will create a new thread, and then come back and edit this message.

 

--

 

EDIT:

 

THE NEW PLACE to report your documented personal experiences with StarForce:

https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/index...?showtopic=4486

 

Pete, please pin up the new thread if you will, edit my rules or parameters as you see fit, and then let them tell us their personal experiences in detail, as time goes on.

[Pete]

Pinned. I'll re-read it more carefully when I get five mins but it loks alright

[martin]

I can't believe that Altar (after the bug-o-rama they delivered) now even breaks their last promise. I can remember very well that they promised that all fans will be amazed about the mod-tools when they are released. But of course they said the same about the stability and quality (bug-free this time ?) of Aftershock before the release. They haven't learned one bit..

 

God thx i did NOT trust them. I will never buy UFOAS. EVER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I must say that I was taken aback by strict condemnation. I am not going to deny it: obviously the game has bugs, otherwise we wouldn't be working on a patch. Nor I am going to explain why it is so, it was pointed out even in this thread, and in many other places besides it. Suffice to say that I am actually quite happy about the game we shipped, despite the bugs. Our choice was either fewer features and fewer bugs or more features and more bugs, we chose the latter, reasoning that the bugs can be fixed, but no feature can be added later in a patch. In ideal world we would have all the features and no bugs, but in such a world Cenega would have to have in excess of 200k preorders.

 

You might say that we should be more careful about planning the project and promising features, and I can but wholeheartedly agree with you. In an ideal world, we would have a complete game design before the first line of code is written, but this would add another year to development time.

 

Back on topic of the modding tools. I might have promised something along the lines you suggest; I don't remember and am in no mind to search out. Obviously, this was the impression I made. The reality is that, as opposed to Aftermath, our internal tools were much more sophisticated and made designing the game much easier (i.e. possible). However, they are also complex and difficult to set up.

 

I have no problem with releasing the toolkit 'as is': PostgreSQL and ActivePerl are OpenSource projects, everybody can download and install them. Everybody has Excel. Once you manage to get it up and running, you will find it is easier to make modifications: add new items, modify their properties, models, etc. than it was in Aftermath. It was only my naive assumption that there are people in the modding community who would be interested in evolving this toolkit.

 

But I am really sorry if you feel that we betrayed your trust. The modding tools will be released, they will be more powerful; it is yet to be seen how easy to use they will be and when they will be available.

[Lurker]

Martin, thank you for your response. I like hearing from you.

 

--

::

--

 

I asked Aralez for specific sources of his complaint or specific examples.

 

Aralez wrote a message to me and said, "Maybe you want to post this?"

 

--

 

30. Computer Games Romania: What about the modding community? It is well known that the fan base can keep a game alive many years after its release.

Jiri Rydl: That's true and we work on improved modability of UFO: Aftershock. We believe our fans will enjoy this game long after its release.

 

https://www.computergames.ro/site/p/article...aftershock.html

 

GamersInfo.net: Your website mentions a modding kit. What types of things does this enable the community to do?

Jiri Rydl: We want Aftershock make open enough to see a new mod every half year! But more seriously - we want to release modding tools for changing almost anything in the game from soldiers and mutants skins to new weapons and effects.

 

https://www.gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:459

 

End of what Aralez wrote to me.

 

--

::

--

 

I, the Lurker, personally was looking for the talk about the 'modding kit' on your Altar website (I remembered and latched onto it long ago, but now don't know where it was at), but Aralez remembered and found other things.

 

Anyway, that explains in part the 'strict condemnation' that Aralez was expressing. He had very high expectations where Aftershock was concerned, and to be honest, so did some of the rest of us. And, other interviewers apparently have latched onto the promises regarding a robust modding kit in their interviews with your people.

 

I personally am not ruling out a purchase of Aftershock -- if there is a US Release, no StarForce in the US Release, and the patches really do knock down or knock out the crashes-to-desktop, then I can see myself buying and getting involved.

