Celatid attack damage.

[silencer_pl]

I have a question. I remember Celatid and Silacoid being useless in the original. However in OpenXcom I'm seeing and experiencing 1 shot kill through Power Armour from those dudes. Was it so dangerous in the original too?

 

Ufopaedia doesn't show how much resistant Power Suits are to acid / venom attacks. It only says it does 0.4 damage to tanks.

[Hobbes]

I have a question. I remember Celatid and Silacoid being useless in the original. However in OpenXcom I'm seeing and experiencing 1 shot kill through Power Armour from those dudes. Was it so dangerous in the original too?

 

Ufopaedia doesn't show how much resistant Power Suits are to acid / venom attacks. It only says it does 0.4 damage to tanks.

 

I had that same question about the Celatids on OpenXCom but I've just checked and their acid attack is listed at 140 (higher than Heavy Plasma!) and the damage modifier for Power Suits and acid is 1.0.

[silencer_pl]

That's what Ufopaedia states too 140 damage. But I really recall them being not that effective in the past. Hmm.

[Hobbes]

That's what Ufopaedia states too 140 damage. But I really recall them being not that effective in the past. Hmm.

 

I also share your recollection that Celatids were not so effective in the original game. But to me It's either a false memory - I've had my share of those with the original game after getting back to playing it after long periods - or there's something else into play, possibly the AI, that is making them more effective.

[Tycho]

I suspect that there was a logical error in their attack in the original that had them miss a lot more at longer ranges. They always seemed to hit often at a very close range but hardly at all when at the extreme range of their attack. I think it had to do with how the game calculated the arc of their spit. OXC probably has a different formula making them hit more often.

[silencer_pl]

You are probably right. Same would go for the Deep Ones as they had to spit multiple times and strangely most wounds where in the legs.

[Zombie]

I think it had to do with how the game calculated the arc of their spit. OXC probably has a different formula making them hit more often.

 

This.

 

Celatids were really deadly in the original game if you were up close. I used to do multiple smash-and-grabs on a Muton base for the loot, Elerium and points on the PSX version. Before I researched Small Launchers, I used Stun Rods to incapacitate a Muton then haul him upstairs and revive him so I could loot at my own pace. One time I stunned a Celatid and was hauling the thing back to the starting area because I needed a live one for research. The thing happened to revive in my backpack and was invisible the next round (just the [1] alien sighted indicator) and the darn thing killed the soldier in a Flying suit with no issues. Get about 10 tiles away though and the Celatid was pretty harmless.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

Indeed, they had trouble firing at all if there was a ceiling directly over them, but if they hit you you'd certainly feel the pain. Using MC on them turned their weapon into a direct shot for the duration, making it even more lethal. Their ability to take damage is minimal, however, and I've got a hunch they can't fire reaction shots, so it's rare you'll see them firing at you in the first place...

 

Silacoids deal a fair bit of damage as well, but it's often not enough to outright kill a soldier and they're too slow to reliably get in range of your troops before being shot to pieces. It's also easy to know when you're getting close to one due to the destruction they leave in their path, so you won't often get ambushed, either.

[silencer_pl]

I've got reaction fired by Celatid so they can. At least in OpenXcom.

[Tycho]

Their ability to take damage is minimal, however, and I've got a hunch they can't fire reaction shots, so it's rare you'll see them firing at you in the first place...

 

They have such a limited range on their attack that I can't remember if I've ever seen one take reaction fire or not. I suspect that they don't in the original game, since their attack has its own special code with restrictions.

[silencer_pl]

 

Check at 6:55 and 20:05. It's OpenXcom and they might have changed something. I've seen them even adding reaction fire to Chrysalids. I haven't followed every change so I can't tell and I'm not knowledgeable in original code.

 

What bothered me is that second shot was kind of flat line I think.

[Tycho]

It looks like their reaction shots follow standard rules for weapon fire. It looks like your tank was outside the 10 range limit they should have. Do they arc spit on the alien turn?

[silencer_pl]

I've just checked - no they don't - and they definitely shoot from more than 10 tiles range. But I think the tank was shot by arc fire?

