XCAS Rank structure

[Loonie]

Okay I've become rather interested in our ranks situation lately and I've come up with a possible structure, though in order for it to be perfect we would need one more simmer. The colors indicate different squads and subsquads. Here goes...

 

SENIOR OFFICERS: - Commander (CO) - Colonel (XO)

 

JUNIOR OFFICERS:

 

- Captain (commands Red team) - Lieutenant (serves as sort of an XO to the Red team Captain)

 

- Captain (commands Blue team) - Lieutenant (serves as sort of an XO to the Blue team Captain)

 

REMAINING PERSONNEL:

 

-4 Sergeants (2 under the command of Red team Captain and Lieutenant AND 2 under the command of Blue team Captain and Lieutenant

 

-10 Corporals and Privates (5 under the command of Red team Sergeants AND 5 under the command of Blue team Sergeants

 

 

 

Okay here's how the whole system would work in theory:

 

The top remains pretty much unchanged. The entire X-Com team is headed by the Commander as the CO and the Colonel as the XO. HOWEVER there is one slight change. They no longer usually command Privates or Sergeants for instance, since the real military would not do so either. Instead they ONLY command both Captains or, if they're absent, their XOs - that is to say the both Lieutenants.

 

The primary task of the Commander and the Colonel is overall survival of the X-Com team and its ensured return to Earth.

 

Now what about these two ranks? Each of the two Captains would have their own team (Red and Blue respectively) and would each have a so-called XO - one of the Lieutenants - which would aid them in battlefield decisions like the Colonel helps out the Commander. The Lieutenants would obviously, just like the Colonel to the Commander, also be tasked with other missions. For instance should the team have to split and there would be a Captain and his Lieutenant present, the Captain leads one part of the team whilst the Lieutenant the other.

 

The primary task of the Captains and their Lieutenants is to make sure that their teams (Red or Blue) fullfills whatever task is given to them by the Commander or the Colonel.

 

They have underneath them 2 Sergeants, which command the smaller parts of the team, with the senior or more capable Sergeant commanding 3 Corporals or Privates underneath him and the other commanding 2 Corporals or Privates.

 

Their primary tasks are however a bit more extensive, so this is quite an important rank. They are:

 

-Making sure insubordination is weeded out before missions (but since this will usually only be possible in Roleplay forums, their main mission is to weed it out during mission i.e. If a Private goes against orders the Sarge quickly whaps him into submission)

 

-Coordinating smaller units within their team (Red or Blue) and utilising the soldiers to the maximum potential.

 

-Maintaining morale of the soldiers under them (though individual soldiers of any rank may of course offer assistance to anyone else, like Kacur is now doing with Jacko or Necro)

 

The Privates and Corporals are simply soldiers and nothing else, with the sole exception that Corporals are more experienced and battle hardened and can therefore pull rank over Privates so as to guide them during or in preparations for battles. Their responsibilites are nil, though Corporals may be asked to act as temporary replacement for Sergeants at desperate times.

 

 

Now to make an example of how this would work in practice:

 

The team is deployed on a mission with their primary objective to secure an alien base. The Commander consults with the Colonel on site and decides to send the Red team with its Captain and his Lieutenant through the main entrance. The Commander will join in only to SUPERVISE it, whilst the Colonel will join in with the Blue team and supervise it, whilst it makes the assault on the base from another side entrance (this was of course also decided by the Commander).

 

The Captains of each team move through with the Commander and the Colonel looking over their shoulders. During the assault the Commander and Colonel do NOT interfere in the battle decisions made by the Captain, the Lieutenant, the Sergeants or the Corporals and Privates EXCEPT if they feel that if they did not do so, the team would be destroyed or suffer unacceptable losses or injuries (i.e. one of their subordinates made a bad choice) OR if they require an aide to protect them or carry foward one of their smaller plans that they decide to execute, in order to help the team they are accompanying (Red or Blue). This restriction on ordering each of the teams is neccessary in order to ensure a limited flexibility for the Captains and Lieutenants and their respective teams.

