Hobbes Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 *starts ordering everyone to parade formation* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 C:\ drive on my computer crashed - which is where I had saved the X-COM FM. Managed to save that - off-site backups are nice - but I lost MS Office, which I have to reinstall to do any editing. Frick. I'll be back... That is all. Carry on, soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 *tosses a half-hearted salute in reply, scowls at the commander when he's not looking and goes back to the hangar to wash-off the Sectoid remains from the floor of the Skyranger* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Strike Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hey, can I help? I've got a few ideas, and willing to share them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 Go right ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I'm probably repeating information here, but nevermind, I just felt like trying my hand at a bit of literary goodness after getting a few ideas from the thread on civilians. It doesn't fit into the manual's writing style, so I'm just tossing it in as raw material. - NKF --- Terror sites: An excerpt from a soldier's journal who shall remain nameless: '-- it's very strange. The aliens don't appear to want to kill the poor citizens they're terrorising. At least not at first. They won't hesitate in the least and will immediately open fire on the civilians the very moment our dropship lands in the area and lowers its access ramp . If we ignore the terror alert for a few hours, they'll kill the townsfolk anyway. They appear to know when one of our ships is en route to the site, and will patiently wait for us to arrive. I wonder if we have any moles in the organisation, or if the aliens just have awfully powerful scanners? They just know. I guess that's all there is to say about it. Sgt. Mikhail Okabe says it all boils down to psychological warfare. They want to break our morale by making us watch helplessly as they slaughter the people we're sworn to protect. If we arrived and all the civilians were dead, we'd probably not think twice about it, or at least not as much if we were to watch them being murdered before our very eyes, or having to listen to their tormented screams. The aliens also seem to do something to the civilians before we arrive. At every terror site I've been to, the locals always appeared to be in a rather addle minded state, and walked about as if they're in a dream. They'll merrily walk through a hail of flying lead just to let the aliens get a better shot at them, and yet they won't seek shelter in nearby buildings or the relative safety of our dropship. The third time they attacked Novosibirsk, I remember trying to protect an old woman from one of those furry bipedal aliens that was chasing after her. Instead of getting behind me for protection, she stared at me with a vacant smile, turned around and walked towards the alien and... That happened only a week ago, but every time I try to rest, my sleep is plagued with the same nightmare. If this keeps up, the base commander's going to need to find a new firearms instructor, and I'm going to be sporting a new jacket with very long sleeves. But I think that's not the worst of it. If we knock out any civilians during the battle with our shock sticks, they just change. I don't really know how to describe it, except that they become someone.. no something else. . I've a feeling these people, who are in a very weakened mental state, are holding onto their minds for their dear lives. Any interference on our part just causes them to lose concentration and are thus defenceless against whatever it is that enters their heads and practically kicks them out so that it can then make itself at home. These posessed civilians are harmless when awake, but we are still required to deal with them somehow. No matter how we decide to do that, our Damage Control specialists jump in and 'vanish' any of the affected persons. It's a very hush-hush matter. Even the inspection team from the UN who come around to assess the damage aren't made aware of the posessed civilians, so we are not credited or discredited for this little mistake of ours. After the aliens have been dealt with, the rest of the civilians seem to recover after a few hours, and have no recollection of what had just happened to them. This is rather convenient and saves having to lug all the brainwashing equipment out there. But one does have to wonder how Damage Control is going to explain the big crater where the old gas station should be, or what's up with that inside-out vege-mart. --" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I never really took part in this, but I'd hate to see all this information go to waste. A lot of people spent a lot of time writing this stuff down. Is someone ever going to make this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Is someone ever going to make this?Good question. Spaceman42: do you have a compilation of all this stuff? I'd like to take a look at it to see how far this has progressed. NKF: I'm sure I've read before an analysis from you comparing all types of advanced hand weapons (like you just did comparing the laser rifle/heavy plasma on another thread). If I'm right could you post it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 It's in this thread, a few pages back. It's only for the earth weapons and I'm missing out on a few, I think. - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I've noticed the Earth weapons one but I could swear that someone made a similar one comparing all laser and plasma weapons. But I can't remember where I saw it on the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 I would, dammit, I would. But I don't have 'net access after around 4 PM, since I'm at the U of Laval. I'll see if I can get anything else done. And the FM thus far is at https://nfact.mspencer.net/XComFM.doc , in Word 2000 format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 I'm new to the forums and have no clout, but I recommend that an admin "sticky" this topic. It is the ONLY comprehensive tactical