Alien subs not appearing after a while

[NKF]

A bit of the blame can be placed on a touch of the old randomness that keeps the game fresh, as well as a massive headache. It's really just the games way of forcing you to start expanding or put more effort in scouting.

 

The tutorial in the old manual may have been useful for the old game, but since the game I play is a newer version with some updates it dont seem like the old tutorial is of much use.

 

To be fair, the game manual has been about the same right up to the final official release of the game, and it never really discussed the merits of why the sea of Japan was chosen. But it is still one of the more favourable locations to start as it does provide reasonable access to a handful of decent paying countries.

 

- NKF

[Bansheedragon]

I seem to have gotten a game now where things go reasonably well.

I have a base in Indian Ocean and had a few alien USOs.

I also started with a small detection/intercept base in the Pacific close to the Caribbean which I plan t build out to a full base eventually

The last few games I played I looked at the alien activity graphs, and have noticed that in every one of them there was allot of activity around Sea of Japan and South China Sea in the first month, so next time I'll try set up a base around there.

 

I had another problem I wanted to ask about, but found the solution on my own.

During terror missions, I noticed that civilians sometimes has a tendency to block entrances to areas where aliens are sometimes hiding, as if they are somehow protecting the aliens.

They can stand there for several turns and not move, which has quite often lead to me being unable to complete the mission unless I shoot the civilian, which will cost me points in the end score.

The solution was really simple, I just bring along a few Thermal tazers and stun the civilians instead, that way I can get to the aliens without harming the civilians.

[sp1ke]

In the Atlantic outside the Straits of Gibraltar works for me as a starting base location - I get Mediterranean missions as well as Atlantic ones.

 

I had another problem I wanted to ask about, but found the solution on my own.

During terror missions, I noticed that civilians sometimes has a tendency to block entrances to areas where aliens are sometimes hiding, as if they are somehow protecting the aliens.

They can stand there for several turns and not move, which has quite often lead to me being unable to complete the mission unless I shoot the civilian, which will cost me points in the end score.

The solution was really simple, I just bring along a few Thermal tazers and stun the civilians instead, that way I can get to the aliens without harming the civilians.

 

Good tactic. Just bear in mind that, due to a bug, the stunned civilians will wake up as hostile.

 

For base placement strategies, one approach I often like to use is to halve the globe then quarter it. That is, your second base being on the opposite side of the globe, then two listening (and later intercept) outposts half way between these bases on the turnwise and anti-turn-wise sides. Use up the rest of the base slots as you see fit.

 

- NKF

 

I like to do that too. I do it in 3D, so first I halve, then quarter, the globe at the equator, then I place two bases near the poles. It's not even optimal, I just love the symmetry of it. :-)

[NKF]

 

The solution was really simple, I just bring along a few Thermal tazers and stun the civilians instead, that way I can get to the aliens without harming the civilians.

 

I don't remember if they changed the rules in TFTD, but there's an unusual side effect attached to this solution. Not a particularly bad one, but you don't gain that much from it either. A stunned civilian will not award you their victory points at the end of the mission. On the other hand, if they were to later get killed (say, after waking up as an alien), you won't get the -50 penalty either.

 

- NKF

[Bansheedragon]

Good tactic. Just bear in mind that, due to a bug, the stunned civilians will wake up as hostile.

 

I don't remember if they changed the rules in TFTD, but there's an unusual side effect attached to this solution. Not a particularly bad one, but you don't gain that much from it either. A stunned civilian will not award you their victory points at the end of the mission. On the other hand, if they were to later get killed (say, after waking up as an alien), you won't get the -50 penalty either.

 

I never had them wake up as hostiles before, I never had them wake up at all actually, but I'll keep it in mind.

I can just wait until I have explored all other possible locations, that way its most likely the last alien and they will not wake up before the end of the mission.

I may not get the victory points, but at least I dont get the penalty for killing them.

I would rather do without the victory points than get the penalty.

 

 

I had a couple missions in the current game that was a bit unusual.