 

People will mod, or they won't mod. Time will tell how that turns out. But Martin, the more robust the modding kit you deliver, the more people will tend to mod, or at least that's how I see it.

 

The modding for Aftermath really didn't get going until two, three, four months after Aftermath shipped. So, as I see it, we won't really start seeing serious modding with Aftershock until two or three months from now, until after a patch or two or maybe three have been delivered -- just like with Aftermath.

 

However you should know right now, if you wait for the modders to make the tools, like you did with Aftermath, it might take them more than a year to make some of the tools, or they might not make them at all. I have suggested more than once that you contact Aralez or Sigget and hire them to make specific tools or make specific mods or mod kits. I can't remember who made the Milkshape tool for Aftermath, but that's the person you want to contact if you want a similar tool made for Aftershock. Contact them and hire them to do the job in a timely fashion, if you want modding up and running in a timely fashion. And, if there is license concerns, you can work up other compensation for their efforts besides monetary compensation -- a free game, a trip to your headquarters, a current version of your game without the StarForce that your beta testers are getting for free, or being made into an honorary beta-tester, etc. Again, that's how I see it. Timely development of tools equals timely development of mods.

 

People really don't want to mod until they have a stable base to build upon -- I have seen that message here and on Altar's forum and even on Relic's forum the last couple of weeks or so, since Aftershock and Winter Assault were released. A week or two ago, Slaughter started up a separate thread on your Altar site (and here I think) calling for the modding to begin. The overall response I saw to Slaughter's call to mod at the time was, "Let's wait until there is a patch or two and the bugs are gone, before we start modding." The 'Call to Mod' isn't working right now in small part due to the fact that there isn't a stable base yet, upon which to build. I, too, can see that changing in time.

 

Martin Wrote:

It was only my naive assumption that there are people in the modding community who would be interested in evolving this toolkit.

 

There may well be people in the modding community who will want to be involved, but you have to get the attention of the right people, and don't be too surprised if they demand that you first supply them with something stable to work with, before they start working. They don't want to have to keep redoing their work over and over again as you keep supplying new patches over and over again. When it comes to modding, a lot of it depends upon timing.

[Accounting Troll]

Lurker, before you assemble the lynch mob, I would like to point out a few things.

 

1. Those interviews are dated. One interview is over a year old, and the other interview is six months old. That's a pretty long time when we are talking about a two year project. Things do change over the course of a project. I do not regard modding tools to be as high a priority as getting the game out with as many features and as few bugs as possible.

 

2. If you look at the wording of the interviews, Jiri did not promise anything. He said that Altar wanted to make Aftershock more moddable, but he did not go as far as to actually promise that some modding tools would be released, or that they would be released with the game. A promise that was never made or even implied cannot be broken!

 

3. Several minor mods for Aftershock have already been released. Maybe the current lack of official modding tools is not such as a big challenge as you think?

 

4. While nobody is going to want to start a major modding project until the game is stable (I remind you that Altar are planning to release a patch in a matter of days), neither are they going to make any extensive mods until they heve played the vanilla game to exhaustion. Aftershock is so large that I doubt many people have completed it yet.

 

5. Neither you nor Aralez have brought a copy of the game yet.

 

It costs US$40 to get Amazon.com to import it from their UK division, which isn't bad because the UK retail price is around US$40, although some retailers offer it for less.

[Pete]

I'd also like to point out that Martin mentions that they are willing to release the tools neccessary for modding which they used to create the game itself.

 

ALTAR are only looking for helpers to make the current system easier to use, not create something new from scratch.

 

To quote from Martin's request for helpers on the UFO boards:

We now want to know if there are some fans of the game that would undertake the necessary simplification and streamlining of this system.

 

and

 

The reason why we are not releasing the whole bundle 'as is' is that we do not think that it can be used without extensive explanation and cooperation on our part. We would like to make it more accessible first, then release it, but unfortunately we do not have the resources to do it on our own.