 

Once one of the Captains finds opposition he confers with his Lieutenant "XO" and decides for instance to split the team into two halves, the Captain controlling one of the halves (and 1 of the Sergeants - prefferably the senior one) with the Lieutenant controlling the other (also with the other Sergeant - prefferably the junior). During the battle each half works independantly, though it is obvious that the Captain may order the Lieutenants' half around, if he feels it absolutely neccesary (in order to coordinate efforts OR to correct a mistake the Lieutenant might've made).

 

The Sergeants NOW act in each half as the XO to the Lieutenant or Captain!! Whilst one of these concentrates on the whole battlefield perspective of the team (Red or Blue), the Sergeant maximises the halfs' full fire potential. For instance the Sarge's half has rifles and autocannons with HE rounds and there are Chrysallids and Arachnomortuses approaching. The Sergeant therefore orders the people with the rifles to fire at the Arachnomortuses and the HE Autocannon people to fire at the Chrysallids, since he knows that is the quickest and most effective method, and so on... He also makes sure that if anyone panics or is under alien control, he quickly intervenes to restrain or disable the individual so that he/she cannot cause any harm to the half.

 

The Corporals and Privates simply do what they are told, though Corporals may offer advice to Privates or order them around so as to guide them if they ever become confused or disorientated.

 

There.

 

It may sound complicated, but read it through a few times. I'm sure it'll set in.

 

 

As you can see for yourself, the whole system is actually more based on two individuals being placed higher or lower on the rank ladder and both of them coordinate their efforts to their common goal. The Commander and the Colonel have the mission of getting the team to Earth and they focus on it. The Captains and Lieutenants have the goal to lead their teams effectively and they focus on it. The Sergeants have the goal to keep the Corporals and Privates in check and maximised and yet again there are 2 of them in each team, which coordinate their efforts. Whilst finnaly at the lowest ladder the Corporals and Privates have the goal of fullfilling orders the best they can, with the Corporals showing an example for the Privates.

 

Overall it works great,.......in theory at least.

 

I know what you're going to say too DH. "Heh, in sims we will rarely get the EXACTLY right ranks that we need " I know about this and I've anticipated it as well. if the sim is for instance filled like this:

 

1 Commander

1 Lieutenant

1 Corporals and 3 Privates

 

No problem! The Commander assumes the role of the Captain and the Lieutenant serves as his XO in battle. The Corporal being more responsible than a Private assumes the role of Sergeant and a team is thus formed (although I admit it is not perfect it is still quite good)

 

Even in this event:

 

1 Commander

6 Privates

 

all is not lost. The Commander chooses the Private for which he feels is most capable and he serves as the Commander's XO and they lead the team out. Obviously there is no one to serve the "Sergeant" role here so that either the Private or the Commander will just have to work extra hard to coordinate the team effort (or not at all if they don't want to, though a strict GM would demand heavier injuries that way ).

 

In any event this thing would be quite flexible, but still as long as the team remembers the original first structure (the one with the colors) and do their best to follow it up, BUT from the lower positions in the structure upwards! (and regardless of rank!!), then the overall net result, I believe, would still be quite good indeed.

 

This sturcture also has many pros, namely that it severely slacks off the problem about too many rank classes Another pro is also that the simmers would have a relation to whom they could roleplay to in the roleplay forums. For instance Ko would roleplay that he and Ong (his supposed XO Lieutenant) have been developing new tactics together and have worked on it, and so on with the others... Another useful pro is that it would open up two new spots (and if Jacko's sacrifice is accepted even 3!!) for any new people that want to prove themselves or have been doing very good indeed. This is especially good since it also leaves plenty of free space for future recruits that would really excell at simming. ;) Not only that but because of the previous flexibility of the ranks in order to follow up to the original structure (the one with 1 Commander and 6 Privates), even the capable Privates, that would otherwise eventually not be able to get promoted, could assume the role of a Sarge or even a Lieutenant!!! (if they were capable enough of course ) So much for the dissapointed because of not getting a better rank, eh DH?

