Alien subs not appearing after a while

[Bansheedragon]

@magic9mushroom

Can you tell me how I can shoot holes in buildings using only Dart Guns and Jet Harpoons?

I have been unable to shoot holes in walls using them, and the bigger weapons, such as the gas launcher only works in water.

Using sonic pulsars to blow the roof of catacombs might work, but I would have to research them first to use them.

My own magna blast grenades honestly feels like firecrackers in comparison to the alien ones.

So on very early terror missions I dont see any alternative but to stun civilians.

 

I never expected or wanted the sonic cannon to have auto fire, I was thinking of the pistols and rifles.

In EU the Plasma pistols and rifles had auto fire options, but not the heavy if I remember right.

I had hoped that the sonic pistols and rifles had that option as well, which they dont.

As a result I like the gauss weapons better for ground assaults.

 

As for retaliatory fire fro USOs, I cant attack any USO of size large or above without then firing back and almost destroy my barracudas, sometimes the destroy them as well.

Some of them have started shooting at me almost as soon as I begin my approach.

Right now I dont have anything better than DUP torpedoes, and between sonic weapons and sub construction research it feels as if I'm not getting anywhere.

And I need the better subs as my barracudas are starting to have trouble with intercepting due to USOs going too deep or too fast.

 

@spk1e

Mag Ion armor is not a prereq for sub construction, I think you are confusing it with magnetic navigation.

Zrbite and transmission resolver is required for sub construction research and you need an item in your inventory before finishing both or it bug out and you dont get it.

 

You are right about the Deep one Terrorist interrogation.

You need to hold off interrogating it to you have researched Plastic Aqua Armor to be able to research Ion Armor.

 

@NKF

I had to get a Lobsterman Navigator to research Mag. Navigation, however when looking in my games folder I seem to have both the patched and unpatched versions, and when I launch the game its always run the unpatched one(shortcut on desktop)

I tried renaming both to see if that makes a difference, but I doubt I'll notice it now as I'm past most the bugs in the tech tree.

[sp1ke]

You don't need Mag Ion Armour to research the Sub Construction topic but you need it to actually manufacture a sub.

 

Gas Cannon will work on land and its HE round is powerful enough to wreck a lot of terrain. You can finish the game with this weapon alone.

 

Researching Sonic Pulsers early is a very big multiplier. It's a single topic, no prereqs, short research time, and they are plentiful on the battlefield. Arguably the first topic you should research.

 

You need to get the Ajax off your Barracudas, so they hold back at stand off range with dual DUPs.

 

And believe me, you would not like it if Sonic Blasta Rifles were full auto, because the aliens would be taking you apart right now. ;-)

[Bansheedragon]

The problem with the DUP is the insanely low ammo capacity.

I had subs fire all 6 at a USO and not had it be enough.

And then there is the problem(bug?) when you fir the last set at max range.

Your sub moves to standoff range the moment they are fired, causing them to miss the USO.

So in reality you only get 4 shots, not 6

 

Last time I tried using a gas cannon on land I got an error in the stats field saying it was a underwater weapon only.

 

I'm currently somewhere around May-July the first year, and dont have that much trouble with aliens hitting me.

The aliens miss more than they hit, and I dont see how auto fire(3 shot sequence) would change their ability to hit.

 

Since the sonic weapons dont have auto fire, I cheated a little and used an editor to increase the gauss weapons damage a little bit instead to be on par with sonic weapons.

I didnt make them super OP, only increased the damage output by 20 points, and increased the clip size by 10 shots.

Enough to make a difference, but not so much as to take the fun/challenge out of the game.

[sp1ke]

The problem with the DUP is the insanely low ammo capacity.

I had subs fire all 6 at a USO and not had it be enough.

And then there is the problem(bug?) when you fir the last set at max range.

Your sub moves to standoff range the moment they are fired, causing them to miss the USO.

So in reality you only get 4 shots, not 6

 

Last time I tried using a gas cannon on land I got an error in the stats field saying it was a underwater weapon only.

 

I'm currently somewhere around May-July the first year, and dont have that much trouble with aliens hitting me.

The aliens miss more than they hit, and I dont see how auto fire(3 shot sequence) would change their ability to hit.

 

Since the sonic weapons dont have auto fire, I cheated a little and used an editor to increase the gauss weapons damage a little bit instead to be on par with sonic weapons.