discussion topic in the UFO forum. I suggest that the manual follow a United Nations approach, rather than strictly NATO. It would be interesting to add *relevant* tactics from Myanmar's Gherkas, USSR special ops, Sun Tzu's The Art of War, or even the Hindu epic Baghavad Gita. Warfare tactics have changed surprisingly little over the past 30,000 years or so. Also, as others have mentioned, XCOM tactics can approach the US definition of terrorism (i.e. using last-ditch efforts against a superior foe). Priming a demolition pack of High Explosives before entering a UFO is not a NATO tactic, but when you're down to 2 soldiers and a small 1-room UFO... The generic use of each XCOM item should be covered. But creative uses are what separate the average player from the ve...er...elite. Incendiary ammo can seal off open areas against non-flying opponents better than a proximity grenade, but it won't burn down a hedge. A heavy cannon high explosive round can break through a solid barn wall, but an auto cannon cannot. You can determine the rank of a stunned alien by standing on it. If you do not wish to keep the alien, you can wake it up with medi-kit stimulants. The unarmed alien is easily dispatched by rookies with pistols who need target practice. Grenades...ah, grenades.... We should not forget air-to-air combat. The little-used cannon causes far more average damage (over time) than Stingrays or Avalanches, is cheaper to reload, and UFOs escape an aggressive attack less often. A single interceptor with dual cannons can take out a medium UFO by itself 80% of the time. Avalanche and Stingrays cost more, and usually require two interceptors because the carrying capacity is low. You have to accept, of course, that the cannon-using interceptor will be partially damaged every time, even against small UFOs. And that 20% against medium UFOs is when the interceptor is destroyed. The monthly maintenance equals the replacement cost (minus the weapons), so a destroyed interceptor is acceptable losses. The softies can pretend the pilot ejected in time. I'm getting ahead of myself. The point of this post was to bump the topic and request its longevity. I would like to see an additional permanent "modding" topic, regularly cleaned and maintained by staff. But that may be too much to ask--purists may be put off by the idea. As for XCOM-specific material, an old website is still hanging by the threads in cyberspace (though the links are dead and the administrator has cut the project). This link contains "real world" descriptions of various XCOM weaponry: XCOM First Generation Weaponry Here is the main site: COMBASE: NOVA Be forewarned: It's a bear to find real information on the site, but if you have copious free time it's an interesting, if not particularly productive, visit. [Edit: Spelling] --Zeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 While I agree with the idea of the inclusion of those tactics, I'm afraid I have no real access to the material. If someone could find the stuff and pass it on, I could probably work it in. And seeing as how this is field tactics, most likely the air-to-air should *not* be included. Maybe in an "Overall X-COM Strategery" eyes-only procedures manual-type document. Or something. Friiick, I'd better get working on this analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 That site is interesting Zeno... although it is odd in some aspects. I tried to find the weapons he was talking about on the internet, and granted I didn't do a heavy search, some of them simply don't exist. The pistol for example, the "Colt Python II" isn't a gun at all. My searches revealed it was actually a knife. The GE Minigun? Can't find it anywhere. The X-COM Rifle, "Colt/Beretta M-26A "Bearcat" Assault Rifle" doesn't exist, rather, it is a combination of weapons. The closest match I found was a taser. And the "M-210 "Bowser" man-portable recoiless cannon"... no. I did manage to find the Predator Medium Anti-tank Missile Launcher:https://www.army-technology.com/projects/predator_kestrel/images/Predatorkestrel_3.jpg While the site is a good idea, having actual weapons on there would have been a nice addition. If anyone can prove me wrong on any of these points PM me, I'd like to see them. I think for the field manual, we should have pictures of things, like the weapons. I know we have some good artists out there, I've seen the pictures on the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Fox, I used "real world" in quotes for a reason. As in, the fictional world of the XCOM universe. I like that the site attempt(ed) to give more information than the simple "highly accurate sniper rifle" stated in the UFOped. I didn't do my homework though. I had no idea a Colt Python II was actually a knife! Regardless, that old site attempted to give tactical/strategic information without resorting to traditional game lingo about time units and whatnot. Revisions are (often) easier than writing new material. Since copying creates problems anyway, I figured that site could help someone generate their own descriptions. As for having actual, not-in-quotes Real World descriptions...good luck. None of the game weapons duplicate the actual functionality of a modern weapon. There is a mod somewhere that replaces the game weapons with real world equivalents, with arguable success. I think, in this endeavor, you need imagination. You can imagine your soldiers are using M-16s, UZIs, AK-47s, or anything else. The game calls them all "Rifle" for $3000, for simplicity. On the other hand, you can imagine there is some advanced weapon model that outperforms all other modern equivalents, and it is implemented in the game because it's the best you can buy. It's not just any rifle, it's "the" Rifle, and it costs $3000. However you look at it, if you write a field manual with weapon descriptions, you need to write more than "Rifle, best used with auto shot because of comparatively low TU cost and the statistical increased chance of hitting with at least one bullet." That description, while potentially adequate, doesn't quite catch the flavour Spaceman is going for. One other comment: Terran weaponry (pre-laser) is