 

The very first USO I shot down, when I got to the site with my troops, I got a message saying all aliens dies in the crash so the mission was auto-completed.

For a coupe moments I was a bit confused and though it an error message of some sort.

Never had that happen before.

 

The second USO I shot down, I had some messages pop up just as the mission started, between the equip screen and the start of your first turn.

I had two messages pop up of the kind you get during the aliens turn or start of your own, about soldiers going unconscious or dying.

One said .... had become unconscious the other said ... had dies from a fatal wound, the thing is that these messages had no soldier names in them, just the message.

Next turn I had a message pop up again saying... has dies from a fatal wound, again with no soldier name, as if the soldiers dying had no names.

During that mission I lost 2 soldiers, but the two non-existent soldiers was added to the score as losses, even though I only lost 2.

When I got back to base I had to replace a total of 4 soldiers, but since 2 of them was wounded that means I lost 2 soldiers that never existed which affected my score, otherwise I should have replaced 6 soldiers, not 4

[Bomb Bloke]

The very first USO I shot down, when I got to the site with my troops, I got a message saying all aliens dies in the crash so the mission was auto-completed.

For a coupe moments I was a bit confused and though it an error message of some sort.

Never had that happen before.

 

Although I've never seen it happen in UFO:EU, it's fairly common in TFTD.

 

I can't say I've ever heard of your second thing before, though.

[sp1ke]

Heh heh heh. Sometimes the only way to protect the broader population is for all the civilians on site to die in a hail of X-COM incendiaries, explosives, and uncontrolled weapon fire. :-) After all, you still come out ahead on Victory Points.

 

Are you sure you're not using a hacked or patched copy of TFTD?

[magic9mushroom]

The alien AI decision making doesn't change with difficulty level. The largest jump in difficulty after beginner level is that all aliens will have full armor and health starting with experienced level. After that, they only get better firing, throwing, and psi/MC skill with each level. Also, the number of aliens spawned in each mission increases with difficulty.

 

You're thinking of UFO.

 

All of the following alien stats increase at every step in difficulty in TFTD: TU, reactions, firing accuracy (which increases EXTREMELY rapidly), M.C. Strength/Skill, and armour (also stamina, strength and melee base accuracy but nobody cares).

[sp1ke]

Stamina is marginally relevant I think, as Aliens do sometimes run out of energy and are unable to move?

[Bansheedragon]

Heh heh heh. Sometimes the only way to protect the broader population is for all the civilians on site to die in a hail of X-COM incendiaries, explosives, and uncontrolled weapon fire. :-) After all, you still come out ahead on Victory Points.

 

Are you sure you're not using a hacked or patched copy of TFTD?

 

Vanilla TFTD, purchased at Gamersgate.

I can have a soldier standing waiting for a civilian to move, only to have then just stand there.

For all I know an alien could have MCed them and use them to block the entrance, a human shield so to speak.

[sp1ke]

Vanilla TFTD, purchased at Gamersgate.

I can have a soldier standing waiting for a civilian to move, only to have then just stand there.

For all I know an alien could have MCed them and use them to block the entrance, a human shield so to speak.

Stun 'em on sight. It's for their own safety. ;-)

[Bansheedragon]

Stun 'em on sight. It's for their own safety. ;-)

 

And thats exactly what I do.

Before I figured that out I used to shoot them, costing me victory points, which sometimes could mean the difference between a good and a bad monthly report.

I noticed that the score is much more difficult to keep positive here than in EU, where my best score was over 6700 one month.

[Tycho]

In EU, stunned civilians are MIA and you don't get points for them at the end even if they "survived". Still it's better than taking a penalty.

[Bomb Bloke]

Back in the day, it was common practise to release expansion packs which basically consisted of repackaging the same game but tweaking it ever so slightly and making it much, much harder. The only thing that differentiates TFTD between a sequel and an expansion pack is the new art.

 

Aliens, especially Lobstermen, do indeed commonly run out of stamina in TFTD. Not sure why.

