Why I hate Star force! *rant*

[ricardo440]

Well my computer has crashed more times in the last hour than in the whole of a weekends play.

I don't know why for sure but I think it is the Starforce drivers.

 

I am informed if I want to remove the game, I will have to go to Starforce website to download the uninstal program to get rid of starforce That really pisses me off.

 

I hate copy protection, it only actually annoys the legitimate users. Back in the days when you had to write a line from the manual into the game to start. They never even told you if the title counted as the first line or not. Arghh.

Then you dig out the game a year later, and you can't find the manual. Then you have to get a crack for the game anyway to play the game you paid for.

 

 

If it wasn't for piracy I would never ever have bought UFO:AM and hence UFO:AS

 

I had never heard of it, but I had written a tabletop wargame based on UFO:EU. A mate of mine found UFO:AM on the internet, and because he knew I liked the other games he copied it for me. I played it for ages, and really enjoyed it. When I saw it in game a year later I bought it because I thought they deserved my money.

If I hadn't had that copied game I would never have bought it, and I would never have bought the sequel.

 

What are the best games people remember. Things like HAlf life. WHY? Because they were pirated around the globe a million times. You can't buy advertising like that. The people buy the add on packs, and the sequel. It is not as if you are stopping the people who really want to pirate the game from taking it with any copy protection. It will never work.

 

There was some research recently that said people who copy music, spend the most on CDs. Appart from the occasional person who never spends a penny on CDs and copies everything, most people who copy stuff are the actual market for CDs in the first place. They wouldn't copy them if they didn't like them. Every single person I know who pirates music has a big CD collection of real CDs. They pirate stuff off friends that they would not normally buy. I got into several artists that way, and if there stuff is good then I might buy the next album they release. If it wasn't for piracy I certainly would never have listened to them, so would never have spent £12 on a CD I had no idea what it would be like.

Every time you use something annoying like Starforce you are just pissing off the people who actually fund the entire market.

 

All I want to do is play this rather ammusing game, but no I can't because it keep crashing.

 

BASTARDS!!!!!

[Darkfyre]

It's one way to ensure people reboot before playing, but I agree on that the copy protection is a pain in the ass. Most games I've got only really need the CD in the drive in order to play once the CD-Key has been entered, either on installation or first use, UFO:AS and others that use this copy protection have that Star Forge BS come up every single time you start the game, as if you're going to have changed the CD/DVD between one run and another short of shit happening.

 

I also empathise on the copy protection issue with the old stuff where you have to get things to get older stuff working. I have three games from the last decade or so where the copy protection was missing when I bought them, as in, second hand purchases and previous owner removed the copy protection, or firsthand ones where they didn't put the damn CD-Key in. I also have a game that I used to own and could only find on an abandonware site that I downloaded and have been running, problem is there's obviously no manual in that and you need the manual for finding passwords at certain points in the game. Erm... I know one is when you enter the woods since that's the one that fucked me up this time, there's another, I think when you enter the next overground area, might be a third later than that.

 

I'll admit I do have pirated stuff here, there are three reasons for it; the software is too damned expensive to purchase either because of others pirating so I've had to jump on the band wagon or because of who produces it Microsoft being both. I can't find the damn software anywhere except on the net anyway and I honestly don't want to shit around buying it off somewhere like Amazon or Ebay, or, if the game is out where I can buy it, it's currently too expensive and I want to play it but don't want to buy it at that price or it's out in some countries but not mine. The last situation is what I'm in currently with Black and White 2 and Age of Empires 3, I will buy at least AOE3, probably B&W2, but as things stand, B&W2 is out but beyond my price range currently and AOE3 is out elsewhere but not, to my knowledge, in the UK.

 

On the music front, again, I've got copied music files on my comp, most from CDs I've bought but some from CDs my sister has bought and a few from a friend of mine in the States, who got a rather late present off a Canadian we know which included a CD with those songs on it, the Canadian probably bought the original CDs off Firebird Arts at some point and because the American, and I, both like the author whose world those songs are for in the majority, she copied them to my American friend, who then sent them to me. At some point, I'd like to buy the actual CDs for that, problem is that I've no money and dislike net transactions in the main.

[Louis]

I have heard so many bad things about Starforce that I am actually very reluctant to buy the game.

 

Money is not really an issue for me, but the last thing I want is endless operating system problems associated with copy protection. And I most certainly do NOT want to visit some odd website in order to un-install software that I did not want in the first place.

