Let's Play X-Com: Terror from the Deep

[silencer_pl]

I demand that first issue of Mag Ion Armour goes to me.

[NKF]

So Doublecheese finally cheeses his way to a victory!

 

Ignore the losses. It was still a Lobsterman slaughter, and you kept your Ion Armor guys alive. I'd say that's a resounding success compared to losing the whole squad to one of the very small subs.

 

Though you classified Hatty as a grenadier, I'm thinking this unfortunate clone did not have a high strength level. Grenadiers rely a lot on strength, as it controls throwing range.

 

Visual range is 20 tiles in full daylight and dawn/dusk. I can't remember what it was at night (or in TFTD's case a Very Deep mission site) right off the top of my head, but I think it was about 9 tiles when peering into darkness. Aliens get 20 regardless of light levels.

 

A point on fatigue, Silencer was quite heavily fatigued as he spent most of his TUs running ahead continuously over several turns. Had he not been killed by a grenade, he might have been done in by his lack of stamina. Not being able to run from danger can be quite hazardous to ones health! To solve this, have the scout wait a few turns without walking (shooting and doing other actions are fine) or move your scout slowly forward and keep plenty of TUs in reserve each turn so that stamina can catch up with energy consumption.

 

Having scouts keep plenty of TUs in reserve also serves a couple of of defensive purposes as well. The big one is to keep their Initiative high. That's the Aquanaut's reaction score modified by the percentage of remaining TUs. It defends against triggering enemy reaction shots during your turn. The other is simply to provide a safety buffer in case you need to make a retreat before ending the turn.

 

- NKF

[Nookrium]

Has anyone seen the "Xcom operatives killed... 14" before? I'm guessing it's just a meaningless bug, hoping anyways. The survivors seem to be alive and well at least.

 

So Doublecheese finally cheeses his way to a victory!

He couldn't manage to toss a grenade over that wall but he sure hurdled it just fine. I guess he couldn't resist the suicide bombing opportunity.

[Zombie]

Though you classified Hatty as a grenadier, I'm thinking this unfortunate clone did not have a high strength level. Grenadiers rely a lot on strength, as it controls throwing range.

 

Though, I'd also argue that high Throwing Accuracy is just as important as Strength for grenadiers. However, TA an be trained really easy by just tossing something 11 times to guarantee an increase.

 

Visual range is 20 tiles in full daylight and dawn/dusk. I can't remember what it was at night (or in TFTD's case a Very Deep mission site) right off the top of my head, but I think it was about 9 tiles when peering into darkness. Aliens get 20 regardless of light levels.

 

Correct, 9 tiles in the dark for X-COM soldiers. It also holds for HWP's/SWP's as well, I would have thought tanks could see further in the dark due to IR technology, but not so.

 

Has anyone seen the "Xcom operatives killed... 14" before? I'm guessing it's just a meaningless bug, hoping anyways. The survivors seem to be alive and well at least.

 

First time I've ever seen that bug, but I normally use the CE version of the game. Doubt it's any more than a display issue, as all seems well in your game.

 

You are doing better each mission Neptune, Lobsterman are a trial by fire really. Keep an eye on soldier spacing though. You got caught with alien pulser attacks again due to low stamina/energy and also poorly spaced soldiers. For the snipers, you could probably get by with elbow-to-elbow spacing as they should be out of sight from the aliens. But for scouts and soldiers holding a line, you really need at least 3 tiles of space between bodies to lessen the chances of pulser attacks.

 

When you spot an alien through an alien sub bulkhead, it's kinda a bug as the map programmer forgot to plug some corners. However, I'd exploit that by planting a soldier to a tile to continue to watch the alien. If it moves, you can focus your attention on a different area.

 

Not sure what I would do with the Lobstermen upstairs on the bridge. Besides grenades, I think it's possible to stand outside the door of the ship and shoot up there, not positive anymore though. I think Shok bombs can be shot up at the floor from below, and GC-HE rounds also. It's slow going, but it should be possible to use GC-Phosphor rounds to roast the Lobstermen in their shell from below. As an added bonus it can't destroy corpses/weapons/clips either.

 

By the way, you are lucky aliens don't know how to use the drills. Drills would do 160% damage to unarmed soldiers, 120% to Aqua armor and 110% to ion.

 

- Zombie

[silencer_pl]

OpenXcom will change the use of Melee I'm watching nightbuild logs

[Nookrium]

Though you classified Hatty as a grenadier, I'm thinking this unfortunate clone did not have a high strength level. Grenadiers rely a lot on strength, as it controls throwing range.