designed to kill humans. Humans without armour, and mobile equipment (including, presumably, HWPs) with armour. The XCOM Field Manual, from the very start, is seeking to apply anti-human weaponry against aliens. Rocket launchers and demolitions become, potentially, anti-personnel (aliennel?) weapons. Anyway, the descriptions should reflect that pistols and rifles aren't "weak". They work just fine, exactly as advertised, if used on unarmoured rookies. It's getting them to work on Mutons that's difficult. Fox, I like that pic. Notice how the shooter suffers no recoil whatsoever. Yes, that most definitely must be the XCOM rocket launcher! --Zeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Guess I didn't understand what you meant by "real world" then. I agree with everything you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 Extrapolation, maybe? Heh. If someone could convert screenshots of the rifles, etc. in X-COM into lineart, that would work pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman42 Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 So, yeah. If anyone feels motivated to write up a section on "clean-up" tactics, or to dispute with / revise some of the squad tactics, then feel free. I'll try to work on the manual a little this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 There are a lot of suggestions here already. Someone mentioned writing something about "grenade relay" tactics (describing how all XCOM grenades can be safely picked up, and once picked up they will not detonate). There are also a few descriptions of how proximity grenades work. I know the Equipment section(s) are in the Appendix, so they might not be top priority. But I recommend a full sub-section on grenade tactics. For inexperienced users, grenades of all varieties are a dangerous and frustrating weapon. All the other weapons are fairly inuitive--point, pull trigger. 5001.XField Explosives and Grenades 5001.X.1Throwable Proximity Mines For the flavour text, proximity mines and motion scanners both detect movement. It would make sense for these technologies to be closely related. No one has written anything about the medi-kit. In the game, this is considered "early technology" (you can research it on Day 1). Yet it seems to be nearly Star Trek-ish science fiction equipment. Does anyone have EMT or other field medical knowledge? Maybe you can give some plausible explanation for the sudden ability to cure a fatal wound in the time it takes to walk 2.5 meteres. I'm not sure about the "heal" feature, but you can revive a stunned alien using the medi-kit. This is useful when you have a nearly-full containment facility and have accidently stunned the wrong alien. If you don't have a mind probe, you can stun an alien, then check it's rank by picking it up in the inventory screen. If it's the wrong alien, you can wake it up with the medi-kit and use it for target practice (as it will be unarmed). I don't have the time or desire to write this in creative prose, but if I get inspired I'll make an attempt. ------ This project is too big for one person, Spaceman. Your current field manual is well written and very well organized. But you've seen the US military field manuals--they aren't thin. It's a joke that the palm-sized US Army Ranger field manual is thick enough to stop a bullet. If you ask for a core group of volunteers, I'm sure several people here will jump at the chance. Ask each volunteer to give three or more topics they feel competent writing about. Then, you assign the topics and wait for submissions. Your job, then, would be to coordinate the volunteers and collect their input. Then, you'd have to edit their work to give the document consistent formatting and writing style (easier said than done). It would be useful if you also provided a "writing guide" and/or "style guide". If your school work is excessive (and it sounds like it is) you could assign one of the volunteers as assistant coordinator. The assistant could do all of the leg work and preliminary formatting/editing work. You'd still have control, veto power, and final stamp-of-approval on the end result, but you could reduce your time expenditure by 50% or more. Finally, the end document will never be complete. Someone will always have a second opinion or argument. Let the forum tear it to shreds while you add new material. Except for major inaccuracies, only go back and edit/expand the old material when everything is complete. It's better to have a complete DRAFT document than an incomplete some-sections-final-other-sections-version-2-or-3-or-up-to-18-with-a-few-draft-sections-and-lots-of-missing-sections document. --Zeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyfishGreen Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 If all the healing function does is stop fatal wounds from draining health, it can probably be imagined as something that just plugs the hole and stops blood coming out - say a coagulant followed by Dermabond . Perhaps this leads to hideous scarring, but that's one way to tell the squaddies from the recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Demi-Godly One Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 The healing function does do more than just stopping a critical wound from draining your health, it also gives you a couple of health points back. (This can very rarely get your units health above the normal maximum, or at least, I think it can) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NKF Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 If you have plenty of critical wounds but little loss in health, you can easily bring it back to 100%. It won't go over your hitpoint maximum, but if it did, you'd get a small boost to your firing accuracy. --- Did you know medikits ignore walls? No, seriously, they do, as long as you can stand right up next to the wall on both sides (for the map editors: these are the walls that sit on two edges of a tile -- not the walls that occupy the entire tile). Right, so now you can heal right through solid walls. How is this going to be used to your tactical advantage? Well you can heal through walls. Note that you can also use