 

There is only one problem if we were to introduce this. The Veterans (Richter, Brain, DH, Ghost, Saber, Yorke, Jacko, Necro) along with the promising new recruits which could preform at the higher ranks (like IonMage or,.......*ahem*...me - kick me in the rear if I went out of line will ya ). In any event these people would have to work hard indeed on their simming and by simming I mean in regards to command positions. :hmmm: Whilst most of you are already preforming at a pretty good level indeed, there are also some of you which do not follow up your ranks. Now I think that the problem is only in the Sergeants (not wanting to insult anyone but that's how I feel it is), along with perhaps Ghost concentrating just a *tad* too much on his own actions and not on team play (though I admit I could be wrong here). So there would need to be only two REAL Sarges (the senior ones) which would do the work, with the junior ones providing help at times, or also perhaps occasionally doing some ordering themselves. This is most likely going to be neccesary, as trying to find 4 Sergeants that are fully capable of command is not feasible (so far I would only count on Howardson as being truly capable of preforming the job, with also perhaps Yorke at times).

 

In any event we would have to step it up on roleplaying not only our characters, but also our rank! This has been emphasized before and it is the key! Bottom line in my opinion? We need good Sergeants (at least one more), along with finding a solid new Captain (who that would be however I am currently stumped and we would have to test each simmer quite rigorously for the job).

 

Overall I strongly feel this. If we follow this plan up, we will experience some difficulties accustoming to it in the first month or two, BUT I promise you that if we pull it off, the simming WILL be improved indeed and it will feel a lot more militaristic as well.

 

In any event this was an idea that just popped into my head whilst I was walking down the street to my piano lessons, so.....there.

 

I think it is a good one and I would urge the brass (Mouse, Brain, DH, Ghost,...) to slowly and carefully consider if this were possible and most of all do NOT dissmiss it quickly! I think you do a great job, though at certain times I get the serious impression that you are afraid of making new changes.

 

Anyway Good luck and God's speed!

 

Loonie...

 

P.S. I now await the thundering counters to my proposal to roll down the hill (especially from you DH, don't let me down )

[DragonHawk]

Since Loonie wants it this way, here are the things that are problematic with using this:

 

1. Currently (without NPCs) we hardly have enough troopers to fill even one team, let alone two. Heh, of course, this is related to point 2, below.

 

2. Note that, despite everyone getting training, not everyone is a 'soldier'. If there are going to be combat teams, the soldiers, combat medics, and psionists should be counted. Scientists and engineers are auxiliary, in my opinion. Bring 'em when you need 'em, otherwise you can leave them at home.

 

3. A team that small doesn't really need to be lead by a Captain. Why not have the Lieutenant play lead? That means that there will be no conferring, the officer really commands, as opposed to group sessioning with a junior. That doesn't mean the LT should not ask for advice from his sergeants, but for the most part, the LT (or whichever) should run command as he sees fit.

 

4. Current rank isn't really related to combat duties. It's not really related to anything. As it is, only our current LTs are ground combat troops. Mouse is the CO, Brain is a pilot, I'm the ship's engineer. Does that mean I as a Captain get to command a combat team? Do I get demoted in order to serve as an auxiliary?

 

Having said that, I think that this plan is workable... Sorta. Again, it will take some work. The things I do like:

 

1. Each soldier has a position. Each soldier knows his team. I'm hoping that means that over time, each soldier will be able to work with his team better, and foster a bit of esprit de corps in each team. This could backfire too, but anything can... I suspect, though, that Loonie was not referring to permanent team assignment, which is what I would prefer. It's not as expedient as mobile teams though.

 

2. The chain of command is a good idea, in principle. I really like it, as most people know. That's the way we try to do it, but for the most part, we're failing now. Still, practice, right?