I didnt make them super OP, only increased the damage output by 20 points, and increased the clip size by 10 shots.

Enough to make a difference, but not so much as to take the fun/challenge out of the game.

 

Cheating is, er, cheating. The reason the sonic weapons are more powerful than the Gauss weapons is that the Sonic weapons take more research! What's the point of buffing up the Gauss weapons to be as powerful as the Sonic - and full auto!

 

The situation of expending all 6 DUPs and failing to kill a USO is very rare, unless it's a huge USO. What kind was it? There are bug fixes available for the 'last shot misses' bug, in TFTD Extender and I think in XComUtil. But it's rare even to need 4 DUPs to take down anything Medium sized or less.

 

Are you sure you are not talking about the Hydro-Jet Cannon (Auto Cannon equivalent) or Torpedo Launcher (Rocket Launcher equivalent)? These only work under water. The Gas Cannon works anywhere. It has AP, Incendiary and HE rounds. It's bad ass. :-)

[Bansheedragon]

I still research all weapons, to get the craft versions and base defense versions of them, but for ground assaults I just prefer the gauss ones.

 

You are right most USOs dont take more then 4 DUPs to take down, which is fine as long as you dont miss with one or both of the first two salvos.

I miss a little bit too often for comfort with at least one of the salvos.

 

I tried all 3 weapons, Hydro Jet, Gas Cannon and Torpedo Launcher, I got the same message with all of them, that they only worked under water.

I cant explain it, only describe what happened when trying to use them.

 

And whoever came up with the idea of 2 stage missions should have been fired.

For alien colonies I might be able to accept them, but for terror missions I find them pointless and frustrating.

 

I was doing a terror mission on a shipping lane, and spent half the time running around trying to find the last alien.

When I found it I thought finally its over, only to have a second stage slapped in my face which took about half as long as the previous stage to complete(Didnt have to search for the last alien that time).

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

And whoever came up with the idea of 2 stage missions should have been fired.

 

It sucks indeed. That's why when knowing I'm going to have a two level cruise ship mission I bring explosives. They are your friends! Specially in later games when you have hover plasma tanks. Blow enough shit up and let the tank do the rest.

[Bansheedragon]

It sucks indeed. That's why when knowing I'm going to have a two level cruise ship mission I bring explosives. They are your friends! Specially in later games when you have hover plasma tanks. Blow enough shit up and let the tank do the rest.

 

They make me not want to do alien base and artifact missions as well.

And I usually get bored half way through and quit the game, to proceed later

[sp1ke]

Well yes two stage missions take longer, though you could say that the designers have provided twice as much content and twice as much challenge. I honestly find the two stage terror missions a bit boring too. It feels like too long away from the strategic game. But others love the tactical side.

 

Could you try again with Gas Cannon? It really is supposed to work on land missions, ship missions, any and all missions. If not, you have some kind of bug going on there. It is a useful weapon all through the game. Where you are right now, it would be very handy as a direct fire HE weapon to complement your (ahem!) souped up Gauss weapons. .

 

Sounds like you are getting unlucky with the DUPs. If it is frustrating then develop Sonic Oscillator and your troubles will be over.

 

By the way - part of the designed challenge of TFTD is that your aquanaut weapons keep getting outclassed by the aliens defences. So you develop Gauss weapons to kill the (relatively) soft skinned aliens better than your starting weapons, and hey presto along come Tasoths and Lobstermen. So you need to upgrade to Sonics, and then to Drills, otherwise you fall behind. This is the point. It's meant to be *different* from EU, where you could, if you like, finish the game with Laser weapons (= Gauss). It's not really practical in TFTD. So, ok, you can use a game editor to buff up the Gauss weapons to Sonic levels of power (and Gauss rates of fire), but that's really just eliminating the distinctiveness and challenge of TFTD, in my view anyway. Most of the patching and modding effort goes in to making TFTD *harder*, not easier (and removing bugs).

[Bansheedragon]

I have been trying to develop better weapons for my subs, but have yet to get any craft weapon research.

Only alien weapons I have not researched by now are Vibro blade and Blasta rifle/clip.

I have a number of aliens and alien corpses, but dont see them having any effect on that.

I finished research of both mantas and hammerhead, even built a few mantas.

 

So what am I missing to get the craft and later base defense weapons?

[Zombie]

You need the coveted Lobsterman Commander to get the Leviathan.

