X-COM Enforcer vs. UFO: Aftermath

[Pod]

Just remember that X-COM Enforcer had *nothing* to do with X-COM: UFO Defense or any of the other X-COM games. Enforcer was no more an X-COM game then Mario Paint was to a Mario game or Mega Man Soccer was to Mega Man. No one is going to play Mario Golf and say "Gee, golf game is stupid, I'll never play a Mario game again". They would just not play golf games anymore.

 

On the other hand, if I wanted to spit in the face of every X-COM fan, I would do exactly everything UFO: Aftermath did. EVERYTHING! The graphics are revolting , the voice acting is terrible, there's too many guns and all of them are the same, it acts as if it wants to be Armageddon or ID4, and the list goes on and on...

There nothing in this game that isn't bad in one way or a another.

 

I already know about UFO: Aftershock and it's base managements. That doesn't mean the game is good. All the other problems are still going to be there and they might manage to screw the base control to. I see this happen to other game sequels.

 

 

 

But there may still be light... there still be hope...

 

Sid Meier said himself that he might work on X-COM next; He says X-COM's name at the end of the "Developer Interview 1" video:

 

https://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sidpirates/media.html

[Neorapsta]

Its a case of having seen threads like this pop up on multiple boards everywhere claiming which game is more crap or why it is crapper than game XXX, that it starts getting annoying.

 

I don't understand why people try to act like such hardcore fanbois with Enforcer, as its just an attempt to bring X-Com to a new group of people, mostly those who weren't born in the early eighties( the word a 'geberation' might ring a bell).

 

Secondly, don't bash UFO, there is nothing wrong with it, it was never supposed to be an X-com game and never will. The only connection is that they said it was a homage to X-com.

 

I recommend you play a game for what it is, instead of what you want it to be, cos no game will be exactly like you want it to. Also if you bring graphics into question why do you think people are still playing X-com games if graphics were that vitally important, its always gamplay over graphics

[Bomb Bloke]

Aftermath wasn't X-Com. It was based on X-Com. And I doubt anyone thinks less of X-Com because of it.

 

As for Enforcer... Well, that made such a small impression on the gaming community that I doubt anyone decided once and for all that the rest of the series sucked, because of it.

 

Not to say that Enforcer was a terrible game. It just wasn't X-Com, simply X-Com themed.

[Pod]

it was never supposed to be an X-com game and never will. The only connection is that they said it was a homage to X-com.

 

 

 

Jesus Christ, where do you get your information from anyways? "Homage to X-com" you say? HA! Altar simply seized their chance to make more money with Dreamland Chronicles. But they found out that they couldn't use the engine, and try to do the easy way out. Rather then do the honorable thing and finish working on the project, they put there own ideas as if to say that Julian Gollop's ideas are stupid and they're somehow smarter then him. Where does the honor lie in that? I, the honorable Pod, would have ***NEVER*** did this act of debauchery to The Dreamland Chronicles! :angel: They changed everything to accommodate *their* specific, narrow version of what an X-COM game is. Aftermath is more of homage to Abomination then it was to X-COM or even Dreamland Chronicles. As for graphics: remember, even though X-COM is VERY old now, it still had this charming cartoon look, just like Mega Man. If Altar did the same thing to Mega Man's colors, no one in their right mind would stand for it!

 

In any case, I know this as fact:

 

1. Altar would have never made *anything* near to an X-COM game if it wasn't for Dreamland Chronicles.

 

2. Ufo: aftermath is *NOTHING* like Dreamland Chronicles was to be.

[Tyn]

You make these guys out to be evil when you are much mistaken. Do you know how many professional game projects fall on their arse? Dreamland was one of them. So, they took the game, realised they couldn't use the code and made their own game. They even finished it which is an achievement in game programming today. Think of Genesis and Alliance, both games which we can all agree would have been decent at least, but they were never finished. Axes by a BIG company. ALTER ain't exactly ID now are they? So they didn't remake X-Com. So what? They made their own game which in my mind stands as it's own. It is natural to compare every game to the best in the genre but sometimes that isn't applicable. They went out and made a dead project happen their own way. It sold as well. They are even making a sequal, so it can't be all that bad. I've played it and whilst I am not a big fan it is a decent game.

 

As for Enforcer, AFAIK the guys who made it were told to make something happen in 6 months or they were out of the job. They got it done, what more do you expect in 6 months? A lot of games would just about have finished their design document by then, let alone written a whole game.

 

Looking at things rather than what you want or expect them to be means a less hype that the developers simply cannot meet in the cut-throat world of money hungry publishers today. Pretty soon I expect Cormack to get his Ferrari sposored by O2 and to start doing press conferences about Doom 3 going like:

 

"I thought it was a good day, I slipped past two sheets of bug reports, dummied the Publisher Rep, did a one-two with the secretary and smacked the coffee cup right in the top corner of the bin"

 

When you see a programmer wearing a sarong with a Mohawk then run for the hills

[Pod]

Are you saying Master of Orion III saved the Master of Orion's name?

[SpikeTheLobster]

Kind of an odd poll, really: "Which of these two games, neither of which had anything to do with the X-Com license, affected the X-Com name the most?"

 

I vote for Donkey Kong. That absolutely ruined the whole UFO thing for me. Yup.

[Bomb Bloke]

Pod old chap, working on someone else's ideas for a year or so is, well, a pain in the rear. If you HAVE built a game of this size without adding at least one personal touch, then, and only then, are you qualified to make statements like that!

 

Actually... Donkey Kong... yah... never did like that game.