 

Much as I think I would enjoy the game (after the bugs are ironed out) I am most reluctant to buy it.

 

Someone please convince me I am wrong

[ricardo440]

Despite my rant it is jolly good fun.

 

The bugs are a problem, but I am happy to give this particular firm some money.

[Pete]

I don't understand everything that's said about StarForce. Okay, so in some cases it seems to cause trouble with people's systems, but so much I've heard about it appears to be rumours.

 

Granted I haven't haard any of this here, but if it'll put people's minds at ease...

• It only seems to run when the game is run - it's not loaded the rest of the time and is only triggered by Aftershock (or Dawn of War for that matter if I reemmber correctly... or any other game it comes bundled with).
  
• It can't be spyware as no games company would touch it with a ten foot barge pole.
  
• It only seems to cause problem for a handful of unlucky people. Even without this programme, some games won't run for a handful of people on a handful of systems.
  

Now, I'm with the majority over copy protection. It'll eventually get cracked anyway and therefore is only delaying the inevitable by a few months, but most folks who'll be interested in the game will buy it anyway.

 

My view is though that if I want to play a game enough, no copy protection system shrouded in rumours is going to put me off buying it.

[Darkfyre]

And a fair number would buy an original copy even if they do have a pirated version.

 

On the Starforge front, it's annoying, to me, to have the copy protection stuff come up every time you start the game. I don't have that problem with Homeworld 2 or Dawn of War, both of which are Relic software, nor with most of my rather large collection of PC games. Only had one crash so far, though I've had some problems with other programs minimising UFO:AS while I'm playing... *shrugs* happens with other games too, not something I can do much about.

[Nutguy]

And a fair number would buy an original copy even if they do have a pirated version.

 

ditto the above. Plus, any game is bound to sell just about the same number of copies anyway. People who systematically play cracked games would never, ever, buy the original in the first place.

 

as far as I'm concerned, there's only one issue with obsessive copy protection (like Starforce). The inability to mount an image of the game on your HD so you won't have to wear the poor CD down from excessive use (which is bound to happen). Of course that's 'cause I can live with a crash or two as far as games are concerned.

[Pete]

Hehe, I too used to like putting the CD image no my PC using Nero ImageDrive or some such programme. Access times were quicker too (obviously).

 

Oh well... I'm sure StarForce will become obsolete in future along with any other copy protection of past years...

[watchtower]

Hehe, I too used to like putting the CD image no my PC using Nero ImageDrive or some such programme. Access times were quicker too (obviously).

 

Oh well... I'm sure StarForce will become obsolete in future along with any other copy protection of past years...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Although these copy protection systems can be a pain to a few people but they are needed. It is the only way you will get new games developed on the PC.

 

A case in point are the games produced by Matrix Games. matrixgames.com

 

These are excellent war games that are in some cases only bought by 2000 - 20000 people. So copy protection is a must. The protection is in the form of a serial # issued with the disc or with a digital download. The number is held in your account on their servers. At the moment they have about 30 specialised games and a truly excellent customer support service.

 

This is the way that specialised games including this is one, have to go.

 

Piracy kills games unless you sell about a million copies.

 

Generally most that complain about protection are those that use copies or have some conflicting issue in thier overloaded, underspeced, badly maintained rigs.

[Accounting Troll]

Personally I think it would b easier to distribute photographs of the bloke Slaughter and Pete caught trying to download Aftermath illegally

[ricardo440]

I don't buy that.

Those 2,000-20,000 would buy it anyway, then there will be another 2,000 like me who randomly are given a copy of UFO:AM and go this is quite fun, then see it and buy it because I played a ripped version.

[Kernel]

[*]It only seems to run when the game is run - it's not loaded the rest of the time and is only triggered by Aftershock (or Dawn of War for that matter if I reemmber correctly... or any other game it comes bundled with).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope, it's installed as a non-plug and play system driver that's loaded everytime Windows boots. Goto your Device Manager, click View, and Show Hidden Devices. Then scroll down the list until you find the "Non-Plug and Play Driver" section and you'll find up to 3 Starforce devices in there. An Environment Driver, A Helper Driver and a Syncronization Driver.

 

Whatever you do, DO NOT manualy delete them from the device manager. That's what screws up your system ( I know, I tried it ) the uninstall program can be found on the Starforce website but it will be installed again the next time you run the game. The game can't run without them.