 

By the way, I'm not in favour of making it as rigid as what Loonie implies, but I'm sure he wouldn't do this either... I think a Private will offer advice with the same regularity as a Corporal, both up and down the ladder.

 

Other comments, in no particular order:

 

1. Yes, of course, the "brass" doesn't want change, that's why we never implement anything. It's nice and well that people think the officers are loafing and don't consider the suggestions made. If anyone thought that the decisions that were I made were because I was afraid to change anything, I apoligize. I've had a number of my suggestions shrugged off, I know how it feels, but I also have faith in the members of the sim, that they didn't just ignore and forget.

 

2. If anyone else has any ideas, please put it forth. We should throw around ideas to get workable ones, since it's obviously important.

 

3. In addition, if anyone does NOT want to change the rank structure, please make a post. It's important that both support and dissention be noted here. If any plans get implemented from this thread, I don't expect to hear "hey man, I didn't know, I don't like it".

 

4. Implementing any plan is going to be hard, but if we stick with it, we can push it through.

 

Again, please put up your suggestions. Kmork and I already have some ideas fleshed out, but we wouldn't actually want to foster the idea that we care about the sim, it might ruin our reputations.

[Loonie]

Okay, just so as to clarify on a few things:

 

1. Currently (without NPCs) we hardly have enough troopers to fill even one team, let alone two. Heh, of course, this is related to point 2, below.

 

This structure was not meant to be implemented in practical terms. Its main purpouse is to act as a good foundation, so that no one can say that there are too few lower ranked personnel or too many higher ranked people. If we ever manage to implement it in a sim, well....heh I'll be glad to have a sim with 20 people, though I don't think that will happen anytime soon. So anyway, bear in mind that we don't need active personnel for this at all. This is just so as to give an initial structure so as to sort out how many Lieutenants, Captains and Sergeants there should be. And as far as troopers go, I will explain in the next point.

 

2. Note that, despite everyone getting training, not everyone is a 'soldier'. If there are going to be combat teams, the soldiers, combat medics, and psionists should be counted. Scientists and engineers are auxiliary, in my opinion. Bring 'em when you need 'em, otherwise you can leave them at home.

 

As far as engineers are considered, I don't think its the same with them as scientists (and neither do I think its the same with hackers). As I told DH once after the creation of this reply, every team can use an engineer with a pack of our C-6 in case demolition is required (and hackers are also quite useful too, though there won't be many worries about them as there are only 2 obviously). Scientists considered? - True they might not fight the best, BUT they can also provide useful on site analysis of objects or weapons and the info that they gather just could save the team from anything serious (like when McCarthy determined a MIRV device as he was a hacker and thus saved the team, the scientist could do something similar with some other technology). So you see that despite not quite being 'soldiers' these two classes still CAN help out the team a lot even in non-science missions.

 

3. A team that small doesn't really need to be lead by a Captain. Why not have the Lieutenant play lead? That means that there will be no conferring, the officer really commands, as opposed to group sessioning with a junior. That doesn't mean the LT should not ask for advice from his sergeants, but for the most part, the LT (or whichever) should run command as he sees fit.

 

The idea behind is that a Captain would lead such a 'small' team because of the rank problems currently presented to us. If the Captains would not lead these 'small' teams then we'd have the problem right back with us. The idea for the Captain conffering with his Lieutenant actually sparked as a result of the last sim when I was in sort of that role with Ong.

 

Whilst he wanted to rush into the bridge and end the mission real quick, I of course offered a different point of view, that we could be lead into an ambush. Though I strongly disadvised him to continue on the bridge, he made the final decision to go through it and we got hammered (though I admit that as a GM I also had it setup that way and wanted Ong to think if it would be worth it to just risk it and run to the bridge )

 

The reason for the conffering would be a wider array of options. It was many times that way too otherwise in the sims, that when Mouse ordered us to our positions, I would offer other possible alternatives and he could accept or reject them. Though this says that even a Private can offer advice it is in a way true, though in this situation the Lieutenant would be the more 'experienced' if things went according to plan as far as rank went and would therefore have more chances of providing USABLE alternatives.

