Where are all the people??

[Stun Grenade]

@ Staff..

 

It's been really quiet lately and I was wondering if you guys might have ideas on how to get some more people back??

[Slaughter]

Yes, maybe. We'll send out a newsletter to all members of these boards soon. Hopefully that will get some back. Just waiting for a interview to get back before doing so.

[FullAuto]

We're concentrating on carpet bombing for now, with a later focus on web 'camps' for those who think they have escaped Pete's Reich.

[Stun Grenade]

hehehe nice one FullAuto... I'm now starting to think that its not the merge, people would've still gone to x-com.co.uk for example, and be directed here!

So it's kinda wierd...

[FullAuto]

Exactly. And the new look can't have put that many people off, surely. Still it's not like you have to pass a test in order to join (shame though) so we'll get new members.

[Strong Bob]

There were a few people I kept in touch via the PM systems on a bi-weekly basis here before the site change. (Lonestar being the longest running, last message being in December before the move) I lost contact with ALL of them once the site changed. I think it might've done as much harm as good. I, personally, like the new style and such... So I never left.

 

But I do so recall somebody coming by on the Off-Topic forum claiming they almost left for good because they couldn't find this place via x-com.co.uk (I think some browsers are incapable of using the "reroute" command, but I wouldn't know)

 

I'm thinking that the change in the site or style is part of the reason. The other is that the forum is now freaking HUGE. Some people may take a single look and say "woah" and leave, regardless of the logic that they only need to look at one forum section.

 

Also, the one thing that turns me off to everything except the Off TOpic and X-COM Sims sections, is the use of subcategories. Most administrators do not use these on grounds that they are not well liked. Although I wouldn't necessarily say they are as infamous as frames, I don't like them either. Once again, it's nothing based on logic, but rather a psychological thing that says: "It's too redundant to be worth it."

 

I liked x-com.co.uk better, and even then I prefer the format from about three years ago. I don't know if I would join these fora as a newbie, but the old format enticed me enough there. But that's only my own opinion. Others may have different reasons.

[Slaughter]

The reroute works on the latest versions of IE, Firefox and Opera. Though we'd like to, it's impossible to support all versions of all browsers.

 

As for people not being too fond of the larger boards and subcategories you may very well be right. I haven't heard any complaints before now, but that doesn't mean it isn't so. We'd like more feedback on the new site!

[Lurker]

Cons: There's too much stuff to get to and to read. In the past, I went only to the Aftermath site. Timewise for me, it was much easier to manage a single site, and much easier to get involved or to find what I was wanting.

 

Pros: With the whole enchilada combined together, I find myself looking at other stuff occasionally that I would never have seen. I got back into X-Com when Slaughter provided a version that worked on Win XP. I never thought that I would be playing X-Com on WinXP, and I would never have found that X-Com thread if all the forums weren't combined.

 

--

 

So, the weaknesses of the new setup are also its strengths, but I do (yet again) have to develop new and better ways to handle information overload. With all of these nice 'puters and the internet, information overload is fast becoming a serious social issue which will only get worse as each decade passes.

 

And sometimes, the only effective way to deal with information overload and the time crunches that it causes is to go way and not come back.

 

During the last decade, I can't even begin to list all of the things I liked on the internet (and with email) that I had to abandon, just so that I would have sufficient time to eat, sleep, and work. And, the previous decade before that was spent deciding what I would and would not watch on television, due to time constraints.

 

Information overload.

[NKF]

Just to take the Xcomufo forums as an example, that forum has far too many subforums. While I do spend a lot of time there (as much as I spend my time here), I mainly only spend time under a few branches, and neglect most of the others unless I see something that catches my eye. Otherwise, I find I'm missing out on a lot. Well, what mainly gets me is navigating back and forth between forums just to find a thread that I'd read earlier and not being able to find it again while my answer is still fresh in my mind. (Mind you, on the flip side of the coin, the same thing can happen even if everything were to be on one huge forum)

 

Sometimes over-organisation is necessary (especially if there's heavy traffic, or there are many similar topics of discussion that drown out the others) - the real trick is to strike a good balance that also avoids all the redundancies.

 

Me, I'm just putting up with it. The minor changes here and there can drive you mad though. Move one forum above another and watch NKF go mad. Fun!

