Shotguns

[chemchok]

This game needs some shotguns in it.

 

I know they weren't standard issue in any army during WWII, but that doesn't mean they weren't used at all. Besides, a buckshot spread in this game would look so cool.

[Thork]

hmm shotguns were pretty rare in ww2..

so i think they arent essential..

but i got a nice bug you could use to give you some shotgun feeling.

use the oddball mod with a rifle (i think one of the mauser and an allied too you have to try) and it will shoot all bullets at once..

its kinda like a shotgun but far more powerfull cause it even shoots long distances - if one shot hits - all will..

[chemchok]

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out, but I'm really looking for something that has a spread pattern. Ever have someone use an smg on full burst at close range and miss with every single shot? It would be nice to have a shotgun for troops with a low burst skill in those situations.

 

Yeah, they were'nt essential, or even legal, as I understand it, because of the similarity between buckshot and hollow-point ammo, which was outlawed by the ?Geneva? convention.

 

At the same time, it's hard to argue that shurikens (nevermind panzerkleins) were essential either.

[Alpha_Male]

You want a feel of a shotgun?

ok,choose the Mas 36 rifle,mostlg because it has its own tipo os ammo and wont interefere with any others,chance it to take the Lil Joe arrows as ammo a clip of about 70 each.(or if youre good at it,edit the weapon damage on that ammo to make it do 4-5 per bullet)next in the weapon properties where it says "shots in one" you cna put in like say 10...

this is how i do it.what i get is a slightly balanced shotgun wich will not be overpowering outside very close ranges (i never killed anyone in one single firing to this date) but whose dispersion cloud is guaranteed to nick someone nine times out of 100. personally it became my favorite weapons

for the engeneer to have or the scout.usefull to blow down door or clean up rooms or even to give people with poor burst skills a usefull weapon.

all i wish is that i could somehow get an actual shotgun model into the game.

[chemchok]

Nice, I'll give it a try.

[cptcrunch]

Along a similar vein, does anyone know why shotguns are banned in conventional warfare?

Seems kinda moronic considering the assortment of deadly weapons armies are allowed to use .... it's like trying to lose weight by eating a super-sized McDick's meal with a biggie diet coke.

I can understand banning toxin gas, nuke artillery shells and bioweapons but SHOTGUNS ?!?!?!

[Shingen Takeda]

I believe I read somewhere that any weapon that causes an unusual amount of pain and agony is prohibited by the Geneva/Hague conventions. The idea that shotguns fired at long range are notorious for not killing the target but wounding it (often horribly) is a pretty safe bet as to why they are prohibited.

 

Along a similar vein I read some years back that the US army developed a man portable laser rifle. Small problem. Any enemy combatants not hit were blinded by the light. It was shelved for similar reasons as shotguns. Not that being blind wouldn't be better than being alive...

 

Not sure why but I have seen recent pictures of troops with boomsticks. I believe in the book "Black Hawk Down" near page 263 in the small picture section there is a Ranger with a shotgun slung off his shoulder. And that picture was taken in theatre near Mogadishu.

[Schuh]

I've never heard of a shotgun being illegal in war. The SPAS(sp?) 12 is an assault shotgun used by the military and police forces. The shotgun was also used in the Pacific theatre of WW2 and Vietnam. It is a great close range weapon. If you got hit by a shotgun at a 100 yards or more it would not be much different than getting some shrapnel in your butt from a grenade. If you get hit at close range you will mostly likely be too dead to care.

 

"a weapon that causes an unusual amount of pain and agony" How is a flamethrower not this?

[brandeburg]

Hi fellows.

About shotguns, they are in usual Us armed forces arsenals. ITHACA, REMINGTON,WINCHESTER are the more common shotguns delivered during the 2WW to Army or Marines troops. All of these weapons were issued mainly to shock troops and are descendant of the famous ancester winchester M1897 shotgun, which one will become the Trench gun 97 in 1917 in the hand of US army soldiers, with the add of a cooler with bayonet attachment. This when the germans protest against the use of shotguns type weapons, and GENEVA convention commission agreed with them!!!??? and they used schrapnel shell which explose 10 meters above the ground and spread leads and steel balls and shrapnels! People are insanes!

The german too used some shotgun with 2 or 3 barrels (1 or 2 20 or 16 or 12 gauges, with a smaller caliber barrel, typical german hunting shotgun) in official use.

I am working on the 1897 myself but waiting the H&S editor to fully do it .See weapons moding in S2/S3mod

I use the same system with the little joe but replace it with the real shotgun.

Thank to the others ways to do it, it is always interesting to share and compare methods.

[FullAuto]

The Hague convention sort-of prohibits shotguns. The wording is something like 'unnecessary wounding and/or suffering'. So no exploding or hollow point ammo (except when the USA feels like it), and no shotguns. They've been used since WWI anyway, in pretty much every theatre of war (Korea, Oman, Vietnam, Falklands, Northern Ireland, the Gulf etc and many more besides). They're in limited usage with most armed forces.

[Zager]

Even if shotguns weren't banned, they wouldn't be used by militaries. They're inefficient weapons. Short range, low ammo capacity, heavy ammunition and an assault rifle is just as efficient as killing.

[brandeburg]

But they are really efficient for urban fighting (watch in Irak)or into the jungle were they are more convenient for this close range type of fighting; easy to clean, rudimentary, easy to use for the basic grunt, no easiest breakable parts, powerful, 1 shot one kill with buckshot '00' 8 balls chained (8 lead bullets are tied together on a small chaine, make a hole like a old silver$2 and exit is big as a fist) or with "razorback'sbullets"slugs in lead or steel. believe me at 50 meters it is really accurate and deadly. (I am a former army NCO, grunt squad leader, and shooting range/weapons warden, as well as helicopter pilot, and when I used shotguns I really find them effective. By this position in army I got the opportunity, as well with some travels to shooting range in the USA, to check and try most of the last conflicts weapons, from handguns to HMg.)