 

Other than my manual attempt at deleting them, before I knew what they were ("Hey, I didn't install that... *delete*"), I have never had any problems with them.

[Louis]

When my system is idle - i.e. I am not running any application software 250MB of RAM are being utilised!!!!!!

 

In other words that much memory is tied up just with the operating system and its associated drivers. I have made attempts at various times to clean this up by manually removing unwanted drivers but this is wrought with risk.

 

For the uninitiated there is no way of telling what is important and what is just spam. Operating system bloat is a huge problem. Starforce adds yet another load, again permamnently reducing RAM that could otherwise be used for something more useful eg. actually running the game.

[watchtower]

I don't buy that.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So What have you bought?

 

I never play a ripped game on the principle that it is theft!!!

[Lurker]

Pete, part of your information is wrong.

 

Dawn of War uses SecuRom:

https://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=108574

WinterAssault uses SecuRom:

https://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=150008

 

So, just because DoW is safe and doesn't mess up your system, doesn't mean that Aftershock is safe and won't mess you up. Aftershock uses StarForce. StarForce is not the same thing as SecuRom.

 

Anyway, it kind of made me nervous when you lumped DoW in there with Aftershock in your copy protection discussions -- you were kind of contributing to the rumors.

 

StarForce is the only copy protection scheme that is being actively banned by the User Community, and they have a variety of reasons for doing so.

 

Here's a current list of the games that uses the boycotted StarForce:

https://www.fileforums.com/showthread.php?t=70333

And Aftershock is on the list. Dawn of War is not.

 

And, here's a StarForce boycott site:

https://www.glop.org/starforce/

 

Anyway, your information is wrong, Pete. DoW is not a part of the 'Evil Empire.' But, Aftershock is.

 

I will admit, though, that some of those reasons for banning StarForce or rumors for avoiding StarForce might be due solely to sour grapes. But, like someone told me, you need to google StarForce and read up on it for yourself to decide whether it merits boycotting or not.

 

As far as I know, the other copy protection schemes are not being boycotted, because they haven't wiped out anybody's machines -- only StarForce has done unreimbursed uncompensated damage to the machines of ordinary users. There's no reason to boycott the other copy protection schemes, and any one of them can be used. The only copy protection scheme that has merited boycotting is StarForce.

 

My hope is for a US Release or a Special Edition Release of Aftershock without the StarForce. They can use anything else, and I will be fine with it. But, I think it's important to boycott StarForce, from what I have seen and read.

 

And, it is a pure rumor that StarForce only runs when you run the game. StarForce loads drivers, and those drivers run every time you boot the system, whether you run the game or not -- that just might be the main reason why everyone hates it so much. Pete is right, many of the other copy protection schemes only run if you run the game and they don't stay resident in memory, but StarForce is NOT one of them. There Pete is wrong.

 

To say that StarForce is the same as other copy protection schemes is a rumor and is incorrect.

[Lurker]

Nope, it's installed as a non-plug and play system driver that's loaded everytime Windows boots. Goto your Device Manager, click View, and Show Hidden Devices. Then scroll down the list until you find the "Non-Plug and Play Driver" section and you'll find up to 3 Starforce devices in there. An Environment Driver, A Helper Driver and a Syncronization Driver.

 

Kernel, are they identified as StarForce when you find the 3 devices. What's the wording on them, or are then hidden and disguised as your descriptions seem to indicate.

 

I can't see them on my system, but then I didn't expect to, because none of my games are on the list of boycotted StarForce games. The only game on that list that even tempts me is Aftershock.

 

I never downloaded the Aftershock Demo, because of all the warnings that started coming.

[Lurker]

Oh BTW, Pete, here's some more of the best information about the StarForce that I have come across. Spend a little time reading it, and then you'll have a better feeling what the bruhaha is all about. But, I won't guarantee whether you will agree with it all or not.

 

https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?showtopic=865

 

https://forum.ufo-aftermath.com/index.php?showtopic=914

 

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. "X Files"

 

Of course, it's getting at the truth that's hard, because there are indeed a bunch of customer rumors and StarForce promotion or advertising worked into the mix.

 

No modesty here, I participated in both threads, though I wasn't necessarily the highlight of either.

[csebal]

I don't buy that.