 

Suppose it's worth reposting the TFTD research tree:

 

https://old-gamer.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/xcom2techtree.png

 

You'll need to research all the sonic weapons and clips to get the Sonic Oscillator - research that to get sonic defense. You'll need to research Zrbite -> DPL + DPL Bomb -> PWT Cannon + PWT Ammo -> PWT Defense.

 

One of the reasons why I like to research the Sonic Pulser almost immediately is because it's a powerful grenade, plentiful, and very low hanging fruit on the research tree - no need to even research Zrbite to use it.

 

- Zombie

[sp1ke]

I have been trying to develop better weapons for my subs, but have yet to get any craft weapon research.

Only alien weapons I have not researched by now are Vibro blade and Blasta rifle/clip.

I have a number of aliens and alien corpses, but dont see them having any effect on that.

I finished research of both mantas and hammerhead, even built a few mantas.

 

So what am I missing to get the craft and later base defense weapons?

 

See above re Sonic Oscillator and craft PWT.

Did you try mounting Gauss Cannons on Mantas and Hammerheads? No idea how effective that would be. Just wondering.

[NKF]

As Zombie has posted above, all three sonic weapons required for sonic oscillators.

 

This game really does encourage you to move away from dakka weapons to one-shot weapons. There's a good reason to quickly move away from Gauss. The game designers have deliberately made almost all the alien races take reduced damage from Gauss. Only Gillmen (edit: Aquatoids and Zombies too) take full damage, all the other aliens take between 10% to 70% (Lobstermen) less damage from Gauss weapons.

 

Oh and Gas Cannons are awesome indeed. Please do give them a go. HE rounds for the best effect, and you can use the fire-through-ceiling bug to kill aliens on the level above you in the event you destroyed the only set of stairs leading to an upstairs area (fire in stairwell of the island resorts). Being able to fire phosphor rounds above water provides you with a great way to slow cook any aliens hiding in the storage area of a certain train yard long before you send anyone in.

 

The v2 patch might be a great help if you're finding the ship missions to be tedious. The v2.0 patch fixes the hideous bug in v1.0 that causes everything on the ground in the first part of a two parter to go missing. Even stuff in your transport. This allows the following trick to be used.

 

With the patch, if you find you did the first part of the mission really well with minimal losses, you can choose to abandon the second half of the mission right after you have switched to the second map. You will come away with all equipment you've captured so far and any experience from the first part. More importantly, the victory points from the first half should just about cancel out most of or at least minimise the loss of the points from the second. Or you could just start playing the second part and kill some aliens, then escape once it starts getting tedious.

 

It could be considered cheating but consider you'll have very little, or even a small negative score, then it's not too bad a tradeoff to alleviate the tedium. Obviously this trick must not be used for Artefact Site missions, the penalty for aborting that is quite hefty.

 

- NKF

[Bansheedragon]

OK I downloaded the patches 2.0 and 2.1, but I'm confused as to how to I apply them.

[sp1ke]

Do the patches have a readme.txt or similar instructions file associated with them, eg inside the Zip archive or other archive?

 

As you are not playing as a "purist" (who does?) and encountering various common frustrations, maybe you would benefit from using TFTD Extender? See https://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=TFTDextender

 

It fixes almost all known bugs and can optionally fix most annoyances. It can even buff the Gauss damage for you. ;-)

 

I use it now whenever I play TFTD, and I use UFO Extender whenever I play UFO.

 

Also, have you looked through the TFTD UFOPaedia online? It has the answers to many of your questions, and many more.

 

https://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=TFTD

[Bansheedragon]

Only 1 readme file and it only explains the fixes/changes, but not how to apply the patch.

There seems to be 2 different versions, one called TFTDCD and one called TFTDHD.

 

The TFTD Extender only works with the windows version of the game, the one I have are the Dos version(runs in dosbox).

[sp1ke]

That will be one version to run from CD and one version to run from Hard Drive (HD) - a new concept back then!

 

I would make a new copy of TFTD on your hard drive, from your original installer, in a new location, then unpack the files from the patch into the TFD folder of the new location. That's literally a guess. Did you try Googling for installation instructions?

[magic9mushroom]

BTW, don't bother using Jet Harpoons. Gas Cannon on every soldier is my standard loadout in TFTD. It's one of the few weapons to be significantly buffed, and you need the power for Gill Men (which are Snakemen, except they show up in the first month). Two choices for research, either get the Particle Disturbance Sensor and then grab sonic weaponry, or get Gauss and postpone sonic weaponry.

