Bio drone self-destruct kills

[Tsathoggua]

When a biodrone gets taken out and explodes, who gets 'credited' with the kill if the round that kills the drone is fired by an X-com trooper, but the subsequent explosion of the drone then goes and turns a civilian or three into squelchy pink fog?

 

I've noticed that sometimes it looks like the explosion occurs BEFORE the drone appears to die, or at least, before its corpse hits the ground. Sometimes even exploding and then a corpse hits the deck, and remains intact. Well, very very dead, but in one piece, as something one would recognize as a corpse. Does this mean that the drone is doing something like setting off a grenade at its feet, in terms of game mechanics, 'dropping ''it'', blowing itself to hell and then dying, or does the death occur before the explosion, as would happen if a soldier were carrying a primed grenade sufficient to ensure a self-kill in any event, but the actual fatal blow came from another weapon fired by another unit? As the 'clink-crunch' death scream of a destroyed drone seems at least sometimes to happen after the explosion.

 

If the drone triggers the explosion, as the AI sees things, then dies, then the bugs would be credited for the civilian kill and x-com gets the score penalty for a meatshiel..I mean civilian killed by aliens, right? but if it dies then explodes, who the hell owns that? because corpses are items, but its neither been fired, nor thrown (thinking like grenades here, the last person to throw a live grenade gets the credit for the kill, only in that case NOBODY threw it.

 

Got a terror site just popped up, and my team has just landed, coelacanth/GC out the door, smoke screen waiting to go off to cover egress from the LZ, the door of the triton facing the direction closest to the end of the map thankfully, but plenty of trouble waiting nevertheless, in the shape of at least a biodrone, an as yet unboiled, but still seriously cranky lobster packing a blaster and some other bugger west-north-west of the LZ, partially covered by the triton but close enough to cause trouble as evinced by a react-fired sonic shot of some kind that just skimmed past the tank, which promptly buggered back off the way it came before managing to spot the shooter.

 

Thank my lucky stars the science boys have been on their toes and doing a thorough job of late, my desparate hurry for at least sonic pistols managing to finish up both the pistol and rifle, plus ammunition, so now I've been able to keep just a handful of the gauss rifles for their autofire capability in case of up-close-and-very-personal encounters while the rest get blasters, or gas cannon/sonic pistol combinations and pistol/tazers.

 

Although somewhere along the lines, all the damned medkits have vanished!. Looks like I'm going to have to pull the agents up and see who's got pinpoint pupils or dinner-plate eyes and nothing left but wound sealant packs. If I catch the bugger then they are taking point with a pistol and stun rod next time a USO full of berserkirgang gillmen need some facial rearrangement. Sure wasn't this commander...I don't need to raid the medpacks, I get my own personal one, thats meant to be there. Well at least most of it is:D

 

But they were there last mission, got back, and between dusting off, with no casualties, no injuries, no use of the med-kits and arriving back at base, SOMEBODY sure as hell has been mainlining the good bits, because they damned well weren't there when the men got back to base.

[magic9mushroom]

Dunno about Bio-Drones specifically, but this is how Cyberdiscs work TTBOMK:

 

1) Take fatal shot, crash and generate corpse. Corpse falls to the ground (if there are different elevation levels beneath various bits, that renders the corpse irretrievable; this obviously doesn't matter for Bio-Drones since they're not large units).

 

2) 120 HE explosion centred on where the Cyberdisc's primary quarter was. Usually destroys the corpse, but if it was in the air when it died the corpse will fall down while the explosion's still in the same place and the corpse will survive due to 2D explosions.

 

3) Any civilians killed by the explosion are listed as killed by X-Com, and any aliens killed are listed as killed in the score tally (whether they're added to the shooter's kill count I don't know, but since kill count doesn't matter it's not very important). Any other Cyberdiscs killed by the explosion will not themselves explode (and thus will leave corpses).

 

4) Cyberdiscs killed by stun rod (and Bio-Drones killed by drill) will not explode. Cyberdiscs killed by Small Launcher WILL explode.