 

So the tools are there and always have been. The fact that they haven't had time to streamline them themselves is hardly surprising given the tight deadlines Martin talks about above.

 

I would also ask that if Aralez wishes to comment that he speak for himself. I don't mind you relaying his messages, it just looks a little odd when he merely has to log in and make a post.

[Lurker]

I would also ask that if Aralez wishes to comment that he speak for himself. I don't mind you relaying his messages, it just looks a little odd when he merely has to log in and make a post.

 

For awhile there, Aralez couldn't sign in and post here. For awhile there, he sincerely believed that he had been banned or was being censored or was being prevented from signing onto the boards.

 

But, as we can all see, he finally got through, up above.

 

And Pete, I too, agree. I have said a number of times to Aralez in my personal email to him, "Sign in and tell them what you are thinking. It will be a lot more legitimate and useful if it comes from you than if it comes from me. And, it won't look so funny." I even said as much in an email message to Aralez ten minutes before I signed on here just now and read your message. I, too, think it looks funny or strange when I post for him or quote him.

 

But, for awhile there Aralez was telling me that he couldn't get through, and that when he did get through, the forums were acting funny or not letting him sign-in or not letting him post. He thought that he had been banned. So, he sent me instead. As a friend to Aralez, I complied, and did what he requested. Maybe not being able to log-in and post is partially the reason why he was so 'forceful' or 'vigorous' in his response up above when he finally did get through -- pent up frustration?

 

There's always a sub-text.

 

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5. Neither you nor Aralez have bought a copy of the game yet.

 

I'm really not interested in forming a lynch mob. I consider myself as neither a dedicated fan of Altar nor as an enemy of Altar. In fact, I'm feeling rather detached or impartial as of late. But, I do think that it is important for Altar to know what our reservations are, to currently know why Aralez and I (and others) have not bought a copy yet. That's what is useful for Altar, and that's what I personally believe that Altar needs to hear and personally think shouldn't be censored away. (As far as I can tell, nothing here in this thread has been censored, which I believe is a good thing.) Altar needs to know, occasionally, what their potential customers are really thinking. That's the only really useful thing that Altar gets from these forums, in my humble opinion.

 

I thought that Martin's clarification of the issue was very useful. He straightened us all out and let us know that there are tools and that promises will indeed be kept, and that he was only looking for people to beta-test the tools or to polish the tools before delivery. That was a useful message or a useful response, in my humble opinion.

 

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The modding thing and Aftershock in general reminds me of the movie "Field of Dreams." If you build it, they will come. If there are mod tools released and the game is stable or provides a stable platform upon which to build, they will come and mod. I can see it happening.

 

Now, the movie and the famous saying doesn't fit in every situation, though. Some people can't affort baseball tickets, so they won't come, even if you build it. Other people have other reservations or limitations. And the only way that those reservations or concerns can be dealt with or responded to is if those people are free to express their reservations or limitations, and then the owners of the baseball field are made aware of their concerns.

 

My reservations or concerns -- no US Release of Aftershock or a late US Release, StarForce on the DVD, and crashes to the desktop being reported in the game. Those are the things that are currently keeping me out of the 'Field of Dreams' where Aftershock is concerned. I think it is good for Altar to know that. They need to know from time to time what their potential customers are really thinking and why they are not buying. That's what I believe.

 

I think Martin knows now. I have done my part or fulfilled my obligation to Altar. There's nothing more I can do now, other than to wait for my 'Field of Dreams' to be built and delivered to me -- or not.

 

Time will tell.

[Pete]

Unfortunately for your situation Lurker, there's a 99.99% chance that the US version will ship with Starforce. I'm leaving the 0.01% chance it won't as it's not actually hit the shelves yet, but from what I hear from very reliable sources, the US version will be identical to the UK version but with the Tri Synergy logo on the box.