 

And yeah it takes a while to get through the tech tree. Are you using 100+ scientists?

[Bansheedragon]

That will be one version to run from CD and one version to run from Hard Drive (HD) - a new concept back then!

 

I would make a new copy of TFTD on your hard drive, from your original installer, in a new location, then unpack the files from the patch into the TFD folder of the new location. That's literally a guess. Did you try Googling for installation instructions?

 

I forgot to make a backup of the folder, but its quick to download and reinstall so not a big issue.

 

I tried doing 2 things

First I installed dosbox and tried running the executable files from there, since they are not Windows files.

The Update.exe only displays the infor contained in the readme.1st file.

Then I tried running the TFTDHD and TFTD CD files, those two inflated the files, thats the word that was used.

Since that didnt seem to have any effect, I went into the TFTDCD folder and simply copy/pasted the files and folders there to my TFTD game folder.

 

Now its time to see if it had any effect.

 

 

BTW, don't bother using Jet Harpoons. Gas Cannon on every soldier is my standard loadout in TFTD. It's one of the few weapons to be significantly buffed, and you need the power for Gill Men (which are Snakemen, except they show up in the first month). Two choices for research, either get the Particle Disturbance Sensor and then grab sonic weaponry, or get Gauss and postpone sonic weaponry.

 

And yeah it takes a while to get through the tech tree. Are you using 100+ scientists?

 

So far I have not had enough living space to support more than 60 scientists, I need space for my soldiers as well and there are limits to how many buildings I can have in my base.

I always leave space in my bases to build 1 of each base defense, including the grav shield/bombardment defense.

I also keep 2 bases, where one is dedicated to research and the other to production.

In addition as the game progress I build some detection/intercept bases in other locations as suggested by others.

 

The aliens I had most trouble with was the lobstermen, the Gil Men didnt pose that much of a threat to me.

The one thing I always try to research first are the medi-kits, they are invaluable.

I never actually used the Particle Disturbance Sensor have I underestimated them?

 

As for the Gas Cannon, I have a question regarding that.

As you know it has 3 types of ammo, the one thing I never could get to work was the unload option.

 

I know where to find the button for unloading ammo, but I never could seem to get it to work.

So how do I unload ammo from a weapons, how does that button work?

 

Last I plan to start a new game as I felt I lost control and oversight of the last one.

[sp1ke]

I think starting a new game is a great idea.

 

To use the Unload button, you drag a loaded weapon onto it, making sure the soldier/aquanaut has a free hand to receive the clip.

 

Base defences are, arguably, useless. Because base defence missions (usually) are great fun and a great source of loot. But whether you have base defences or not, you need to be able to operate 100 scientists, at least, certainly in your designated Research base. Also, running 60 scientists is really inefficient, since you need 2 Labs, which could support up to 100 scientists.

 

The Particle Disturbance Sensor can be useful (I remember a time when I was having my ass handed to me on a Liner mission, and I hid inside the sub until a Lobsterman was right outside, triangulated by PDS, and popped him with everything I had. I nearly won that mission!). However its main purpose is to put your Engineers (Techs, whatever) to work early, making money. It is a profitable item to manufacture and the cheapest in terms of research. The Medi Kit has similar? profitability, more combat use (as you discovered!), but take (I think) more Research effort.

 

Using PDS can be really fun when you are badly outclassed and sh1t scared. You can pretend you are in the movie Aliens. 8-)

 

So thinking about it, 100 Scientists take up 2 Living Quarters and 2 Labs. That's 4 squares. Surely a dedicated Research base can afford at least 4 squares dedicated to Research? A tiny intercept station has 4 squares dedicated to intercepting (the hanger, not including the Stores that are multi purpose).

[Bansheedragon]

I usually have my research in my primary base, and the manufacturing in the secondary.

I keep it that way in case of USO retaliation, as I will have soldiers to defend the base, should the base defenses fail to take out the USO.

 

I usually have a few combined detection/intercept bases scattered around to deal with USO in other areas.

These bases I usually equip with 2 subs for 3 reasons.

1. A USO is detected while a sub is refueling/rearming means I have the other to take care of it.

2. A large USO shows up and I might need more than 1 to take it out

3. If more then 1 USO shows up, I can intercept more than just the one.

[sp1ke]

I usually have a few combined detection/intercept bases scattered around to deal with USO in other areas.