[Kir'jaeden]

Civillian scoring is very buggy in TFTD. It is possible to abrupt 2-staged terror mission and get the score for the saved civillians. Paralyzed civillians give no score at all - neither positive, nor negative. MCed civillians get hostile and once you MCed them you need to deal with them.

 

Biodrone explosion occurs after its death. When you shoot down the hovering one, the corpse falls down but the explosion somehow occurs at initial biodrone height. They behave like Cyberdiscs of EU. TFTD extender corrects its melee attack. They become most deadly terror units.

[NKF]

To add to this:

 

Experience gain isn't obtained from the Bio-Drone explosion. Normally you get 1 point of Firing Accuracy experience every time you score a hit on an enemy with a bullet or 1 for each enemy caught in an area-of-effect attack from a grenade, thermal shok bomb or torpedo.,With the Bio-Drone, the self-destruct explosion will not grant you any additional experience beyond what you obtained from the final blow.

 

Of course, there may be some weird experience attribution there and the game's granting the experience to your Coelacanth or the first aquanaut on the list. This happens when you prime and drop grenades from your inventory rather than throwing them.

 

- NKF

[Tsathoggua]

The tank? care to explain how? do you mean to say, the tank, as long as it survives, can be improved? that would be neat, especially once one gets to the point where your taking along a sonic displacer (or the PWT one, but buggered if Tsath' EVER uses the things, probably tried them at some point but they just don't really have much to recommend them IMO. The rounds are weaker and you don't get many. The tank takes up too much valuable space, space that could far better be used for a sonic or gauss tank. Now if only the chassis were interchangeable and one could mount a gauss cannon on the displacer chassis, that would be perfect. Although the sonic is pretty damn good all round, the ability to pack almost 100 shots from the tank's turret mounted cannon coupled with the massive amount of TU, the near invulnerability to those foul tentacled abominations of the abyss (don't pretend you don't know who I mean there;) don't even. Who else.........

 

And the heavy, heavy heavy armor plating, ability to fly AND fire 3 very accurate snap-shots makes the displacer/sonic one HELL of a force multiplier, not to mention a well nigh perfect scout and bullet magnet/tentaculat magnet (why? for something with a brain that makes up well nigh 95% of its body mass at the least, and which relies on a close combat attack totally reliant upon the toxicity and egg implantation effect, attacking a crowbegotten BATTLE TANK, and one built out of advanced alien materials at that with what is the equivalent of an octopus beak, well, all that brain, but not an excitatory action potential in sight:P

 

Might as well attack a brick wall with a banana. But the tentaculats (thank blazes, that is probably their one, and only redeeming feature) they go sick themselves on the tanks to the exclusion of the aquanauts for the most part. Thats not a complaint, mind you. Its a bloody relief to say the least. Quite satisfying when they make up for their having suddenly glided round the corner and stop right next to your fireteam, capable if they so decided of wiping out your entire squad in moments, but no, instead, turning round and attempting to zombify the heavily armored weapons platform only to get a dirty great tank cannon stuck down that beak-hole and end up popped like a pus-filled zit dripping down the walls of whatever nasty little bug-infested hellhole currently being paid a visit by the pest control team from their worst nightmares.

 

Didn't expect to get experience from the secondary explosion. Just wondered if civilians caught in the blast area when a bio-drone is sent to meet its maker

inflicted a penalty for A-the aliens scoring a kill or weather the penalty is counted as x-com agents directly inflicting the fatality.

Because its going to be one way or the other. Or both. Would be a real swine to get punished twice for the same civilian kill.

 

I'm not about to simply generalize going from the cyberdisc in UFO-enemy unknown to the drones. For one, the cyberdisc is a 4-tile unit, mechanics are going to be somewhat different at least. And the extent of the altered AI in TFTD is pretty large-scale. And compared to the cyberdisc the drone is far smaller. Not sure how that

affects things, if it does at all.