 

----------

 

Anyway I have also come up with a different rank structure whilst skiing today, though the bottom line is that if the rank problems are to be softened the Captians MUST lead 'small' teams.

 

Here's the other possibility...

 

1 Captain ----> 1 Sergeant ----> 3 Corporals and Privates

 

1 Captain ----> 1 Sergeant ----> 3 Corporals and Privates

 

1 Lieutenant ----> 1 Sergeant ----> 2 Corporals and Privates

 

1 Lieutenant ----> 1 Sergeant ----> 2 Corporals and Privates

 

Now this way we would eliminate the "conffering" thing that you don't want DH. However there are several cons too when compared to the previous system. The first is that the Captain now leads an even 'smaller' team and the second is that it kind of equals the Captains' position with the Lieutenants'. I mean sure they can order them around and have 1 more soldier in their squad, but that's pretty much it! Also note that whilst in the previous structure we would need at least 2 good Sergeants (sim wise as far as simming their rank is considered). Here we need at least 3 and even then I would rather go to full 4. The reason for this is that in the previous structure one of the sergeants could be senior (the "better" one) and he could also order the less capable sarge around too and also keep the team together and cohesive. Here they are in separate groups and that means that if the Sarge in the group is lousy, then the whole team will of course not be motivated and that I would not like to see in simming.

 

But in any case. Consider the old system too and do not jump into this new one!! However once you've considered both I could deal with either one.

 

4. Current rank isn't really related to combat duties. It's not really related to anything. As it is, only our current LTs are ground combat troops. Mouse is the CO, Brain is a pilot, I'm the ship's engineer. Does that mean I as a Captain get to command a combat team? Do I get demoted in order to serve as an auxiliary?

 

Look, everyone serves a purpouse on the team and each person's contribution is equally important (no matter how you flip it, it always is in the long run). Since that stands there is no damn reason you should be demoted. For all I care a hacker could be a Colonel and it wouldn't make the slightest difference. Heh, actually I think that you have a bit of trouble separating rank from position, thinking that the higher the rank, the more chest hairs a person has, eh?

 

I suspect, though, that Loonie was not referring to permanent team assignment, which is what I would prefer.

 

Of course not! That would be impossible to execute as simmers that turn up for a sim are usually a bit random and if one person doesn't show we're all screwed. No. As I initially stated the present simmers would do their best to arrange themselves according to the original structure as best as they could AND from the lower ranks up obviously.

 

The chain of command is a good idea, in principle. I really like it, as most people know. That's the way we try to do it, but for the most part, we're failing now. Still, practice, right?

 

Actually DH, if you really think about it there isn't THAT much work to do. The officers (Lieutenant up) would only need minor improvements. The only problem exists in the Sergeant range. If we were to take the first structure under your 3. section, then we wouldn't really need much work (Howardson I am certain will do well and if we really can't find any other solution, I might even ascend up to the challenge, if of course I would appropriately prove myself first. ). If you went on the second plan under your 3. point however, that would be tougher. We would need to implement Howardson, me (if I could do it) and at LEAST another one. But I guess we could leave those positions to any new promising arrivals, since me and Howardson are very regular in the sims.

 

I am also confident that some Privates can have enough insight, if not more, than Corporals and the higher ranks. Sure they can provide advice. Mind you they musn't (or at least shouldn't HAHAH ) order the higher ranks. THAT could end quite badly if the Sarge was tough (as I am working hard on making them that way, heh )

 

Okay! That's it. Hope I clarified on some issues there.

 

Now people...RESPOND DAMMIT!!! This is damn important here. :hmmm:

[Andrew_175]

Nice idea, we just need to recruit!

 

Andy

[Loonie]

AND TRAIN NECRO!!! Especially you Sarge folk!