 

- NKF

 

P. S: Every time I see the title of this thread, I keep thinking of that song that goes "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing...."

[Bomb Bloke]

It's, um, much the same to me. I've seen a lot of users come and go, but the usual mob seem to still be here. Most of the guys who aren't posting now weren't posting just before the merge, either.

 

Off Topic is a little more busy, if only because there's only one of them.

 

Of course, I can only speak for the X-Com sections. But I figure most of you lot don't go outside of them either.

 

Then there are the users who are on very rarely - JFG, LoneStar, even Tammy these days, and a couple others. Then there's Carlos, Doc France, Warlord, who only ever jump in for five minutes per year, if that.

[Stun Grenade]

Lol i think Tammy aint around here because she might not be the queen anymore!!

 

I personally like sub-categories... but my mates on my own forum with 2 sub-cat's hate em!!!

 

I was just thinking... i know it wouldn't work but for people who are not interested in the other sections (I'm Off Topic / X-COM) can not view the other sections. You will probably need to make new user groups... as for newbs.. if they typed in a search engine "X-COM" then they would only see the X-COM and Off-Topic areas...

 

I know it wouldn't work but hey, its my suggestion that I think would make the place better... which the idea will probably not work!!

[Strong Bob]

Then there are the users who are on very rarely - JFG, LoneStar, even Tammy these days, and a couple others.

 

Actually. Lonestar used to be a very frequent regular before the move. I recieved PMs from him on a bi-weekly (Sometimes more often) basis. Once we moved, they stopped. Which is why I am convinced that the move to Strategycore has likely killed it's share of forum goers along with the size and design scaring off newcomers.

 

I don't know. Frankly I think the site was better off separated into three distinct domains.

[Zombie]

I can see all your points about this site becomming larger. It is. And with the merge not only came new members, but also other game discussions. But for those of you who get overwhelmed with the forums due to sheer size, there is something you can do:

 

See those little minus signs (-) in a square to the far right of each forum category? You ever try clicking on them? That minus sign is like the "minimize" button on your computer - it hides the forums and just leaves the category visible. If you clicked the minus sign, it changes to a plus sign (+) in a square. Click on the plus sign to maximize those forums.

 

Don't visit the Silent Storm areas much? Minus it out. Don't like to read the news to talk off-topic (heaven forbid)? Minus out the StrategyCore part too. Heck, you can minus out the whole board if you want, which would just leave the categories visible. It's simple to do, and it may be easier for some of you to focus on the areas you want to visit. Just a thought.

 

----------

 

Now for the subforum discussion and how confusing it could be.

Anyone ever had to write a long essay? I think that is standard practice these days. One of the ideas taught in schools is before you start to write, you make an outline. Outlines are exactly what subforums are there for: to organize information so that it makes sense.

 

How many of you ever took a computer programming course? One of the first ideas taught (at least in my classes) was the idea of "top-down design" You start out with the basics of how the game is supposed to work (Level 0). Then you expand on those areas (Level 1-3), getting more specific as you go along to each of those (higher) levels. In this fashion, you have practically wrote the program without any code. Here again, this can be applied to subforums.

 

I don't know all of your backgrounds, but everyone here should be familiar with one of those ideas I mentioned.

 

I don't know about you, but I am a very organized person. In order to be organized and efficient, I need to have some structure. Some rules, if you may, to decide on what to do. Once I am comfortable with those rules, I can do things without thinking (like navigating to a subforum). It becomes second-nature.

 

Actually, navigating to a subforum is really easy on this website. For instance, say you want to visit the Enemy Unknown subforum of the X-COM Games. The subforums for each X-COM game is listed directly underneath the X-COM games forum, so all you have to do is click on the Enemy Unknown subheading. How simple is that?

 

Other X-COM websites (like xcomufo.com) lack this direct access feature. Things are initially a little bit harder to find because of "nested" subforums. There is nothing wrong with this format - it is just a different approach at organizing information efficiently. This type of forum mimics the "top-down design" architecture I have grown to understand.

 

Well, that's my rant for today. Personally, I love this site and it's members, and will continue to visit here. You guys did a seamless job of incorporating two different websites together in a very short amount of time. I can only imagine the work involved in that move. Kudos for a job well done!

 

- Zombie

[FullAuto]

Zombie loves our members!

No, wait...