 

Kinda takes the piss though, doesn't it, that the dying drone's explosion if it kills civilians inflicts a penalty for an x-com direct kill, yet one does not score for secondary bug kills. Although its still satisfying to drop a done right down on the heads of a bunch of bugs and blow them all to hell.

Hehehe, last terror mission fought, lobstermen brought a whole load (5-6 or so) drones with them, night mission, two drones one next to the other in a fenced off enclosure, all the men behind the triton with a coelacanth playing spotter, peeking out and buggering back off, so the troops were able to rain down multiple pulse grenades right down underneath the lil blighters. Two turns. Spot, hide, 2,3,4,5 pulsers winging through the air. Big mess of the first drone, slightly higher in elevation than the second, courtesy of a bunch of boxes. Pulse grenades leave drone no.1 a smoking ruin, it drops through the air, lands on the other, still somehow living drone and turns it to scrap metal and brain tissue slush puppy. One drone DID manage to get a quick shot off at the coelacanth/G-C. but missed, took a couple of gas cannon rounds for its trouble and subsequently wiped from the face of the earth by the rain of sonic grenades.

 

Was funny as hell to use one drone to waste another. Never managed that before, but they were right next to each other, barring the slight elevation protecting the second drone from the almighty mother of a blast from all those pulse grenades going off at once. Thought 'damn! no more TUs to do anything about the other drone, going to lose the tank, or at least it'd take a lot of damage' but no, for once, one of those evil things was actually helpful *grins evilly*

 

 

Does firing accuracy increase from being caught in the blast radius of an incendiary round?

 

Edit-Oh, and the bio-drones BECOME a deadly terror unit? why? what were they to begin with? I'd hardly describe them as cuddly and sweet:P:D

 

What does 'TTBOMK' mean? and I take it by 'abrupt 2 part...' you mean abort? I very, very very VERY rarely ever, ever abort a mission. Not a terror mission at any rate, the penalty for doing so and leaving the place to go to hades in a handcart, is just way too high.

Where possible I stun the civilians. Got a question about that actually though. In other versions than the one I have of TFTD, they left bodies, either if stunned or killed. Now there are none. Could do with being able to stun and then drag them off to safety, and if they don't leave a body, living or otherwise, then there is no way to revive them again with a medkit.

 

Throwing them off the roof of buildings, or ..ahem...defenestrating them, the way I like doing to particularly irritating bugs would be immensely amusing

[Zombie]

The tank? care to explain how? do you mean to say, the tank, as long as it survives, can be improved? that would be neat, especially once one gets to the point where your taking along a sonic displacer (or the PWT one, but buggered if Tsath' EVER uses the things, probably tried them at some point but they just don't really have much to recommend them IMO. The rounds are weaker and you don't get many. The tank takes up too much valuable space, space that could far better be used for a sonic or gauss tank. Now if only the chassis were interchangeable and one could mount a gauss cannon on the displacer chassis, that would be perfect. Although the sonic is pretty damn good all round, the ability to pack almost 100 shots from the tank's turret mounted cannon coupled with the massive amount of TU, the near invulnerability to those foul tentacled abominations of the abyss (don't pretend you don't know who I mean there;) don't even. Who else.........

 

Tanks can never improve their stats be it through their own actions or your team. It can still get kills accredited to it though (and I assume maybe it will even get FA accuracy points if it kills), but when the end of mission routine runs, all those values are wiped and the tank starts out with fresh stats. (Actually, that may technically be a little wrong... the tank might get accredited with kills and I think it will even get "promoted". The game doesn't announce this though and it's stats never change).

 

- Zombie

[Kir'jaeden]

Edit-Oh, and the bio-drones BECOME a deadly terror unit? why? what were they to begin with? I'd hardly describe them as cuddly and sweet:P:D

 

 

Before correction, in vanilla TFTD, they tend to waste their TU on useless melee attack with 0% accuracy. After TFTD Extender correction, they could saw both civillians and your soldiers at once! One of great additions of TFTD are the melee weapons. TFTD extender simply enables the aliens to use its melee weapons and abilities. One aquatoid soldier armed with TL could easily turn your favorite Coelacanth to scrap. Close quarters purging becomes survival horror even for experienced squad.