Those 2,000-20,000 would buy it anyway, then there will be another 2,000 like me who randomly are given a copy of UFO:AM and go this is quite fun, then see it and buy it because I played a ripped version.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And there you are wrong. Just take my example. Where i live, software arrives usually 2 weeks to 2 months later than usual. (Stupid localization rules, that they cannot sell stuff not coming with a manual in our native language - bah)

 

This means i can get the stuff much earlier from the net. Now in this case, i can't because of starforce that can't be cracked - not even today, and even the 'cracked' versions of it require you to take your PC apart, pull drives out, etc which no sane person would do.

 

So i was quite disappointed, as it meant i'll have to wait several weeks to get my hands on UFO:AS. Well.. i was lucky, as for some miraculous reason, the stores had it on the official release date. I just went, and bought two copies - one for me, one for a collegue.

 

Do you think i bother buying games i already have through alternative channels? Well.. think again. Copy protections do their job well. They ensure, that those would would otherwise download the game actually go and buy it instead. Why? Because you can wait months, but the starforce release will not be cracked. At most you get some clone which you can either get to work, or not - most people can't.

 

Am i proud that i use pirated software? Nope. But i live in the damn 21 century, and will not wait for months to get my hands on something i can easily download in just about 10 minutes. Once gaming companies realize the potential of internet, i bet 50% of the piracy will be gone. OFC they got a tool to force me to WAIT for their software to arrive, and that is called starforce.

 

Bash it as much you want, but watchtower is right. Only people with underspecced or conflicting hardware, or improperly maintained software get problems. These people have problems with other software as well, you just do not hear about them, because it is not UFO:AS related. Oh yes, and i would be curious, how many of the people actually complaining about starforce would buy the game if it werent using starforce.

 

Just my two cents.

[Kernel]

Kernel, are they identified as StarForce when you find the 3 devices.  What's the wording on them, or are then hidden and disguised as your descriptions seem to indicate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The new version of Starforce is identified as Starforce, Yes. But I beleve the original version of the drivers were simply labeled as "Copy Protection Driver" or something.

[Kernel]

Toms Hardware Guide recently posted an article about copy protection in General and on Starforce.

https://www.tgdaily.com/2005/10/01/the_war_...ates/index.html

 

The "reply" from Starforce is rather interesting and funny.

https://www.star-force.com/protection/prote...ml?c=256&id=658

 

I find the EULA part interesting. Basicly it says "Our copy protection drivers don't cause any problems, but if they do, you can't blame us for it."

No I'm no legal expert, but as far as I know, such EULA are illegal in the UK, and maybe Europe.

 

Edit: I just found this site that summerises UK Law and EULAs: https://www.kevinboone.com/eula.html

[Nutguy]

Only people with underspecced or conflicting hardware, or improperly maintained software get problems.

 

Yeah, right... and when the improperly maintened software or conflicting hardware comes from Starforce as the above links seem to indicate then what? That's the users problem too I guess.

 

Mine is actually a case where (this particular) copy protection has had the opposite effect. It didn't prohibit any illegal use of the game, it actually prevented a possible buyer from acquiring it legally. I was two steps from buying the game but hesitated and didn't go through it cause of the bugs and the chance it might not be displayed properly on TFT screens. Starforce is strike 3 for ALTAR. Too bad...

 

I really didn't have any beef with Starforce until I read the above links. I've actually installed legal copies of such games (as well as the Aftershock demo) on my system but after what I've read I'm going to find that removal tool and get Starforce out of my PC.

[csebal]

Yeah, right... and when the improperly maintened software or conflicting hardware comes from Starforce as the above links seem to indicate then what? That's the users problem too I guess.

 

Mine is actually a case where (this particular) copy protection has had the opposite effect. It didn't prohibit any illegal use of the game, it actually prevented a possible buyer from acquiring it legally. I was two steps from buying the game but hesitated and didn't go through it cause of the bugs and the chance it might not be displayed properly on TFT screens. Starforce is strike 3 for ALTAR. Too bad...

 

I really didn't have any beef with Starforce until I read the above links. I've actually installed legal copies of such games (as well as the Aftershock demo) on my system but after what I've read I'm going to find that removal tool and get Starforce out of my PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you didnt buy the game? Now what? Your loss, sorry. It is a great game, and with some bugfixes, it'll even be better. Starforce caused no problems for me, just as it causes no problems for the majority of users you never hear about. What you hear is the desperate cry of the few unlucky, who get conflicts, and the few desperate 'leechers' who are unable to download it from the net because of the protection.