[Tycho]

It didn't seem so to me. I think they just gave the celatid a regular attack, making it more like the cyberdisk but doing acid damage.

[silencer_pl]

Check again. The tank and celatid were on ground level - however when shooting the view went up 3 levels then down ( you could see the top of UFO for a brief moment).

[Hobbes]

I've seen them even adding reaction fire to Chrysalids.

 

A.k.a. 'reaction bite' First time I saw it I was like "WTF????"

[Bomb Bloke]

Testing in CE, I can't get Celatids to fire reaction shots. I cloned about a dozen of them with maxed out TUs (or about four times their cap), then had my troopers wander around them - no response. Ended turn and they promptly squirted their acid spit everywhere.

 

Bear in mind they're not so much "changing" the code so much as they're "not noticing things they should be mimicking". It could be someone decided to turn a blind eye to the original behaviour intentionally, but it's just as likely a mistake.

[Zombie]

It's been a while, but I seem to remember Celatids taking reaction shots in the PSX version. So it may be a bug that Celatids aren't taking reaction shots in CE. You would think it would be an easy fix if you could reuse the code for a different terror unit that does reaction fire.

 

- Zombie

[Bomb Bloke]

Don't suppose you can remember if the PSX version played their firing animation?

 

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

They didn't.

[NKF]

And just to add to the discussion, Deep Ones in TFTD do not reaction fire as well. I think the AI may not normally react with terror unit turrets that fire in an arc.

 

- NKF

[Tycho]

Has this been checked in the DOS version?

 

I checked the code in CE and it is pretty specific that celatids are prevented from using snap shots, so they cannot make reaction shots.

[silencer_pl]

In OpenXcom aliens can use auto fire for reaction shots. Also I've noticed that the Celatidis in OpenXcom ALWAYS hit. Never saw a miss.

[magic9mushroom]

In OpenXcom aliens can use auto fire for reaction shots. Also I've noticed that the Celatidis in OpenXcom ALWAYS hit. Never saw a miss.

 

Aliens can use autofire for reaction shots in the original game as well, so that's not a change.

 

It sounds like Celatids' attack damage hasn't been increased (it was always supremely deadly) but some of the restrictions on their attack that make them much less dangerous haven't been implemented in OpenXcom. The main reason they were kinda derpy in the original was because their harsh range limits made them sitting ducks for weapon fire that didn't have those limits; they've always been terrifying up-close, but they're not particularly durable or fast (unlike Chryssalids) so they have a hard time closing the distance. They also show up alongside Mutons, which pack extreme durability and often carry Heavy Plasma, so they don't make much of an impact compared to their masters. Unlike Cyberdiscs and Chryssalids, which far outclass Sectoids and Snakemen, or Sectopods which pose a completely different threat than Ethereals, Celatids are just a decent beatstick that's paired with a race of beatsticks. Not very memorable.

[Tsathoggua]

Just seen a celatid hork up a react-fire loogie, can't be sure of shot type though. Had just caught up with a muton, saw it was packing a blaster launcher so charged the thing, wanting to take it alive. Didn't get to, though, had to blow its head off with a burst from the trooper's plasma rifle. Damn floating kidney was busy palpitating away round the corner but way too close, fried the muton crispy alright, made sure it never got a shot off with the launcher but the soldier died (albeit a hero, but still very, very dead) because the celatid spat on him.

 

And then itself got punished for it with a blaster round in the ass. Well whatever passes for something to crap out of anyway if your a floating, squelching, twitching; acid-spitting kidney monster,giving the walls, floors and ceiling a kidney transplant.

 

Do celatids still need LOS with that arcing attack of theirs? the 1 alien seen a soldier/HWP then the rest of them have the info as well rule not withstanding. And how does one tell for LOS and sneaking up which way a celatid is facing...when they don't have any.

if they get an attack off and hit with it then sure they make an impact alright. Not like a blaster shell or one of their grenades into a room full of troops mind you but whoever is on the sharp end is going to know about it, or whats left of him certainly is. Mutons take a lot of putting down, making for a lot of potential for reaction fire but a hit from a celatid is not usually a pretty sight. Well never a pretty sight considering its flying flesh-bag phlegm.