[Strong Bob]

As easy as it is for us old-timers to do all that Zombie, it's obvious that newcomers will not go that far. I wouldn't join a forum if I had to do all that to minimize my playing field. The redundancy makes it not worth even joining. I remain because there is value in staying here. I know people here, and the conversations that occur make this place enticing to visit. Sadly, this is the only real reason I've stayed. If I were new, I don't know if I would join these fora. I kinda like the change, but I am not seeing a lot of newbie-friendly interface.

[Pete]

Whoah, so many posts!

 

How is it getting quieter with around 70-100 posts a day (that's in a 24 hour period)? I know x-com.co.uk was about that busy, and ufoaftermath.co.uk was quite busy, but I think most of that action was definitely in the Off Topic forum. Now there's only one of them, the duplicate topics like word association and love nests that used to get most posts are one and the same topic

 

Asw for the many forums, there is a small minus (-) symbol that you can click on in the main forum view if you're fed up of seeing the Silent Storm and Aftermath forums. I think it's cookie based so it should remember your preferences. It's waaaay over on the right of the category logo, but can cut down on the confusion of screens and screens of forums which will only increase the more new games we cover (sorry chaps, this will happen eventually and was the main point in merging all the sites - we'll have to come up with something manageable when we get a few more on board).

 

NKF - Apologies for the reordering of the Off Topic forum It just made more sense to stop forcing people to scroll the page down to visit what is the most popular forum. I can safely say that those forums at the top will not now move for at least a year and if they do, feel free to launch a custard pie my way or something (mmmm, pie!).

 

A large part of the problem for most of the old regulars would have been the extensive downtime we experienced when the server was last attacked. Fortunately with this new system that's not a problem, but ithe sites were offline for quite some time and there had been a string of downtime across the previous year. Now, with more stable software and a MUCH more reliable server with a hosting company that's been around for 6 years (and ain't disappearing anywhere in a hurry like one of the rip-off merchants I previously hosted with) I'm hoping that we will have very little downtime at all.

 

As has been mentioned, we're just waiting on an interview before we really re-launch the site in it's new form. Once the interview is ready, we'll be putting together a newsletter to send to all previous members, with all the latest X-COM and Aftermath news (more mods and addons etc, but UFO being free at Gamespy will interest quite a few) and we'll get a mention over at some of the larger gaming news sites after the interview's sorted. That ALWAYS brings people to the site. They may post, they may not, but at least we'll have tried.

 

As for the forums... they've not really changed that much. I had to put the X-COM game forums into a subforum though as there's so bloody many of them It would be nice if there were a feature where if you clicked on the X-COM Games forum they'd pop out underneath and I think that'd work better and appeal more to users, but there isn't that feature sadly (though I did just suggest it over at the developer's site ).

 

I'm hoping that our increased content (when we add it all in) coupled with regular updates in the news forums and via newsletters will keep people interested and bring new people - a whole slew of whom have signed up and not posted (which they're quite free to do) as well as people ho've just passed by the odd time before (and I know thre's some of those around too) - to the site and into the community to post.

 

We will also start running contests again as soon as possible. That was always a little bit of a crowd-puller too and got people talking at least

 

To be honest, I'm not bothered if we get down to twenty regulars visiting the boards and no more - it will still have been worthwhile. I'm just chuffed that something I started over five years ago is still interesting people today, and the figures for new posts and new members are always increasing steadily, even if the majority of members just lurk and don't post, at least they're watching

[Stun Grenade]

@ Zombie, congrats mate, nice views there. The minus sign can really help. But if its the board that people don't like, maybe change to phpBB or something..?

 

But seriously, if you dont understand 'tree structures' then you will never understand the format of how IPB does the subforums, etc..

 

Personally Pete (and other Admin) you have done a great job! As long we have our comitted members here, the forums will live long!

[Thorondor]

I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate both Pete and Olav on a truly great job.

 

Not only was the transition to the new site almost seamless, but everything looks clean, functional and professional. And then there's content, of course - I think Olav must have made a downpayment for an extra set of dopplegangers... :lol:

 

::

 

Keep up the excellent work, guys

[Slaughter]

Lots of good feedback here. Regarding the boards becoming too large, I think Zombie is right. All you have to do is to click the -, and they are no larger than they used to be.

