New S^3 Mod "All Uniforms" in development (feedback is welcome)

[Okim]

Thanks. I actually was afraid that you`ve simply removed the material for the scope...

 

One other question - is there a way to make descriptions for weapons rather than making it a part of the name (using html tags). Like what you use for your cords and other special items.

 

p.s. and btw - is there any random generator function for the scripts in this game?

[Ecthel013]

Editing

Seefeld_Dlg1

You: Are you in charge of the station?

Station Master: I am. Well, normally my husband is. He stayed home sick today and I am covering for him. Why?

You (ignoring her question): When is the express supply train from Poland arriving?

Station Master: Any minute now. I just received a telegram from Warsaw, it's running ahead of schedule. Why are you asking all these questions?

You: Frau, it's about to become very unsafe here. It would be wise to go home and join your husband. Now.

Station Master (scared): Oh my god! All right, I'm leaving! Thank you for the warning.

 

Seefeld_Dlg2_DanBad

Oswald: You take the front and I'll cover you from the house. Be careful! The train's been switched, it might be a setup.

Masked Fighter (dismissively): Come on, Oswald, you worry too much.

Oswald (irritated): I worry just enough, you dolt. Let's wrap it up quickly here, I need to get back to the manor; those idiots broke the security system again.

 

Seefeld_Dlg2_DanGood

Oswald: You take the front and I'll cover you from the house. Be careful! The train's been switched, it might be a setup.

Masked Fighter (dismissively): Come on, Oswald, you worry too much.

Oswald (irritated): I worry just enough, you dolt. Let's wrap it up quickly here, I need to go visit Erwin...

 

Fingerprints_Dlg2

Mikhalev: You said the person who dropped the note had mutilated fingertips?

You: Yes, as if they were burned or boiled. Why?

Mikhalev: We might be dealing with people who didn't make it to the Nuremberg Trials. Be careful, Lieutenant.

You: I will.

Mikhalev: All right, I'll meet you at the Central Depot. Good luck!

 

Panzerkleins

I agree with tofudog here. It simply makes no sense for anyone to try getting one, in-universe and out, if the common infantryman is superior in nearly every way when properly equipped and trained. In addition, the player has access to plenty of tools to disable them now unlike in S2, where only a few rare weapons could even scratch them, so they're no longer the unstoppable game-breaking juggernauts they were.

 

Panzerkleins should be a major threat when they show up, otherwise there's no point in having them around at all. To balance that, they should be rare (especially given that their original manufacturers got blown up), rather than the swarms that show up later on in the vanilla games. For possible changes:

1) Boost their armor to resist standard rifle fire better (AP ammo should still punch through), since I'm pretty sure its designers would want to ensure that it can withstand at least the standard infantry weapons of the day.

2) Increase VPs so they can take more bullets, though not to the point of requiring an extra rocket.

3) Reduce the various penalties, if possible. Their armor isn't as good as it used to be (for lack of appropriate materials/expertise/etc.), but technology has improved in other areas.

4) Make autodestruct a standard feature for all PKs, as no one would want theirs to fall into enemy hands. This means the player won't be swimming in PKs after a couple of late-game battles, and getting their hands on even one would be a great undertaking.

 

Alternately or in addition, could go with two overarching types of PKs: those made during the war, and those made afterwards.

1) The ones made during the war would be the PKs of S2, the implacable juggernauts that had generals drooling. These were made of a special metal that is no longer available in the amounts required, so they would be incredibly rare and highly prized by everyone. Boss fights, critical objectives, etc.

2) The ones made afterwards would be the PKs of S3, the degraded mass-production models. These are made of regular materials, which don't have the protective strength of the originals, but they can be built in relatively large numbers. The kind the player encounters most of the time.

 

As a side note, the Protector PK for the Contamination missions would be of the first type, though maybe with slightly weaker armor to reflect the space taken up by the added bio-chemical protection.

 

Cash and Traders

I think it's fine as is, since you can't get the really good stuff unless you go looking for it. Restricting the amount of special ammo he sells and not unlocking any of the unique weapons for sale is fine with me, but restricting him solely to starter equipment is going a bit too far, IMO. He's not just a random civilian shopkeeper, he's a Sentinel and probably already has extensive black market contacts.