 

Of course these weapons as you write are not convenient for long range shooting, but at 400 meter you do not see anything, and most of the combat are in the next 50 to 150 meters. Read reports about the russian fight for the conquest of Germany, or partisan guerilla in russian forest, so close that they can watch at the ennemies eyes.

Anyway, like most people I like game with trenchgun. I like controversial opinion, but I do not want to do polemics pals. I just sharing what I know and what I experienced.

Whatever guys just keep posting and a lot of more interesting discussion.

[Zager]

(I am a former army NCO, grunt squad leader, and fire range/weapons warden, as well as helicopter pilot, and when I used shotguns I really find them effective. By this position in army I got the opportunity, as well with some travels to shooting range in the USA, to check and try most of the last conflicts weapons, from handguns to HMg.)

 

And I am a twenty-one year old university student who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, but it is willing not to allow facts to get in the way of his arguments.

[brandeburg]

Sinceres Apologies, my posts did not intend to inconvenience someone or try to offend, no, really I try to discuss only.

Better to give sites where to get infos: still sorry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indiv...Forces#Shotguns

https://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotguns.php

https://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...203/ai_n9053458

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun

https://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH00-E.HTM

https://www.geocities.com/commande1/vnshotguns.html

https://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyweapons...ainfantry2.htm( this one is about the new generation of shotguns ordered by the USArmy)

[FullAuto]

Very useful weapons in some situations. Ideal for jungle and urban environments, and the choice of slugs or shot is handy too. Better than an assault rifle at close ranges.

[brandeburg]

If you want to see some pictures of the german shotguns, standing or WW2 action pictures watch them into The

 

book "Desperate Measures: Last-Ditch Weapons of the Nazi Volkssturm" author name: William Weaver,

 

email: h i s t p a r t @ v v m .c o m

 

Here some 2 barrels shotguns with or without scope!

[Zager]

Sinceres Apologies, my posts did not intend to inconvenience someone or try to offend, no, really I try to discuss only.

 

I was just making a joke.

[DoomMunky]

Here some 2 barrels shotguns with or without scope!

Scoped shotguns! What is the world coming to?

 

Anybody played H&S yet? I heard a rumor of shotguns in that game...

[Gungadin]

Scoped shotguns! What is the world coming to?

 

Anybody played H&S yet? I heard a rumor of shotguns in that game...

 

Scoped shotgun? Well, I can see how it would benefit the SEVERELY nearsighted but still....

 

As for H n' S, judging from the weapon lists on their website, no shotguns in the game, but the way I understand it, shotguns weren't really used by military units in Europe at that time. I miss the effect though - I always judge a shooting game by the efficiency and overall coolness of its shotguns. (Doom 2 Super Shotgun is still the reigning champ. Double-barrelled ragnarok!)

 

Edit: After re-reading the site, I see that there ARE sawnoff rifles, which probably could work as a kind of shotgun in game mechanics (short range, high damage, slow firing)

 

I wonder about the stationary guns. I hope that now I'll be able to pick up a heavy MG, deploy it, and let the enemy come to me.

 

Edit again: Wikipedia sez: During World War 2, the shotgun was not used heavily in the war in Europe by official military forces. However, the shotgun was a favorite weapon of Allied supported partisans, such as the French Resistance.

 

Good justification for shotguns there methinks. H and S being a WW2 era game, there HAS to be a rendezvous with former members of La Resistance at some point. Has to be. They'll probably all be named Pierre and Jean-Paul as well.

[brandeburg]

Scoped shotgun? Well, I can see how it would benefit the SEVERELY nearsighted but still....

Hi the scopes for shotgun are what we name "hunting scope", they have on the lens a reticule for easy aiming, usualy a triangle, for faster target acquisition.

We are still waiting the release of H&S in western europe!

I need it to do my WW2 Resistance mod.

I got a picture of a german flare they sometime modified to shot fragmentations cartridges.

It would be fun into game!

watch it in weapons mod, what people think about it, should I try to add it via Maya?

[Puksiskissa]

When I Googled the ammo type used by the MAS 36 in Silent Storm, I came up with this 19 year old post. Can't resist necroing, sue me or put pineapple on my pizza if this is outrageous.

Shotguns would be a nice concept. The execution would be hard though.

Three questions arise in my mind:

1) What ammo type would be included and how are they modelled?

A stunning riot shell and a slug would be simple, it is just a single projectile flying. But what about normal shotgun shells with pellets? How would their collision check work and damaging work? Would they be a zero radius explosion?

2) How should they be balanced?

Shotguns are short range weaponry. As are pistols and SMGs in Silent Storm. If they have a high action point cost per shot as you do need to cycle the weapon after firing (or make it a double barrel and force a high AP cost reload after two shots), you are better of firing an SMG burst. If they have a low action point cost and relatively high damage, then the pistols would be even more obsolete than they currently are.

3) Who should use it?

Snipers and medics use rifles. Engineers are similar to medics, they aren't a front line unit. Grenadiers use, you know.. Grenades and rocket launchers.

That leaves you with scouts and soldiers. Soldiers prefer rifles and / or burst weapons. If you are so close to an enemy that a shotgun were effective, you might as well just use the burst weapon that you are already carrying. If you want to shoot with scouts, you want a silenced weapon (which shotguns aren't) or a weapon that is a guaranteed kill from a short distance away: a burst fire weapon.

Overall, shotguns would be a nice addition. But they would end up being either useless SMGs or OP pistols.