[Mouse Nightshirt]

Hmmm, I like, I like...

 

However, as much as I like this idea, as DH says, it's hard to run a hierarchy as it stands. There are simply the roles we play, rather than the ranks we play, and as DH says, it would suit combat teams more efficiently.

 

I really do like the part about linkage downwards, it gives myself, or any other person who is GMing able to GM more efficiently, as they are covered on all fronts, regardless of their rank.

 

Recruiting is a major concern. XCAS is a year and a half old, and our sources are drying up. In light of this, and the continual debate about ranking hierarchy means that a major shakeup is needed, and Loonie's suggestion will probably be the first (if very very long) step.

 

My primary concern, as stated, is recruits and activity. There are now quite a few dependable simmers, and I would like to commend them very much. Infact, most of the current members are active, which I appreciate very much. It's the people who are inactive that concern me; their places are simply not getting filled, which is dangerous.

 

Also, I really appreciate suggestions. People do say I shrug a lot of them off, but most of XCAS is built around suggestions; the majority of the UFOpaedia was suggested, much of the storyline progression is suggested, even Saturday sims, which are all-in-all, nearly as popular as the Sunday Sims, were suggested. I do take into consideration all suggestions which are put forward, including this one.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that ranking should be improved. I also note that it is much harder now for lower ranking people, such as Privates and Corporals to progress up the chain, due to the saturation of higher ranks.

 

My response is posted. I shall post more if the need arises.

[Ion Mage]

The debate returns!

 

This system could work pretty well, to be honest. Im still all for total reassignment of the ranks, BUT i say give this plan a shot before that.

 

Hows this for a plan;

 

1: We follow loonies structure. No changing of ranks

 

2: We train the current high-ranks to actually command people.

 

3: We continue on for a couple sims, then determine whether its working.

 

4: If, and only IF there still is a problem, we can consider rearranging the ranks. Im not putting the blame on any of the higher-ups, but command must be taken! (this means you, sarges )

[Loonie]

Exactly! I say we debate and refine this proposal for a little while more and then we put it to the test during sims. I can always restate the whole deal also because I'll probably be on almost every occasion present.

 

If it is generally satisfactory, we continue to build on it, improving it. Should it not be too good however, well........we have to scrap it unfortunately.

 

But I'll do my best to let it work well. That I will.

[Mouse Nightshirt]

This whole debate has always hinges on the one very important aspect; The saturation of the upper ranks...

[Loonie]

Yes, but also on more upper ranks being free for newer and promising members. These two things are opposing each other, but I'm sure you could agree that 10 higher ranks (of which 6 officers) versus 10 ordinary soldiers is NOT too high saturation. I know it's a relative issue, but we have to give some leeway into certain directions...

[DragonHawk]

The creation of more officer ranks does what? Not much, because the next batch of simmers will say the same thing.

 

Well, it's not so important in my opinion, but if it's really important to the new guys, then I'll step down. Let's end the argument, and go straight to the solution to the problem, not dicker about creating some ficticious and temporary solution.

[Loonie]

Well, it's not so important in my opinion, but if it's really important to the new guys, then I'll step down. Let's end the argument, and go straight to the solution to the problem, not dicker about creating some ficticious and temporary solution.

 

I know what you mean by this DH. But some people here are not ready to break and shatter this structure. And that's why I put this proposal up, so that if we cannot shatter it, then at least we can improve it (hopefully).

 

I don't expect our simmer count to go past 20 and you will notice that if it doesn't then this structure should serve us relatively well. It is of course not perfect, but then again nothing is (not even your solution to shatter this current structure).

 

I firmly believe that this will bode much better not just for dispersing the ranks problem, but also to increase simming quality. I really can't say that much more about it. Unless Kmork or Brain have some ideas then I propose we put this structure to the test at the earliest opportunity (as in this week if at all possible!). If you have any other thoughts or improvements about it until then, well.....post. But if you have complaints then please limit them and just try to bear with me this one time...