 

As for prices, I feel that only the black market stuff (items that just entered service with their respective governments, body armor, high-end explosives, anything to do with PKs, stuff like that) should have a price increase, to represent the increased difficulty (and expense) of procuring them. The rest, though, should be relatively easy to come by.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, here is the thing with the PKs: I think the concept of them is pretty cool, but the way they where implemented into the game is the real problem. In the S2 they where walking tanks that where a pain in the ass to destroy, not to mention that the whole game changes dramatically once you got them yourself. In S3 they where toned down, but now they are pretty much useless because of them being nerfed a lot. So, my idea would be to make them actually useful again in terms of armor, weapons, sensors and all that stuff. I mean, we know have all the ammo and weapons to kill them anyway, so I think its just fair to balance it out by making the PKs actual useful.

 

How you ask? Well, I think I already stated earlier in this thread that they are a primitive version of Power Armor and should be support or assault type of weapon, that means they need good armor to survive the battle, should have more movement/time units so they can get around, better sensors to find the enemy, protected against poison, gas and radioactivity, not to mention that they should have powerful support/assault weapons, from machine guns to rocket launchers, they should pack a punch. However, at the same time it should be evident that PKs are expensive weapons and as such should not show up at any battlefield all the time, they should be seldom encountered and if you do, with the ammo types added in this mod you are able to deal with them, should it come to it.

 

PKs should not be push-overs is what I am saying. Instead of getting rid of them or outclass them, we should see if we cant change the way they operate in the mod and as state, make them as intended: a advanced piece of combat hardware that revolutionizes the dynamics of combat.

[Fireman]

Could always lean a bit more towards the entertainment sector for the PK's.

 

Robot fights in arena's, fuck yeah! A giant dome where you bet on PK's and their operators. Battlegrounds with minefields and tripwire and hydraulic presses to walk through! That way you won't have to face them outside of the arena's and they don't need to get nerfed/buffed!

 

No? Not realistic?

 

Well I thought it would be fun

[BlunterII]

The security system itself might yield some explosives (if that is what they used), but apart from that, there is nothing I can think of.

Depending on what else you had in mind, the oscilloscope might be in the house. For models I would not mind if you re-used existing boxes and labeled them "Crate with whatever in it"

 

Yes, that's probably the route I'll take. There are a lot of various box models in the game.

 

The Palmach (or whoever) - as I said "use or ignore as you see fit", but thanks for asking anyway. My personal view coincides nicely with yours, so paint them as black as you please. Nobody ever said that in undercover work potential allies had to be nice guys.

 

...and I was thinking - another terrorist organization to deal with... oh, no!

Besides, with the S^3 civilian casualty penalty system - those guys would go bankrupt pretty fast...

 

The medical things... Yes I was reacting to "Procuring Opium", but I also thought of using the hospital as another source of side-missions. Making it kind of a favor-for-a-favor economy in the line of "You are good at killing people and getting stuff, we are good at fixing people up, so lets trade healing a lungshot for getting truckload of anesthetics."

 

If I go ahead and get Erwin to the Sentinel base (as Ecthel suggested) - he might turn out to be a chemist... Gotta think about this one. There are some interesting possibilities there... including the opium quests...

 

The ongoing PK-debate... YEEEESSSSS, TANKS!!!! Tankety tank tank tank! Now that would be the ultimate infantryman´s challenge.

As it stands now, I cant see the tactical niche a PK would occupy. It is slow, loud, deaf and blind, vulnerable to small arms fire and it does not really pack any more firepower than a well equipped grenadier. On top of that one of them is probably expensive enough to train and equip a whole platoon of PK-hunting infantry.

If they were the walking tanks S2 originally said them to be, they would be of interest to the military - but then I would lobby for the revised perk trees of "Hammer and Sickle" and assume that you need so much specialised training that our heroes just cannot pilot them.

 

I agree with you.

I remember, Lt. was talking about Nival 'dropping the ball' on this whole PK issue at the beginning of the thread...

 

Now, the revised perk trees is something I've been thinking about for quite some time. (btw, I think H&S team did a nice job with those). What I have in mind is - Combined/ cross classes with:

 

- primary

- secondary

- out of class

- and reward perks

where the perk panel would have over 40 different perks to give more choice to players.