[SBOY]

I bought the game and it is buggy though not that bad. It reminds me of the early Xcom games which is a compliment.

Starforce is a real problem and a huge mistake by Altar sadly though the game makers take no responsibility for this and point you in the direction of the Starforce team.

I bought the game from them though they feel I have to take up their problems with Starforce not good enough.

I posted about Starforce problems on Altar's official forum but they deleted my posts and sent me an email telling me that they did not wish this type of post.

I would like to thank Aralez for all the mod work he did on Aftermath class stuff.

If people wish to take a real chance with their DVD firmware (because of Starforce) and operating systems then the game is excellent much better than Aftermath a big step in the right direction (that is back to the old style gameplay of XCom Terror from the deep).

I have been playing and buying games for over 12 years now and spend a lot of money on them over $300 a month so you would expect that the companies would be interested in my thoughts but no they just want to delete my posts.

Anyway to the original point if people like Aralez can help out I implore them to do just that.

The game is excellent, could be much better with Mod input. The protection is dangerous and destructive, but I am fortunate to be in the position to take a money hit if the Starforce protection destroys my DVD or upsets my operating system.

Excellent game, pathetic protection choice, needs Modders help please.

[Pete]

I would just like to point out for folks in general that the main StarForce thread on the Aftermath forums was closed as it was going nowhere. The last post there requested people to stop posting about Starforce as the topics just weren't constructive, though you'd have to have had a keen eye to spot that request. This will be why the topic was deleted.

 

We do have a couple of topics here for Starforce errors and discussion if you want to discuss it in a constructive manner ie. posting any errors cyou've encountered, responses to contact with Starforce themselves etc.

 

A final note is that the copy protection affecting some poeple's systems is nothing to do with the game itself save from the fact that the copy protection is shipped with the game and required to start it up - it's a separate piece of software and that's why youll have been told that you're better speaking to Starforce directly.

 

I'm not trying to start off on a downer, and I'm by no means defending Starforce, but I've seen the first threads on Starforce on those fourms and know why they were closed

 

Anyhow, I completely agree on the mdding side of things, but it looks like most folks are waiting for the first patch later this week (I think it's this week) before they begin. They're certainly eager to start, though Aralez has stated that he won't be buying the game for several reasons.

 

Still, I'm fairly confident that teh rest of the modding community will come up with some cool stuff over the next few weeks and months

[Slaughter]

I don't think anyone delete bug reports in the support forum on StarForce. General topics talking about it will be deleted however, as it's been discussed to death. Some may think this is unfair, but ALTAR got the message, and the topics just repeated themselves.

[SBOY]

Thanks pete for your reply I was not expecting one.

Pete

"it's a separate piece of software and that's why youll have been told that you're better speaking to Starforce directly.

Not really a seperate piece of software would imply that the game can run easily without it which it cant as you know.

Me contact Starforce directly..hmm not really as Altar intrinsicly linked their prog to this software. I would not have any issues if the y did not.

Altar are in fact also responsible as it is they who chose the protection and forced it onto the end user me.

Discussed to death yeah well I am sorry about that I can understand why it would be boring for people to continually read the same old stuff over and over.

Thing is though I am an Admin and Mod on many very large forums and read the same old stuff over and over but treat it like new as it is to that person.

 

I am sorry if this is cross - topic, dead topic or just plain boring. I like this site and do not wish to upset any of the owners or trusted members.

Lastly I have taken this up with Starforce on many occassions and I am not unaware of the integral workings of their software so I will not argue with anyone on technical points; they have their views and I have mine.

I no longer run the game with their software so for me the problem is solved. I was just thinking of Altar and hoping they saw the light and how they were hurting their future sales of any new product.

 

On a more interesting point I am glad you all believe that people will join the Modding bandwagon at leaast that is good news

[Pete]

It's guaranteed after the first patch. There's already a few small mods to change various things in our files section if you want to check them out, so it's looking positive