[Ghost]

I wish to make a few comments here as well yes. Not so much to the precise way of how you put things, but more to the general idea behind it.

 

As said above, this all hinges on one thing indeed: The saturation of ranks.

There can only be so many higher ranks, and the officers are always outnumbered by the lower ranks. There will also always be lower ranks that would want to get higher up in ranks. Creating more higher ranks will not solve that problem unless we get more lower ranks.

Regardless of this I am sensing another problem with your system: It highly depends on people working with the chain of command, but at current I am noticing that even now most people do not uphold the chain of command while in-character. Privates and corporals often do things without orders being given, though I admit that also the officers might want to work on being more of an authority figure, giving orders for troops to do something, rather then depending on letting them do it.

I think before everything, the people of this sim, all of them, including myself, will need to learn some discipline. They will need to learn to really work as a military unit, if even only in the way of listening to your superiors and waiting for orders.

 

Oh and another thing: Thank you for your comment about my simming style. I seriously mean that, I do want to hear if anyone has criticism about my style, or anyone's. It does help one improve his style if he knows what others think of it, and if he know what he does 'wrong'. Of course there is no such thing as right or wrong with simming or roleplaying, but it helps a lot to know if someone has a comment about it. I will be doing my best to try and let my actions be more directed to the team as a whole, although as being a sniper and a scout, commonly a bit loner positions, that might not be too easy. I'll do my best though.

 

Personally (and I do not mean any offense at all by this, I am just noting a little concern of my own) I have the feeling some people are attaching a bit too much meaning to getting a higher rank. I personally don't give a flying fart about what rank I am, though whatever rank I am I will do my best to fulfill my duties for that rank as such. Being a lieutenant (officer) at this time, I will do my best to try and keep the team running, and to aid it in any way possible, and I fear that I do not feel so very much for changing the ranking structure in the fashion you suggest. Another idea that would be possible is a complete re-evaluation of everyone, to re-fill the ranks. This evaluation could of course be done by the Commander then (who of course remains Commander). I am not saying this is the idea that has to be done, nor am I saying I would not be willing to work with your idea, I am just stating my opinions on these matters, and that is what was asked of me.

[Ion Mage]

hmmmm... any comments on my simming style?

[DragonHawk]

heh, well, I don't have any yet... other than the 'usual' that would apply to all simmers. However, let's keep this thread on topic.

[Loonie]

Regardless of this I am sensing another problem with your system: It highly depends on people working with the chain of command, but at current I am noticing that even now most people do not uphold the chain of command while in-character.

 

Exactly what I've already pointed out. We need to learn how to better sim not just our characters but also our ranks!

 

Privates and corporals often do things without orders being given,

 

However, THAT problem can be negated rather easily from my point of view. We just need one rank layer to act as it militarily should. The Sergeants. As long as this doesn't turn into a majority (i.e. that every one of them or most of them do it) then there can be a Private or a Corporal that has more problems with orders or is somewhat more sloppy. However such a Private or Corporal must quickly be hammered down by the resident Sarge, which in turn must of course notice the Private or Corporal's insubordination.

 

Another idea that would be possible is a complete re-evaluation of everyone, to re-fill the ranks. This evaluation could of course be done by the Commander then (who of course remains Commander).

 

I know this already. I explained it to DH in the previous post too. I would like to do a complete re-evaluation OR as DH suggests brake and shatter the current rank structure, but not enough people agree. And if there can be no radical change, then at least we can work inside the system and change it (hopefully) to suit us better. I'm not saying in any way that this will solve all of our problems forever, but I AM saying that it will solve problems for a good amount of time.