 

Primary would be the earliest available, basic perks specific to the primary occupation/ profession.

Example: Saboteur class would have "SMG spec", Grunt or Gunner "MG Spec", Assassin "Throwing Spec", melee, Infiltrator - "Pistol Spec", extra senses, etc.

 

Secondary would be the second/ cross class perks

Saboteur would have some of the explosives related perks, Grunt - melee, Assasin - medicine, Infiltrator - Lockpicking, etc.

 

Out of class would the perks from other classes (requiring 2 points instead of one. The first 'perk' being a dummy one and the second being the actual target perk)

Saboteur/Grunt - medicine, Assassin - explosives, Infiltrator - Rocket Launcher Spec, etc

 

Reward perks would be the ones not available through normal means and given/activated only upon successful completion of major quests ("Second Skin" for instance)

 

...just food for thought...

______________________________________________________

 

Hi Blunter,

 

Thanks for taking the time!

I don't think making more combinations is the way to go. Then we would have so many variants.

I'm trying to set up my editor right now. But it seems that MSDE is not in the steam dl. It's probably not compatible with my win7 system anyway.

I can see why you're staying on XP.

 

Could you show me what you changed anyway?

 

Microsoft dropped their support for MSDE. It won't run on anything past Win XP.

I heard it is possible to run the editor using other SQLs. Perhaps, someone else could enlighten us about that. My own attempts to do it in Win 7 environment were unsuccessful.

 

About the wigs - look in 'Complex Heads' tab, field called 'Hair'. Entering a model in that field overrides any uniform headgear. Meshes are generally used for additional items that don't interfere with uniform headgear: moustache, beard, eyepatches, glasses, etc.

____________________________________________________

 

Thanks. I actually was afraid that you`ve simply removed the material for the scope...

 

No problem.

 

One other question - is there a way to make descriptions for weapons rather than making it a part of the name (using html tags). Like what you use for your cords and other special items.

 

I wish I knew how to do that. Sorry

 

p.s. and btw - is there any random generator function for the scripts in this game?

 

Random number generator?

 

random(0,100)

 

Or did you mean something else?

_________________________________________________________

 

 

Panzerkleins

I agree with tofudog here. It simply makes no sense for anyone to try getting one, in-universe and out, if the common infantryman is superior in nearly every way when properly equipped and trained. In addition, the player has access to plenty of tools to disable them now unlike in S2, where only a few rare weapons could even scratch them, so they're no longer the unstoppable game-breaking juggernauts they were

Panzerkleins should be a major threat when they show up, otherwise there's no point in having them around at all. To balance that, they should be rare (especially given that their original manufacturers got blown up), rather than the swarms that show up later on in the vanilla games. For possible changes:

1) Boost their armor to resist standard rifle fire better (AP ammo should still punch through), since I'm pretty sure its designers would want to ensure that it can withstand at least the standard infantry weapons of the day.

2) Increase VPs so they can take more bullets, though not to the point of requiring an extra rocket.

3) Reduce the various penalties, if possible. Their armor isn't as good as it used to be (for lack of appropriate materials/expertise/etc.), but technology has improved in other areas.

4) Make autodestruct a standard feature for all PKs, as no one would want theirs to fall into enemy hands. This means the player won't be swimming in PKs after a couple of late-game battles, and getting their hands on even one would be a great undertaking.

 

Thank you for editing. I entered all the corrections.

 

Good stuff, Ecthel. You know, if the PKs are not available to the player (with some very rare exceptions), if they auto-destruct then making them rare 'Boss' enemies (like Helena from S^2) and boosting their weapons (range and damage) and armor would make sense. I could give the appropriate engineer perks, skill and stat boosts to the enemy PK operators to make them more efficient on the battlefield.

 

Alternately or in addition, could go with two overarching types of PKs: those made during the war, and those made afterwards.

1) The ones made during the war would be the PKs of S2, the implacable juggernauts that had generals drooling. These were made of a special metal that is no longer available in the amounts required, so they would be incredibly rare and highly prized by everyone. Boss fights, critical objectives, etc.