There was a couple of recruits that were borderline, I'm guessing he was one of them. He probably had a good accuracy with an ok strength with the hopes of raising it after a couple missions. Maybe next time

 

Keep an eye on soldier spacing though.

You'd think I would have learned by now, especially after all the blaster bombs I had to deal with in UFO. That was a well placed grenade on his part though, I hope he gets a nice memorial back home.

 

By the way, you are lucky aliens don't know how to use the drills. Drills would do 160% damage to unarmed soldiers, 120% to Aqua armor and 110% to ion.

Do they never use them at all? It has been a drill free game so far.

[Zombie]

Do they never use [drills] at all? It has been a drill free game so far.

 

Correct, the aliens cannot figure out how to use the drills. The aliens will still attempt to try though. That's why that Lobsterman came running up to you. If you have decent armor, the best thing you could do against a drill-wielding alien is to snuggle up to them. They can't use the drill on you, nor will they use one of their 4 Sonic Pulsers either. That leaves you with the Lobsterman HTH attack, which is probably safer.

 

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57551580.jpg

 

- Zombie

[NKF]

Driller enemies make for some of the more dangerous of foes when fighting out in the open as they are just about forced to use their pulsers. Rather docile when up close, so are usually safe to stand next to at the end of the turn. Lobsterman however still have their built in melee attack, so are dangerous even if they can't use the drills.

 

I agree that the thermal shok launcher would have indeed been useful for dealing with those Lobstermen on the upper level. If you can't target the Lobstermen but know exactly where the they are, standing underneath and firing up at the ceiling a few times would clear the area.

 

Actually, I was thinking while watching the video that shooting bits of the railing off with the Sonic Cannons might have assisted to give you better firing or throwing angles.

 

Though, I'd also argue that high Throwing Accuracy is just as important as Strength for grenadiers. However, TA an be trained really easy by just tossing something 11 times to guarantee an increase.

 

Both are, but unlike Firing Accuracy you don't need a great amount of Throwing Accuracy to use grenades effectively. With the area effect nature of grenades, just getting it close enough usually works fine. It's when you start dealing with tricky terrain where good throwing accuracy helps. Like throwing them on to upper level windows or through that rough rocky undersea map with all the overhangs.

 

My reasoning for giving strength the greater importance is that you need to be able to physically convey the grenade to its target to make the accuracy (or lack of) count.

 

- NKF

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

Dude, Neptune. Everyone is full of shit. The only thing you need to know is how to exploit the enemy A.I. Once you know how to take advantage of it, the difficulty of any game is nonsensical.

[Zombie]

Actually, I was thinking while watching the video that shooting bits of the railing off with the Sonic Cannons might have assisted to give you better firing or throwing angles.

 

That could backfire too, giving the aliens better firing angles at your soldiers. Lobstermen have heaps of TU and giving them a shortcut downstairs just reeks of a bad idea, though in Neptune's case the aliens upstairs seemed quite content to stay up there.

 

Both are, but unlike Firing Accuracy you don't need a great amount of Throwing Accuracy to use grenades effectively. With the area effect nature of grenades, just getting it close enough usually works fine. It's when you start dealing with tricky terrain where good throwing accuracy helps. Like throwing them on to upper level windows or through that rough rocky undersea map with all the overhangs.

 

My reasoning for giving strength the greater importance is that you need to be able to physically convey the grenade to its target to make the accuracy (or lack of) count.

 

No argument that grenadiers need high strength first and foremost. I was trying to point out that a solid TA is probably next in line as important. Sure, you can toss that grenade far, but if it lands in a bad spot due to a mis-throw it could mean a soldier's death. If it doesn't land directly under an aliens feet, you'll squander precious damage potential which could mean the alien is alive for another round (nowhere is this especially true than Lobstermen). But TA is a very trainable stat. I guess the other important stat for a grenadier would probably be TU? Can't think of anything else he would need except for some semblance of FA as you can't rely on grenades in every situation.

 

- Zombie

[Space Voyager]

Dude, Neptune. Everyone is full of shit. The only thing you need to know is how to exploit the enemy A.I. Once you know how to take advantage of it, the difficulty of any game is nonsensical.

 

HE HE HE, the pragmatic approach to games, huh? IMO exploits destroy the game utterly. Any game. If you find those and use them, I don't see any point in playing any more.

[Nookrium]

HE HE HE, the pragmatic approach to games, huh? IMO exploits destroy the game utterly. Any game. If you find those and use them, I don't see any point in playing any more.

 

I completely agree, exploits really ruin the game for me. I don't see the fun of it, especially in a strategy game.