[NKF]

I think one of the main reasons Lobstermen wear themselves out is because they use stamina just to turn. You've probably observed how the aliens have moments where they use up their TUs by standing still and turn wildly. The stamina recharge for the Lobsterman isn't high enough to keep up with their usage of it, so they end up wearing themselves down in a prolonged battle.

 

- NKF

[magic9mushroom]

Stamina is marginally relevant I think, as Aliens do sometimes run out of energy and are unable to move?

 

I guess.

 

I had another problem I wanted to ask about, but found the solution on my own.

During terror missions, I noticed that civilians sometimes has a tendency to block entrances to areas where aliens are sometimes hiding, as if they are somehow protecting the aliens.

They can stand there for several turns and not move, which has quite often lead to me being unable to complete the mission unless I shoot the civilian, which will cost me points in the end score.

The solution was really simple, I just bring along a few Thermal tazers and stun the civilians instead, that way I can get to the aliens without harming the civilians.

Vanilla TFTD, purchased at Gamersgate.

I can have a soldier standing waiting for a civilian to move, only to have then just stand there.

For all I know an alien could have MCed them and use them to block the entrance, a human shield so to speak.

 

Easier way: Make your own door. Urban structures aren't very resilient (with a couple of exceptions); shoot the walls out. You don't get penalised for property damage.

[Bansheedragon]

I guess.

 

 

 

 

Easier way: Make your own door. Urban structures aren't very resilient (with a couple of exceptions); shoot the walls out. You don't get penalised for property damage.

 

That works fine for regular structures.

But it dont work for underground areas or towers.

Some maps have some kind of subterranean areas, shooting my way in there dont work.

Other maps have towers, where civilians block the only way up, I cant really shoot me a new staircase.

 

The research bugs in this game makes for some really frustrating research.

I have to constantly make sure I dont research the wrong items, so I dont research myself into a dead end.

Add to that a less then straight forward research progression and I feel as if I'm constantly lagging behind in research.

I have come to a point where larger USOs are getting more frequent and I only have the Barracudas with the Ajax and DUP torpedoes.

And those larger USOs can sometimes 1-2 shot my barracudas.

[sp1ke]

Yeah. You can research Sonic Oscillators but your subs often can't intercept at all so what's the use of better weapons. Unfortunately the research track for me anyway is tediously predictable. You have to major on Armour -> Subs in order to avoid losing the interception game by May. And there isn't even a trade off because Armour helps you on Assaults significantly. So an optimum path through Research - boring, unbalanced and dumb. :-(

[Bansheedragon]

I dont remember what they are called in this game, but they are the equivalent of the aliens Blasta Launchers from EU.

I was Assaulting a large landed USO, all my troops was wearing Ion armor.

I had one of my troops enter the USO, only to get shot on by this weapon just as he got inside the USO.

Now the funny thing is my trooper was almost completely unaffected, had some blue bar on the HP bar that I'm not sure what means but no HP lost, while the alien who fired the shot stood too close to the blast and killed itself.

 

I have to say the Ion armors of TFTD seems allot more powerful than the Power armors of EU, which always felt like paper armor to me.

I had aliens fire 3-4 shots at my trooper and not be affected, in EU I lost troops after 2 shots even with the armor.

 

I'm somewhere between 6 to 9 months into the game, and just started researching the transmission resolver, which is the last thing I need before I can start researching sub construction.

So I'm 3-6 months from having my first new sub, after which I need to get better weapons.

 

The optimal research path might be unbalanced and dumb, but its very frustrating when you have to take care not to research things that are required for other things, which would prevent you from getting those things if you did that research before something else.

[Bomb Bloke]

There's the Disruptor Pulse Launcher, which is pretty much a blaster launcher. But I'm thinking maybe you got shot with a Thermal Shok Launcher, which is basically the stun bomb launcher: the shading you saw on your health bar was the amount of stun damage you took. If the interior of the craft didn't get vaporised, it was probably the stun gun.