 

and I take it by 'abrupt 2 part...' you mean abort? I very, very very VERY rarely ever, ever abort a mission.

Consider the case: Mixed crew has attacked cruise liner in april 2040.

Make your choise: loose 200-300 rating points or loose entire squad + Triton ?

 

Could do with being able to stun and then drag them off to safety, and if they don't leave a body, living or otherwise, then there is no way to revive them again with a medkit.

 

Civilians leave neither corpses nor bodies as operable objects like XCOM ones. You could not bear them to safety. However they can be paralyzed and medikit affects on them anyway! Consider the strategy: stun them, purge area, revive them by medikit to get positive score!

[NKF]

I'm not about to simply generalize going from the cyberdisc in UFO-enemy unknown to the drones. For one, the cyberdisc is a 4-tile unit, mechanics are going to be somewhat different at least. And the extent of the altered AI in TFTD is pretty large-scale. And compared to the cyberdisc the drone is far smaller. Not sure how that

affects things, if it does at all.

 

A lot of stuff is still re-used. The self destruct mechanic is for the most part identical.

 

Does firing accuracy increase from being caught in the blast radius of an incendiary round?

 

Nope.

 

 

Edit-Oh, and the bio-drones BECOME a deadly terror unit? why? what were they to begin with? I'd hardly describe them as cuddly and sweet:P:D

 

 

Deadlier would be probably be a more apt description.

 

- NKF

[Tsathoggua]

The TFTD extender, can it be applied to a game in progress or does it require the initiation of a new one?

 

Yeah, damn. That would be a challenge. Granted the grenades are not much fun to get hit with, and can make a hell of a mess of your whole squad.

Wouldn't be that arsed about a coelacanth, they are replaceable enough. Displacer tank on the other hand, now that wouldn't be good. But of course the chryssalid principle applies here. Can't kill (or zombify) what you cannot strike. Thermal lance/HTL and worse, vibroblades need to be used at point blank range (personally I'd have made the things have a one-tile range, after all they are long blades.)

 

Odd that they made vibroblades and thermal lances drill-like weapons. TLs are already well known human tech, and they do indeed go through well nigh anything reasonable, if it can burn, chances are a TL will go through it, works under water too afaik. (the basic idea is an steel pipe full of iron, aluminium or magnesium rods, pure oxygen pumped through the tube from a gas bottle, light the end, burn the bejeesis out of whatever you feel like toasting. Would be messy as hell to use that as a weapon....owwwch!

 

They are consumed as they get used, so should require ammunition, but they really are effective. Used for heavy demo work and cutting big buggering great thick metal things up, they go through iron, steel, concrete, body armor wouldn't stand a chance. Bet it would be messy as all hell though to use one as a weapon. The steam explosion of all those aquatoid organs....eww. Gruesome enough below water, above, one would probably be treated to a shower of flash-cooked bug insides raining down on your head.

 

I'd have had stunning using the tazer require being right up close, to make it much more effort, more dangerous, but the rewards are higher, making a live catch, killing stuff is...well...dead is dead is dead, only difference is what one uses to kill stuff. Although a higher score for a close-up kill would be neat, makes sense that a soldier should be commended for a job well done. Not to mention getting the calcinite goo out of one's hair, bet that stuff doesn't come out easily (yeah, I know, I know, I have an odd sense of humor...and long enough hair to well imagine what a pain in the rear end getting slime out of my hair that actually tries to grab hold and hang on! its enough trouble getting the dye out when the bathroom is stained blue.)

 

Just a point though-soldiers don't carry melee weapons do they? its the techs, and possibly ?medics? Haven't run into medics very often, and not in my recent games since I installed TFTD on my laptop, only got that this year, had to replace my last but one PC after the pigs trashed the place. And did it again, damaged my harddrive irrecoverably. Had seen a fair few medics on the version I'd got on there but don't seem to see them all that often now.