 

If it would have been out sooner through piracy than through retail channels, i would have downloaded it. Instead of that, i bought two copies. Now thats two bought versus the one you didnt. Can you see a pattern there?

 

People should finally get a hang of this: starforce and the like are born becuase some people use completely illegal means to STEAL from the developers. Would you like your work to be stolen for example? I doubt it, so im sure you would take steps to ensure it is protected against theft. Let's all be honest. Starforce does an excellent job in that. I havent seen a single recently released starforce protected game, that was cracked 'properly'.

 

If someone thinks that they've sold less copies with starforce protection than they would have done without it.. well go figure. I'm sure publishers have exact figures on sales, and if starforce wouldnt have better statistics than regular or unprotected games, then they would simply not go for it.

[Pete]

Really, you've got more chance of the game being incompatible with your hardware than having a problem with StarForce.

 

Try the demo. If you don't like it, uninstall it and it'lluninstall StarForce. Where's the problem?

[Nutguy]

Loss? Maybe, or maybe I'll spend my money on something equally good that won't bugger my PC or maybe even be a complete waste of money (TFT screen problem). Instead seems like I'll wait a bit and buy Civ 4.

 

You bought two copies... Good for you and good for ALTAR. Now maybe you can buy a few hundred more for all those people who seem to be boycoting Starforce and then ALTAR will be even more happy. In the meantime I'm not thrilled about the possibility, however remote, of having my PC deep fried.

 

On the copy protection discussion. I'm with you on legallity and rights and stolen work, just mine is a different take from yours. I buy my games legally and of course I wouldn't be happy if someone stole my work. But I wouldn't protect it in a way that could damage or cause unwanted problems on the property of legal buyers.

 

Edit: @ Pete. No problem here. I did try the demo, liked it as far as I saw, but from what I've read I'd rather buy something else. In the meantime I've already uninstalled Starforce.

[Lurker]

Really, you've got more chance of the game being incompatible with your hardware than having a problem with StarForce.

 

Try the demo. If you don't like it, uninstall it and it'lluninstall StarForce. Where's the problem?

 

--

 

Two problems that I know of. If StarForce wipes out your hard drive, then you can't uninstall. Others have reported that their DVD drive disappeared after installing StarForce and they couldn't get it back after uninstalling StarForce. That's a problem. They had to reformat their hard drive to get their DVD drive to work again.

 

Which leads to the second problem, there is a rumor or a belief that not all of StarForce goes away after running the StarForce uninstall. There have been people who have uninstalled Aftershock, and who then reinstall, and the StarForce doesn't ask for the CD key the during the second install, which leads many people to believe that the StarForce didn't completely go away during the uninstall process.

 

Thus, people come to the conclusion, whether rightly or wrongly, that StarForce prevents itself from being completely uninstalled and that StarForce is therefore a 'gift that keeps on giving.'

 

--

 

I have been thinking about buying another hard drive, buying a copy of System Commander so that I can dual boot XP, and buying a copy of Ghost so that I can copy my hard drive to the new drive, and then setting it up so that I boot to either one drive or the other. On one drive I put StarForce and Aftershock, and on the other drive, the newer higher capacity drive, I leave it pure. Then see what happens. Will the StarForce jump drives, if System Commander makes it so that one drive can't see the other? I doubt it.

 

But . . . there have been numerous reports that the people who are currently having problems with StarForce, the latest versions of StarForce, are the people who have more than one drive in their system, more than one hard drive or more than one DVD or CDROM drive. So, if I put in a second drive and try to isolate StarForce, it sounds like I might actually be creating one of the situations in which StarForce messes everything up.

 

Like I said, or tried to say, the problems are subtle and hard to prove and hard to convince yourself that you might indeed be witnessing real problems. Everybody gets different results. And, I certainly don't want to chastize anyone who comes up with the opposite conclusion, because I can see how they might indeed come up with different results. There are plenty of reports from people who are having absolutely no problem with StarForce.

 

And, then there are those who are actively boycotting StarForce. Is their boycott making a difference or getting anyone's attention? So many questions, and not enough answers. A boycott of StarForce is a solution or an answer, but will it work? As far as I know, it will only work if you refuse to install StarForce on your system, to begin with.

 

--

 

EDIT: And, thank you Pete for letting us vent or 'rant' as the title says. I always feel that it is good to be informed.