[Neorapsta]

Another thing that people always consider is that Alliance/Genesis/Dreamland were never finished, so somehow they take on somekind of super-mythical status that they would have been the end-all of everything. Thing is you would never have been able to tell, after all for all anyone can know they may have turned out to be absolute rubbish.

 

I mean if you want to bash the X-Com games planned after 99 then Alliance was basically a clone of the old Space-Hulk/ Vengeance of the Blood Angels games. As the interface is almost identical.

 

Genesis, EU in 3d with a few extra creatures thrown in, wow for innovation.

 

Dreamland, an attempt to finish Genesis after it was scrapped(duplicate Pod's reference to Aftermath and Dreamland and insert here except switch for Genesis and Dreamland).

 

Note: I'm acting in as similar a way to Pod as I can, nothing in my post is intentional though it is worth considering.

[Pod]

Pod old chap

 

"Old chap"?! I don't even know you anymore... is an "old chap" someone to kick when he's down? I guess that's what an "old chap" is.

 

working on someone else's ideas for a year or so is, well, a pain in the rear.

 

Ooooooooh I see. So your saying that the easy way is the right way? Gee, I guess they wasted all that money making Lord of the Rings, huh? Maybe they should have did what Altar did, and do whatever the hell they feel like, right? Maybe they should change the name from Lord of the Rings to "The Mysterious Man Who Knocked Me Up ". Because thats what your telling me!

 

If you HAVE built a game of this size without adding at least one personal touch, then, and only then, are you qualified to make statements like that!

 

Hello... are we talking about the same game? Altar did *Not* add anything. Altar did the exact *opposite*. They shamelessly steal some names that they found in the Dreamland Chronicles' Design document. Did you even look at the Dreamland Preview? Something tells me "no" you did not. Don't talk to me until you look at them:

 

https://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/ufoaft...ew_2625035.html

 

 

Bomb Bloke, don't talk as if you know something I don't! I have followed the development of Aftermath for 2 years. I have seen some of the best games and game ideas be swallowed-up by darkness because of some small complications. I have played games that you have never have even knew exist. I came here not to be talk down to, but for sympathy. But if you want to talk down to me then ***don't*** reply in my topics ever again. Because if you do reply, I will tell Pete to delete it. Do you understand?

 

(duplicate Pod's reference to Aftermath and Dreamland and insert here except switch for Genesis and Dreamland)

 

Neorapsta, Stop saying things I never said!!! Just who the hell do you think you are?! I never said I hated X-COM Enforcer; I enjoy playing Laser Squad Nemesis because of the feeling it gives me, and I would *****NEVER***** bash X-Com! But you have not said a word about how good aftermath is! All you ever say is I'm bashing the game. You never even Answered my question ( Are you saying Master of Orion III saved the Master of Orion's name?). It makes it hard to have this conversation with you if your comments don't touch reality at any two contiguous points.

So, please don't reply again.

 

 

 

TO EVERYONE: If anyone wants to reply saying I'm wrong-- DON'T! I not in the best frame of mind to talk about delusions of how great Aftermath really is. If you think the game is great then keep it to yourself. I have been lenient, because some of you are so immature. I will not tolerate this any more.

 

 

Administrator or Moderator: Please lock this topic. I heard enough. thank you.

[Pod]

I'm off to work on something big... Please lock this topic...

[Pete]

Because if you do reply, I will tell Pete to delete it. Do you understand?

I am not anyone's personal bodyguard. Next person to say anything like the above gets a very stern warning.

 

This topic is now being locked for various obvious reasons and if anyone wants a full list of them then feel free to PM me.

 

I would suggest to Pod that you might not hold as much information as myself and Slaughter who have been able to converse with the various people involved in Dreamland and Aftermath and that we have also followed the production very closely and were led at no point to expect Aftermath to resemble Dreamland. There are legal reasons and contractual reasons.

 

Furthermore (and this is my personal opinion here) you appear to be attacking ALTAR because they have not created a game that meets your expectations. The following statement:

Altar simply seized their chance to make more money with Dreamland Chronicles. But they found out that they couldn't use the engine, and try to do the easy way out. Rather then do the honorable thing and finish working on the project, they put there own ideas as if to say that Julian Gollop's ideas are stupid and they're somehow smarter then him. Where does the honor lie in that?

suggests that you think you know more than the rest of us. I haven't seen a single interview to support this nor do my discussions with the Dreamland or Aftermath development teams support this in any way.

 

I don't claim to know everything that Julian and Nick Gollop from Mythos or Martin Klima from ALTAR ever thought or discussed, but I can say that neither group were out to make "the next X-COM". They both had very different ideas and the fact that ALTAR could not in fact use much of what the Gollop's had started on for various legal reasons and licensing reasons led them to take their own path.

 

In parts, Aftermath did suffer during its development cycle as ALTAR had no publisher for much of it and then were finally urged (which I personally interpert as "rushed") to release what they had by their new publisher. It was a gamble to continue development without a publisher willing to release the game and some of us are happy they released it, others not bothered and many expecting it to be either an actual game in the X-COM series or at least very close to X-COM.

 

X-COM is here. Aftermath is here and Aftershock is on the way. Laser Squad Nemesis is also here. You may all comment on why you like/dislike each game, but their will be trouble if anyone feels the need to make a statement in the future about what a company has or has not done without being able to back it up. As the webmaster of this site I have decided that I can ill afford any companies coming in here and reading such remarks as they may be less inclined to converse with us in the future.

 

If you have an opinion about something that you feel very strongly about, please try and find out as much about the topic as you can before posting and express that it is only your own opinion when you are posting.

 

As I said above, feel free to PM me if you have any issues with anything posted in this topic and I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you.