These bases I usually equip with 2 subs for 3 reasons.

1. A USO is detected while a sub is refueling/rearming means I have the other to take care of it.

2. A large USO shows up and I might need more than 1 to take it out

3. If more then 1 USO shows up, I can intercept more than just the one.

I like your reasoning and I do the same. If money is very tight though, I will instead have single-sub intercept bases positioned close enough so that they can mutually support each other. Remembering that bases are much cheaper to run (and not much more to acquire) than rented subs.

[sp1ke]

I usually have my research in my primary base, and the manufacturing in the secondary.

I keep it that way in case of USO retaliation, as I will have soldiers to defend the base, should the base defenses fail to take out the USO.

I think by default most people end up with their primary base as their primary research base, unless they go out of their way to create a different main research base. In your case, because you have other constraints on facilities in your primary base, that's a strong case for moving primary research out to a specialised base. Research is peculiar in that you can't really it pool it across bases in the way you can with most other activities. So if you are going to take that approach you might want to start building your research base almost from the outset. All it needs is Labs, living quarters, stores and alien containment. If it has no hangar and you never launch any attacks from there, the odds of having to do base defence against an Alien Retaliation mission are very low (maybe zero, but certainly very low).

 

I think most people believe that, since perfect base defence by base defence weapons is almost impossible to achieve (and hugely expensive), a better base defense strategy is to make sure you have enough troops and infantry weapons (including tanks!) in place to successfully turn the tables on an alien assault - garnering experience and loot in the process.

 

However, if you do want base defences, there is no reason to have one of each type. Each new type effectively makes the earlier types obsolete. You can have multiple instances of the same type of base defence in the same base, and (unlike with radars in the unmodified game) their defensive effects are cumulative. So you should be upgrading base defences, and possibly reducing the number of squares committed to base defence, as your tech improves.

 

To upgrade, you can either destroy the base defence and then build a new one, or, even better, (I believe) you can upgrade in place by building a new base defence on the same square as an existing one.

[Bansheedragon]

I dont remember which game it was in, but I think it was EU.

I had 3 tiles of the strongest available base defenses, plasma beams at the time, I had expected each of them to fire in sequence like if I have one of each type.

But from what I cold see only one of them fired at a UFO trying to attack a base of mine, not all 3.

I had a grav shield as well allowing them to fire again, and they hit both times, and with 3 plasma beam defenses I would have expected that to be enough to take out the UFO.

 

As a result I have one of each base defense, as then I know I have the firepower to destroy an incoming UFO/USO when all weapons hit.

[sp1ke]

Yeah I never use it myself so I don't know for sure. But AFAIK if you do shoot down the battleship they just send another and it doesn't stop until you defeat them in your base. AFAIK. And partial hits on the battleship don't reduce their assault force strength. And you can never guarantee successful base defence, so you always need to be prepared for a base defence tactical mission. Unless you are willing to abandon the base, in which case why bother building base defences. And if you need to prepare for a tactical defence, why bother with base defence weapons?

 

For me, I only defend bases that will launch combat missions, and thereby incur risk of Retaliation. These I give an adequate self defence force that is proportionate to my desire to not lose that base. The rest I defend lightly, or often not at all.

 

Here's what UFOPaedia says about Battleships on XCOM Base Assault missions:

 

You can bring down these battleships with sufficient Base Defense Measures, but the game is programmed to just send another on the exact same mission. (To be precise, the game does not check/remove the "X-COM Base detected, send in the battleship" flag). It has been proven that about 6 or 7 Fusion Ball Defences with Grav Shield (total defensive strength 6000) can hold off incoming battleships (hull strength 3000) indefinitely, but since you get no bonus for blowing a battleship out of the sky, not even to monthly score, it is better to let them land eventually and just run the mission. Once you've run the mission, win or lose, the attacks stop coming. The aliens are content that they've done sufficient damage.

Blowing the battleship out of the sky with Aircraft Interception ALSO seems to uncheck the Battleship assault flag, so keep that in mind.

 

[Bansheedragon]

Interesting.

What the point of having the base defense structures in the game in the first place if they dont have any real purpose anyway?

And if it intentional programming, well I dont have the words to express what I think about that other than that its plain stupid.

 

On a side note, I wish there were more games like these (TFTD and EU).

There are the newer UFO games(not counting the Fraxis one) and Xenonauts, but they still feel as if they are missing something.