 

I feel it's generally a better idea to get new craft weapons before new craft. You can order your ships to fire from their maximum range, and since that happens to be further than the alien's, that means you don't need to worry so much about retaliatory fire.

[Bansheedragon]

Your probably right about the stun launcher, the interior was unaffected by the blast.

I'm working hard to research both weapons and subs, but its taking more time than I like.

Even my troops still cant use alien weapons, they are still using gauss weapons.

 

The one thing I really dislike about the alien weapons in TFTD is their complete lack of auto fire.

More often then not aliens take more then 1 hit to take down, or shots miss and you might not have enough TUs for another shot.

It may seems like a waste of ammo, but I find it quite useful, and I can afford doing it.

[magic9mushroom]

That works fine for regular structures.

But it dont work for underground areas or towers.

Some maps have some kind of subterranean areas, shooting my way in there dont work.

Other maps have towers, where civilians block the only way up, I cant really shoot me a new staircase.

 

Yeah, but you can shoot out the walls of the tower to get to the aliens. You don't need to get your aquanauts up the tower.

 

The catacombs on islands do suck though, agreed. I think you can blow up the roof with Sonic Pulsers and get in that way, though.

 

The research bugs in this game makes for some really frustrating research.

I have to constantly make sure I dont research the wrong items, so I dont research myself into a dead end.

Add to that a less then straight forward research progression and I feel as if I'm constantly lagging behind in research.

 

Avoiding bugs is pretty easy. Don't research Zrbite until you've gotten both an Alien Sub Construction item (not hard, IIRC Cruisers carry one and they're the most common sub in the game) and a DPL. Don't research M.C. Labs until you've gotten an M.C. Reader. Bam, you're done. That's all the bug avoidance you need.

 

I have come to a point where larger USOs are getting more frequent and I only have the Barracudas with the Ajax and DUP torpedoes.

And those larger USOs can sometimes 1-2 shot my barracudas.

 

Don't use AJAX torpedoes. And don't use DUP torpedoes on Battleships/Dreadnaughts. Hooray, now you don't have to worry about return fire.

 

Yeah. You can research Sonic Oscillators but your subs often can't intercept at all so what's the use of better weapons. Unfortunately the research track for me anyway is tediously predictable. You have to major on Armour -> Subs in order to avoid losing the interception game by May. And there isn't even a trade off because Armour helps you on Assaults significantly. So an optimum path through Research - boring, unbalanced and dumb. :-(

 

Eh, not that much. Get Transmission Resolvers and Sonic Oscillators and the interception game is over; new subs are barely relevant except against Dreadnaughts. Alien subs slow down when they near their targets; the Barracuda doesn't need them in its sights for long with the absurd power of the Sonic Oscillator at its disposal. Neither of those have anything to do with Armour (well, the Transmission Resolver needs Magnetic Navigation but that's it). Drills significantly improve your odds vs. Lobster Men, who show up fairly early; M.C. Disrupters help as well. Gauss Cannons help enormously with your expansion to new bases by providing funds. DPLs are kinda lower priority, but everything else is pretty important. I wouldn't say there's a One True Path through research.

 

I have to say the Ion armors of TFTD seems allot more powerful than the Power armors of EU, which always felt like paper armor to me.

I had aliens fire 3-4 shots at my trooper and not be affected, in EU I lost troops after 2 shots even with the armor.

 

It's not just a matter of the armour having more defense points. The things which make armour a lot better in TFTD are:

 

1) Ion Armour has a 10% Sonic resistance. Because resistances apply before armour is subtracted, this is an absolutely enormous advantage.

2) TFTD weapons have less variable damage. In EU, weapons roll evenly from 0 damage to 2x listed damage. In TFTD, the roll is more centered (it rolls twice from 0 to listed damage and adds them together). This makes it less likely for weapons to penetrate armour with luck that could take an average hit comfortably.

 

That said, armour ends up being almost equally useless in the late-game. Once September rolls around, the aliens start deploying Disrupter Pulse Launchers as standard weaponry. You are not taking a hit from those, even with Magnetic Ion Armour. Tentaculats don't care about MIA either, and they infest the lategame colony assault and artefact site missions.