medikits on aliens, and remember that bringing up the medikit interface costs nothing, therefore, you can use it to check if there's an alien standing right behind a door or wall at practically no cost (except walking and turning), which effectively turns the medikit into a short-range (1 tile) scanner. If the medikit interface is brought up, then you are facing an alien. Hurrah! It's not a terribly good scanner as there aren't very many situations where an alien will be right up next to a wall, but hey, if you must storm the UFO but don't have a motion scanner, it's the next best thing! At least it'll prevent the often embarassing encounter where the door slides only for your soldier to get a shot at point blank range. What exactly does the medikit do to heal a soldier? I mean, what's in it and how is it transferred to the patient? Nanites? It's a bit too early for nano-technology. We learn new things every day... Hmm, I wonder what other item has a hidden use? I mean, the smoke grenade is an established last-ditch stun weapon, so perhaps the electro flare has a secondary use or unique form of application too. (Okay, so it's just wishful thinking) - NKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeno Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 NKF--I've thought about your excerpts from the soldier's journal from...uh, a couple weeks ago. Something kept bothering me, but I couldn't decide what. Last night I thought about it again (after fighting another terror site) and I realized what it was. Although I like the description in your post, I have a different opinion on why the aliens wait until you arrive before they start killing. When you arrive at a terror site, you look around at a suburban zone that's about the size of a city block. Inside, there are usually around 10 to 15 civilians (sometimes much less, sometimes a few more). The way I see it, these civilians are the only survivors left! They've managed to hide until XCOM arrives, but the aliens are already sniffing them out. The game doesn't show the dead bodies, but I imagine there are dozens (hundreds?) of casualties already. This goes along with the Alien War history (which implies millions of deaths during the first war). Why aren't you penalized for these dead people? Because there is some level of logic in the scoring. XCOM is expected to come to the alien site (if you don't come, massive negative score results.) XCOM is expected to rescue any civilians still alive at the site. This explains several "weird" game events. First, it explains why there are only 10-15 civilians in the area. Second, it explains why the civilians are so frustratingly stupid (watching lots of people die and being hunted by aliens has made them rather shell-shocked). Third, it explains why the aliens have waited for XCOM to arrive (they didn't wait, they just haven't finished). Fourth, it explains why the terror site ends (the aliens kill everyone). Fifth, it explains why the terror site doesn't end if you have a ship in transit to the site (the civilians are told help is on the way, so they have more will to try and stay alive). I still like your explanation, but I thought I'd offer a second opinion. NKF, Demi-Godly One, JellyfishGreen--Apparently, we have a medi-kit that operates on short-range wave technology, penetrating any known and most alien materials (all walls except the "object" outer UFO walls). It sounds like the medi-kit operates as a catalyst for something already inside the patient. I agree that nano-technology is too advanced. Maybe the medi-kit causes an extremely rapid accumulation of white blood cells and other internal healing processes? Maybe it increases adrenalin as a natural stimulant, and deadens nerve responses as a pain killer? It would explain how the medi-kit is a non-invasive field surgery technique that is incredibly fast. Perhaps all soldiers are injected with some sort of biological agent, which responds to the wave frequencies output by the medi-kit? And the aliens just happen to also be affected? I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Regardless, it's not a cure-everything device. The soldier will still be wounded and end up at the hospital for days or weeks if he survives the mission. Speaking of which, why do all soldiers recover and return to active duty? NKF, I thought everyone here knew about the secondary use for the electro flare. If you drop it (not throw) while standing on the orange square tile of a battleship, with exactly 8 soldiers all facing and surrounding the central soldier (they drop their flares in order from north, north west, west...all the way around to northeast), with 4 additional soldiers on each outer point of the box formation, facing inward toward the central soldier, who then drop their flares in the same north-west-south-east order, and you have no dead soldiers (so you brought and have a total of 13), then not only will you win the mission when you push "end turn", you will also be transported to the secret COW level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Veteran Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Are you guys using the dat-canister information that Skonar did a while back? It's in the fanfiction topic if anyone wants to go and see it. I think it should be in there somewhere. Great work though, keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluissi Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 they signed a contract saying that if they sign the contract, then they must fight to the death for the commander, they must fight with whatever they have left, if they only have a head and and finger left, and somehow they are still connected and working together, they must still aim, shoot, fight, fire, and throw stuff at the enemy, and the contract also says, that if they ever die, 10 of their relatives must put themselves on the recruitment list for x-com...see, explains alot, such as where all of the people come from, why people still fight with one health point left, and why so many people have the same last names... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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