 

As to the Grenadier discussion... It seems both stats are pretty important. If I were playing UFO (or had anything other than Lobstermen) I think Strength is probably the more important stat because you don't need to be exact with grenades (that's the idea isn't it), but since lobsters need 3 perfectly placed grenades to take them down, the accuracy is a pretty big deal. Not sure which one I would rate as more important for TftD though, I've always assumed STR is the easier to improve over time.

[Zombie]

As to the Grenadier discussion... It seems both stats are pretty important. If I were playing UFO (or had anything other than Lobstermen) I think Strength is probably the more important stat because you don't need to be exact with grenades (that's the idea isn't it), but since lobsters need 3 perfectly placed grenades to take them down, the accuracy is a pretty big deal. Not sure which one I would rate as more important for TftD though, I've always assumed STR is the easier to improve over time.

 

Actually, TA is easier to train by far. All you need to do is toss something 11 times in a mission to guarantee a 2-6 point increase. Unfortunately, even though TA is a primary stat, an increase there will not trigger an increase in the secondary stats (TU, Health, Stamina, Strength). For a chance to increase the secondaries you need to use your primary stats (shooting, reacting, psi, resisting panic and using the stun rod... melee). Since you don't have MC yet, using the prods are dangerous and resisting panic is tough to accomplish, your best bet is to shoot (and hit) aliens. Reactions is another route but you hardly ever leave your soldiers with any TU at the end of a turn.

 

- Zombie

[NKF]

By the way the game keeps track of experience, hurting an enemy with a grenade technically counts as successfully shooting an enemy, and this does increase all your secondary stats. Through the gaming school of becoming a better swimmer by swinging a sword, you somehow become a better marksman as well. It's questionable game logic at its best (and no doubt fixed in the fan games), but does provide an avenue for inaccurate rookies to catch up or at least keep pace with the better soldiers.

 

- NKF

[Nookrium]

Actually, TA is easier to train by far.

ah, I always assumed strength leveled up pretty regularly based on carrying weight.

 

Reactions is another route but you hardly ever leave your soldiers with any TU at the end of a turn.

--->

[Zombie]

--->

 

A rare exception Neptune. Besides, look how that mission turned out.

 

On second thought, maybe you better keep doing what you are doing. Seems to have turned out so far anyway.

 

- Zombie

[silencer_pl]

Training reactions is only good if the soldier has already good reactions. Soldiers with reactions around 30 mostly will not fire back. Only in rare exceptions when alien has 0 TUs. But I wouldn't bet on that soldier to make reaction shots.

[Nookrium]

A rare exception Neptune. Besides, look how that mission turned out.

 

On second thought, maybe you better keep doing what you are doing. Seems to have turned out so far anyway.

 

- Zombie

 

Lol, Never underestimate my ability to screw up a good strategy

[NKF]

It's not impossible to train low reactions, but it requires that you reserve just about all of your TUs and preferably carry a fast weapon like the Sonic Pistol. That 30 Reactions is not 30 unless your TUs are at 100% after all. For the aliens, it's usually quite easy for their high reactions to be whittled down from let's say a high 70 to something under 30 if they are forced to move towards you or if they fire their weapon.

 

Training in groups also helps as it gives more targets for the aliens to pick from, and if several aquanauts were eligible to take a reaction shot at the same time, they will all get the experience even if the alien dies before they all get a chance to take their turn. A bit more efficient than EU2012's overwatch teams that tend to overkill an alien by getting everyone to fire at the same time.

 

In the end though, Nook, no matter what we armchair commanders say, it's just advice. Play the game how you want to play the game. RIght or wrong, it makes for an entertaining LP.

 

- NKF

[silencer_pl]

A lot of targets = grenade - or worse DPL...

 

EU2012 I also feel it's a bit wrong for everyone to fire, but on the otherside it makes it less OP as many of the players overuse it and just take a spot and spam overwatch until aliens just kill themselves.

[NKF]

Only if you bunch up everyone. A wide broken semi circle works with aquanauts set at varying ranges. With Mag Ion Armor you can even float at different elevations to reduce the impact of explosives considerably. You could even totem-pole 4 aquanauts if you want, though spreading out is still safer.

 

- NKF

[Nookrium]

Apparently the Lobstermen are enjoying their Triton so much they decided to come looking for another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCs98fXID7o

[silencer_pl]

You bastard, you murdered Tengu on purpose Should have made RedArmy pick him up and then kill that bio drone.

[Nookrium]

Yeah, uhhh... I may have panicked and forgot about Tengu

[Nookrium]

Happy New Year!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuBhDsV-SMo