inside buildnings?

[richard-]

Simple question.

Will you be able to go inside buildnings in the cities and in other areas as you could in x-com 1. I haven't seen any screenshots of it other than something that looks like x-com bases.

 

please god tell me that you will be able to enter buildnings in the cities.

[Slaughter]

Don't panic now...but no. Sadly you will not be able to do that. ALTAR gave some good and reassuring reasons to why though. I'll post a link to it if I find it at the official boards.

[richard-]

hmm...no panic here but not very good news. really hope there is a good reason. please post if you find it.

well, no mather. I still really look forward to the game.

[Slaughter]

If it is a good explanation I can't really say, but it's a explanation:

https://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewth...=0&id=464828#15

 

And here's a search result with all comments ALTAR (Martin Klima) have made about "enter buildings":

https://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?search=e...785&a=search-do

 

It is not a good thing that it's not possible to enter buildings, but from the explanation I think it's acceptable.

 

Edit: And welcome to the boards! You should introduce yourself in this thread if you intend to stay for a while.

[Sleeplessone]

i see it as since the camera is orbital almost in aftermath it would be hard to keep the buildings in a sensible point of view ( altar mention the lack of floors )

 

the other x-com games , had a isometric view that can be seen from 4 angles so building are easier to draw in them.

 

I dont mind not going into buildings just want to turn them in to rubble with a big heavy gun

[Smurf]

Your guys struggle to navigate their way around waste bins in the street, let alone multi-floored buildings. You can go into bases which are generated as a standard map but once you've seen the mess that the level generator makes of them combined with the random walks your characters take on route to their destinations, you'll be happy to avoid them whenever possible. A real shame about that.

 

By the way don't expect destructible scenery on anything like the same scale as Xcom: Apocalypse(if you played that) as that was more sophisticated (and fun) than Aftermath by a long shot.

[Amenable to Change]

Your guys struggle to navigate their way around waste bins in the street, let alone multi-floored buildings.  You can go into bases which are generated as a standard map but once you've seen the mess that the level generator makes of them combined with the random walks your characters take on route to their destinations, you'll be happy to avoid them whenever possible.  A real shame about that.

 

No Your guys not mine. It's insane to set waypoints so far that it causes problems. I'm not suprised the pathfinding is poor. its because there are very few good path finding algorhythms, and the longer the path to find the problem gets exponetially harder, it's basically a variant of the travelling salesman problem and the best thing to solve those is the human mind. So give your computer a break and plot your own route, you can set multiple way points.

[Pete]

And the maps are so huge you'll be GLAD of not having to enter buldings looking for the last alien etc. You'd be spending a day doing each map at that rate and with hundreds (or more) missions to do befre you're anywhere near through the game, it would soon become tedious.

 

Be glad that some things are simplified and others take your mind of that by being simply brilliant.

 

Get the game and make up your own minds, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed too much.

[Smurf]

No Your guys not mine. It's insane to set waypoints so far that it causes problems. I'm not suprised the pathfinding is poor. its because there are very few good path finding algorhythms, and the longer the path to find the problem gets exponetially harder, it's basically a variant of the travelling salesman problem and the best thing to solve those is the human mind. So give your computer a break and plot your own route, you can set multiple way points.

When the definition of 'too far' is the other end of a narrow corridor, or the other side of a closed door, or around a sharp corner then I don't think it is insane to expect a little bit more from the player-side AI.

 

I agree that there aren't many good pathing algorithms, but then you don't need many. You just need one and they're not using it. There are a whole range of solutions that have been presented over the years to get over the kinds of problems that I've seen while moving the characters and rather than refine them they've opted to just ignore the problems altogether.

 

Why should I have to bother plotting a route through the messily designed levels when I only to have to replot it over and over again when it gets cancelled after meeting an alien or when one of your guys decides that his teammate is a wall and runs off in an unplotted direction (surely they should just come to a halt and wait a second or two).

 

That it happens at all is bad enough but when you realise that they must of known that the movement algorithms were that bad and STILL designed the room templates with one square wide corridors and obstacles that can't be negotiated without manual intervention then I just think it's plain sloppy.