 

Anyway I would like to thank you all for responding. I hope to hear some word from Brain as well by Saturday, since if everyone tries to be present tommorow I would like to put this structure to the practical test in a non-XCAS sim. So far I had not detected a solid point which would refute my plan (though I know that that's not your purpouse. Only so that you state your opinion which I appreciate fully. ). Therefore since no one can give me a solid reason as to why we shouldn't implement this plan, I propose that we meet tommorow to see how it works in practice. If by the end of the sim we are all simply exhausted and bored, then it would be quite obvious that this simply isn't our solution. But if we have fun and feel good about it come END SIM, then it will not mean that it is fullproof, but it will definately mean that we are on the right track.

 

I hope to see you there all and hope that the latter turns out to be true.

 

Loonie

[Ghost]

I think the system sucked during the sim, I mean nobody knew who to listen to anymore and.... huh? What? Oh you haven't dont the sim yet? Tomorrow? Oh damn, me and my big mouth, why am I always too early. Now you'll all think I'm prejudiced of course

 

<<Note for all serious people out here: This post is total and utter BS, I will not judge a system to be faulty before I've seen it, even if my opinion about it would be negative. I personally am no supporter of this new system, I am honest with that, though I will look at it objectively if I can make it saturday, and will post my opinion on whether I think it might or might not work there, or here, whichever >>

[DragonHawk]

I would hasten to point out that there is no change being proposd, other than extending the rigidity of ranks. The "simmng problem" is one that has been discussed before, and mention was probably made in this very forum. It is independent of the ranking arrangement, to most a reasonable extent. So, the question is, what changes? It's a nice storyline structure for ranking, and I approve of that, but it doesn't actually affect the sim that much.

[Loonie]

Look, I've already explained what this rank changing will need: Better coordination and simming from us. It's just in a bit of a different style.

 

To be perfectly frank this last post from you can be effectively translated into: "We aren't making a NEW rank structure." and you will undoubtebly continue saying so to any new proposal that tries to improve the current system. BUT as I have already stated twice before, we cannot make a new one OR re-evaluate everyone (at least not yet).

 

So try to make it tommorow and you'll see about the changes as far as the sim is considered and we'll all see if the system is worth pursuing.

 

P.S. And please hold your gripes for me till tommorow. Then you'll be able to get a broader audience. (trust me you will )

[Ghost]

DH will not be able to make it tomorrow

[DragonHawk]

I'm all for the objectives you set forth, Loonie, I merely do not see how changing ranks will do any of that.

 

I'm not saying that a new rank structure will not be put into place, but the ranking structure is not for the purposes of chain of command - there is one in place already, it's merely not being followed. The same potential exists in any arrangement, whether created by you, me, Mouse, or anyone in or out of this sim. It's not the ranking structure that affects how the sim is played out, it's the players in it.

 

If you'd like, this plan is in effect for the next three weeks, minimum. Any less than that is not particularly valuable.

[Mouse Nightshirt]

Look, I've already explained what this rank changing will need: Better coordination and simming from us. It's just in a bit of a different style.

 

I seriously, seriously doubt that. I do not see how any change in ranking will affect simming co-ordination. In all reality, ranks really boil down to fun, as does the entire of XCAS. As I did say in the rules and regulations, and this is the rule that I most stringently enforce in all ways, is that rank should not be taken out of the sims, and into OOS conversations. As long as that rule is kept up to scratch, ranks simply have little importance other than cosmetic value. It helps organisation in the sim, but only slightly, and changing the rank structure, IMHO will not affect the sim in anyway whatsoever.

[Loonie]

Look, I can't be bothered to keep repeating things through. Try to make it in these following weeks and we'll see for ourselves. That's all. :dontgetit:

[DragonHawk]

For the benefit of those who missed, today's sim started a bit late, and was a bit clumsy throughout, but overall it hasn't been a total failure, so we'd like to keep this going for the next weekend (where I'll be missing Saturday again...).

 

*EDIT* For clarity, we are not using the ranking structure, but we are attempting to enforce the chain of command a bit more.

[Ghost]

I will do my utmost best to be there next weekend (and not have a failing ISP this time). There is a good chance I will miss saturday again (though of course not certain), but I should certainly be there sunday.