 

As for regulars rarely visiting the board, the ones I've spoken to do so because of real life. The Veteran, BladeFireLight and Tammy for instance.

 

As for new users registering, we've had about the same number of new members in February-April as we had in October-December. I would love to join a site covering so many good games if I thought it was a nice site. And no one can deny the fact that this site looks better than most professional sites out there in my opinion.

 

Anyway, feedback is welcome, and we surely take people's concerns seriously, but let's not be hasty about "black painting" the situation

 

And thanks for the nice comments!

[Strong Bob]

All you have to do is to click the -, and they are no larger than they used to be.

 

It won't attract newcomers though, which was my point. But then again, I guess I'm the only one that sees it/feels that way regarding it. (You can ask that much of the old-timer posters. But new people may come in saying: "Why do I have to do that? Shouldn't they organize a little better?")

[Slaughter]

Are you sure? How many newcomers have you talked to that feel this way? I agree that boards getting too large are messy, but personally I don't think ours are yet. Maybe we should make this the next poll however. "Do you think the boards are too large and hard to navigate?"

[Zombie]

Heh, I've been here for a little bit over a year and still feel more like a newcomer than an "old-timer".

 

Would I become a new member today with the present site design? Absolutely! I love X-COM too much to deny myself that joy. Even if I couldn't post for some reason, I'd still visit just for the interesting discussions. And if anything, I'd be more inclined to use those minus signs when I was a newbie, than today. Maybe it's just that I'm more tolerant of some minor hassles (if you can call them that) now due to all the hard work being put forth by the site admins. Because of this fact, I never minimize any forums for fear I might miss something important.

 

You know, it's possible that some old members became disgruntled after the new policy of "no religious or political threads" was fully implimented after the merge. I'm not saying that this is the root cause for the lack of interest of old members, but it may play a small role, at least for some. Personally this is a good policy. Let me just quote myself from a while ago:

 

There aren't many people that can discuss [political or religious] issues in a civil manner. Things eventually will get out of hand. Off-topic is not an appropriate place to debate these subjects, off-forum is.

You may run a poll if you want, but my vote will always be positive. :lol:

 

- Zombie

[Jman4117]

We have "-" here? :o

 

Hot damn I don't have to read the extra stuff!

[Stun Grenade]

Regarding Zombies view,

 

"You know, it's possible that some old members became disgruntled after the new policy of "no religious or political threads" was fully implimented after the merge. I'm not saying that this is the root cause for the lack of interest of old members"

 

If people were to discuss politics and religion then this forum would be a very bad place to do so. As Zombie said, it ain't off topic, its off forum. So clearly its not the cause for inactive members.

[Strong Bob]

If people were to discuss politics and religion then this forum would be a very bad place to do so. As Zombie said, it ain't off topic, its off forum. So clearly its not the cause for inactive members.

 

Um... That means nothing. When the politics threads were locked, despite how a couple could've simply done with reprimands to individual posters, I noticed that activity died down slightly in Off-Topic on X-COM.co.uk. (This went for me too. If the archive still exists, you might notice I went away for a while, tried to cool off.) Personally, I was bummed out to hell when I read that. I enjoyed hearing the different political views on this site, this being one of only two "International" sites I've ever visited. I understand perfectly why the decision was made, since I noticed only I and two others were able to keep things civil. I'd like to see the politics and religious stuff come back, since it's as worthy of discussion as anything else. But it won't of course, for good reason. Unless someone were to raise their hand as the neutral party mediator and be able to play "referee" for such posts, I support the lack of political/religious discussion, while still supporting a way to bring them back peacably.

 

Are you sure? How many newcomers have you talked to that feel this way? I agree that boards getting too large are messy, but personally I don't think ours are yet. Maybe we should make this the next poll however. "Do you think the boards are too large and hard to navigate?"

 

One. And I can tell by my own tastes, that if this were my first impression of the board, I would not join. The one person I was trying to point to this place was my Uncle, he recently bought Apocalypse and was looking for a community to associate with. He settled for just asking me, and me linking to him forum topics. His exact words: "That place looks like a nightmare." He exaggerates, however. And I find this place to be far from a nightmare. (Believe it or not, despite my assinine criticism, I still like the place.) But so far, every post in this topic thus far has done nothing but praise this new design. So I guess you should ignore me on this matter.