 

In response to Pete: Yes the levels are huge, but that's BECAUSE there aren't multiple level buildings. After all, how else do you add tactical complexity to a game where the main characters feet are glued to ground level? They can't even climb onto a car or a roof to get a better view of the surroundings.

 

You can't ambush properly because the aliens are treated as looking in all directions and why bother anyway when all that most levels require is for you to sit still and wait for them to all come running blindly down the corridor to get massacred by you team. They had to make the levels huge otherwise each map would be over in less time than it took to load.

 

As to finding them, surely it's not to difficult to concieve of an alien scanner, after all they've only been used in just about every sci-fi film and game since star-trek. So you think that would be too easy or cheating? Well let's face it they must all have them since they magically know exactly where you are even after you move to a completely different location after killing one of your opponents. I don't see them benefitting from them much.

 

It would at least get rid of the problem with the occaisional bad guy who gets trapped behind a bit of fence or in a toilet(strangely almost always miles away from where you've slaughtered all the others) forcing you to wander around aimlessly for ten minutes until you find it.

 

I am curious as to what you think is simply brilliant because I'm fairly sure it's not anything in the tactical missions and there isn't a lot else to the game.

 

Basically, don't buy it until after you've tried the playable demo that'll be released next week. But of course the chances are that if you're reading this then you already did. Poor you.

[Smurf]

As an obvious after-thought: Don't rely too much on the demo being representative of the level design as it's fairly safe to say that they will be using pre-generated (and probably hand-made) levels that minimise the problems that appear in the real ones.

[crapgame]

And the maps are so huge you'll be GLAD of not having to enter buldings looking for the last alien etc. You'd be spending a day doing each map at that rate and with hundreds (or more) missions to do befre you're anywhere near through the game, it would soon become tedious.

 

Be glad that some things are simplified and others take your mind of that by being simply brilliant.

 

Get the game and make up your own minds, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed too much.

HUGE MAPS????????? eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh hrrrm eeeeeeh NO

[Pete]

"crapgame" has been banned from all sites and forums across my network for flagrantly abusing forum rules and privileges, signing up with an unacceptable member name, altering his e-mail account after sign-up to something very pro-terrorism and anti-american, thusly providing a false method of contact, spamming, shooting the game down without much in the way of reason...

 

You can click on his member title and view the full list of posts made by this user to see more of why action was neccessary.

 

Should crapgame wish to switch IP or even attempt to re-enter the forums to do the same, his ISP will be contacted and notified of his actions.

 

I think I'm running out of stuff to say, and some of the above isn't in the forum rules (yet), so anyone who wishes to comment on my decision can feel free to send me a personal message (without fear of similar action naturally ).

 

Topic will remain open for continued discussion.

[Pete]

As an obvious after-thought: Don't rely too much on the demo being representative of the level design as it's fairly safe to say that they will be using pre-generated (and probably hand-made) levels that minimise the problems that appear in the real ones.

Smurf, your arguments in this topic so far are fine as they are your personal point of view with some elements that even I must agree with, but please don't do the above and make assumptions of what the demo will be like unless you have experienced it yourself.

 

Feel free to point out that you were right should this later prove to be the case, but don't try to put people off the game by slagging off an unreleased demo and please allow them to make their own decisions.

 

If you've got something more to say about the observations or contents of my current post in this topic, then please use the personal messaging system and we can discuss it privately.

[Smurf]

My bad. Sorry. Play the demo a lot.

[Pete]

No probs, I'm not gonna shout at you I can see that you feel very strongly about your views and that's fine.

[Kal Cyann]

And the maps are so huge

Not all maps r HUGE.

When i did a l8er mission the map was really long but VERY short on width. I could see both black boarders on either side of it. Needless to say it was easy as hell shooting the aliens with all 5 of my team at that time.

[Pete]

Ah, the mission with those lovely greys and that horrible gauntlet of bad guys right?

 

Didn't see the advantage of that mission at all, but never mind eh?

[Kal Cyann]

Yup thats the mission, an yup was a shooting gallery, an yup was easy as hell, an nope no alien got close enough to shoot me, an i don't see a point to it either. Target practice really ???