 

The optimal research path might be unbalanced and dumb, but its very frustrating when you have to take care not to research things that are required for other things, which would prevent you from getting those things if you did that research before something else.

 

As I said, there are in fact only 2 pieces of research you need to delay to avoid all the bugs.

 

1) Don't research Zrbite until you have an Alien Sub Construction item (these are quite common) as well as a Disrupter Pulse Launcher (these are less common). It might hold up research on new submarines somewhat while you're waiting for a DPL, but that's it.

 

2) Don't research M.C. Labs until you have an M.C. Reader in your possession. You are likely to have one before you research a live terrorist anyway, so this isn't a big deal at all.

 

Do those, and you won't have any bugs in the research tree.

 

The one thing I really dislike about the alien weapons in TFTD is their complete lack of auto fire.

More often then not aliens take more then 1 hit to take down, or shots miss and you might not have enough TUs for another shot.

It may seems like a waste of ammo, but I find it quite useful, and I can afford doing it.

 

TFTD would probably be much harder if the aliens could use Sonic Cannons on automatic.

 

Aquatoids and Gill Men should be falling in 1 hit to most sonic weaponry. Tasoths you might need a Sonic Cannon for or 2 Sonic Pistol shots (still only 60% TU), and Lobster Men are best dealt with by drills (which use almost no TU).

 

Use spotter/sniper tactics; the Sonic Cannon and Magnetic Ion Armour come in really handy here since you can get a 100% accuracy sniper up on the top level of the map with a clear shot at everything.

[sp1ke]

I feel it's generally a better idea to get new craft weapons before new craft. You can order your ships to fire from their maximum range, and since that happens to be further than the alien's, that means you don't need to worry so much about retaliatory fire.

I have tried that approach a few times in TFTD, with the same reasoning. A Barracuda with even a single Sonic Oscillator, let alone dual, can make mincemeat out of much larger USOs. The problem I found was that getting the intercepts on the USOs becomes nigh on impossible. They dive too deep or run too fast. Hence now I always go the Armour tech ->Sub tech route every time, which is boring for me as I don't even like aarmour, but when I've invested so much Research in it, I have to use it.

 

Also think getting MC in TFTD is way too easy.

[sp1ke]

Magic9Mushroom, I mostly agree, but see my points about USOs avoiding interception. Maybe I am just not good enough at intercepting with Barracudas. Mine run out of fuel before the tracked USO slows down, even when I use tag teams of Barracudas to track. There's the bug that you can't park a Barracuda over a touched down USO and engage it when it takes off even. But maybe I should try again.

 

When I say Armour tech -> Sub tech, Mag Ion Armour is a pre req for new subs, so you do have to research Armour if you want subs. What did you mean?

 

I agree Ajax torpedoes are worthless. You can virtually win the game with DUPs, without ever developing a sub weapon (except for profit), though Sonic Oscillators make it easy. Too easy. The whole craft weapon system in both games needs rebalancing as there is a clear One True Path for craft weapons in both. I wrote some rebalance approaches on my UFOPaedia page.

 

 

 

Isn't there one more key bug avoidance action, which is to hold off interrogating your Deep One terrorist?

[NKF]

Damage rolls in TFTD use the area-effect roll, being 50% - 150%.

 

The pocket edition of the bug avoidance guide is basically:

 

Ion Beam Accelerator & Plastic Aqua Armour before Live Deep One

Alien Sub Construction item in stores before completion of Transmission Resolver + Zrbite

M.C. Reader in stores before completion of M.C.-Lab (alternately get the tftd v2.1 update from the files section to remove this)

 

DPLs have a safeguard and will automatically become available after the next research topic you complete if you did not have any when researching Zrbite.

 

Also, if you don't get Magnetic Navigation on the research list as soon as you get one, you'll have the unpatched copy of the game that requires you capture a Lobsterman Navigator to get it. You may want to consider getting the v2 patch.

 

- NKF