 

Soon as my troops get mind probes available to them, then I'll be looking out for them, I make bagging at least two of them almost as high a priority as lobbie commanders, because its the most practical way to ensure bagging the UFOpaedia entries for xarquid and triscene since they turn up so damned rarely.

 

Question-are medics 'dangerous' research items? because one doesn't get the usual tech tree item unlocking from data provided by medics, if one spilled the beans about say, calcinite, then that would disable research into the drill weapons, or worse, potentially locking out MC, or worse still, fuck your game by speaking of deep ones, before researching them manually. Although, I save grilling the medics until I've got everything else bagged and tagged, no harm done with xarquid and triscene as they don't provide any tech tree stuff afaik. Just serve as vicious biological tanks, and in the case of xarquid, nasty, smart, crafty, calculating sneaky friggin' svinya that like to hang about (so to speak, pun intended of course) and snipe with that deadly accurate implanted cannon, or flank the fireteams and come up from behind to pop you right in the behind. If they were not so incredibly rare as to be making trophy hunter's preferred target species and were deployed regularly they would be a certifiable nightmare. Easy enough to take advantage of the weak under-armor/large size of the triscenes but of course that means getting close enough to hit them with something without taking hits. And xarqid, they are just evil. Although at least there is the possibility of taking them out with a DPL shell from afar.

 

I seem to remember the civvies leaving behind bodies in the original UFO. Is the code still present in TFTD, disabled, or was it written out entirely?

Is it possible to reactivate it if present? because it would make sense.

 

Where do I find the modding thread, that someone recommended to me previously somewhere?

[Kir'jaeden]

The TFTD extender, can it be applied to a game in progress or does it require the initiation of a new one?

 

Yeah, damn. That would be a challenge. Granted the grenades are not much fun to get hit with, and can make a hell of a mess of your whole squad.

 

Where do I find the modding thread, that someone recommended to me previously somewhere?

 

https://www.strategycore.co.uk/forums/topic/9867-tftd-extender/

 

Read carefully the thread and UFOpaedeia page.

It seems savegames of vanilla and extender not always compartible. I recomennd start new game.

The product is of reverse engeeniring. It patches executable in RAM, not on HDD. So it generates vast number of crashes. But it still cool.

[Tsathoggua]

Gracias, mucho gusto:)

 

 

Will have to copy out my save directory first. Not a problem.

By vanilla, what do you mean. There seem to be a lot of different versions, editions and patches. Is there a specific version that it must be, or must be patched to before use?

 

Not surprising a reverse-engineered product like that causes quite a lot of crashes. I intend no slight on whoever programmed it, all credit to them, that takes some programming skill to do that, especially without the source code, have to say, he am impressed with whoever did it. Well, better check it out before we make comment on how good it is, but only in the sense of it being unreasonable either to praise or to criticize something which has not yet been appraised. Having done it at all is impressive though. Doing it in RAM means coding it in byte pea soup (ahem...0x86 ASM, I mean) I don't actually code in ASM myself, but done a little checking out of virus code, and its..well...its assembly language, enough said

[Kir'jaeden]

 

By vanilla, what do you mean. There seem to be a lot of different versions, editions and patches. Is there a specific version that it must be, or must be patched to before use?

 

 

vanilla means TFTD for DOS or for Windows without any patches/editors from vendors or fans. Without any tools like XComUtil, another well known tool for Xcom games. TFTDExtender is not compartible with XComUtil.

[Tsathoggua]

Bugger. Don't know if its been used on the install, but xcomutil was packed with it.

[sp1ke]

 

all credit to them, that takes some programming skill to do that, especially without the source code, have to say, he am impressed with whoever did it.

Yes many people working hard over many years to reverse engineer first the data structures, then the code. It's amazing really that the game is so good, it inspired such dedication and effort to iron out some of its flaws.

[Tsathoggua]

Absolutely! there must be very, very very few games under the sun, ever, that people have gone so far as to do that for.

And to do it not once but twice (must be different for UFO, as the memory allocation is different) really says something about the caliber of the game.