2) The ones made afterwards would be the PKs of S3, the degraded mass-production models. These are made of regular materials, which don't have the protective strength of the originals, but they can be built in relatively large numbers. The kind the player encounters most of the time.

 

Extremely rare but powerful vs. more common but degraded...

I like the premise, but... I have no idea of how to create two APAs (needed penetration values) since all the PKs in the game reference the same 1590 APA threshhold - meaning that if a weapon can damage a mass-produced model it'll be able to do the same to the juggernauts. The only way to offset that (that I know of) is to give those earlier models more armor (VPs)...

 

As a side note, the Protector PK for the Contamination missions would be of the first type, though maybe with slightly weaker armor to reflect the space taken up by the added bio-chemical protection.

 

Good point. Well, currently it's only 90.

 

Hmm... On the other hand, if I make drastic reductions to the HE/AP ammo pools - how much armor should we stick with then?

Personally, I consider PKs a cheat (for the human player). While we can figure out how to bring one down the AI is doomed from the start (unless we equip them accordingly). They'll be shooting Parabellum rounds at our PKs until they are blue in the face or more likely dead...

I agree with you - I would want to restrict PK access to the players as well... and, perhaps, make them vulnerable and in need of protection and covering fire. Essentially making player PKs - specialized bio-suits (not power armor, or walking tanks).

Of course, it's possible to make those scenario zones - 'No PKs allowed' zones (where the player is not allowed to bring their PKs)... but then the restriction would need to be explained somehow...

 

Cash and Traders

I think it's fine as is, since you can't get the really good stuff unless you go looking for it. Restricting the amount of special ammo he sells and not unlocking any of the unique weapons for sale is fine with me, but restricting him solely to starter equipment is going a bit too far, IMO. He's not just a random civilian shopkeeper, he's a Sentinel and probably already has extensive black market contacts.

 

As for prices, I feel that only the black market stuff (items that just entered service with their respective governments, body armor, high-end explosives, anything to do with PKs, stuff like that) should have a price increase, to represent the increased difficulty (and expense) of procuring them. The rest, though, should be relatively easy to come by.

 

All right...

Which items do you think should belong in the 'black market' category?

_____________________________________________________________

Well, here is the thing with the PKs: I think the concept of them is pretty cool, but the way they where implemented into the game is the real problem. In the S2 they where walking tanks that where a pain in the ass to destroy, not to mention that the whole game changes dramatically once you got them yourself. In S3 they where toned down, but now they are pretty much useless because of them being nerfed a lot. So, my idea would be to make them actually useful again in terms of armor, weapons, sensors and all that stuff. I mean, we know have all the ammo and weapons to kill them anyway, so I think its just fair to balance it out by making the PKs actual useful.

 

How you ask? Well, I think I already stated earlier in this thread that they are a primitive version of Power Armor and should be support or assault type of weapon, that means they need good armor to survive the battle, should have more movement/time units so they can get around, better sensors to find the enemy, protected against poison, gas and radioactivity, not to mention that they should have powerful support/assault weapons, from machine guns to rocket launchers, they should pack a punch. However, at the same time it should be evident that PKs are expensive weapons and as such should not show up at any battlefield all the time, they should be seldom encountered and if you do, with the ammo types added in this mod you are able to deal with them, should it come to it.

 

PKs should not be push-overs is what I am saying. Instead of getting rid of them or outclass them, we should see if we cant change the way they operate in the mod and as state, make them as intended: a advanced piece of combat hardware that revolutionizes the dynamics of combat.

 

I hear you. I am not sure if I can give them different weapons, but I can change the existing ones' stats. I'll see what I can do, Lt.

As long as the player can't get their hands on those - fine... Let's make them deadly.

 

Let me readjust the HE/AP numbers first and test them... and then... we shall see.

 

Could always lean a bit more towards the entertainment sector for the PK's.

 

Robot fights in arena's, fuck yeah! A giant dome where you bet on PK's and their operators. Battlegrounds with minefields and tripwire and hydraulic presses to walk through! That way you won't have to face them outside of the arena's and they don't need to get nerfed/buffed!

 

No? Not realistic?

 

Well I thought it would be fun

 

Now, betting on Robot fights is an interesting angle...

____________________________________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Fishmachine]

The main problem in S2 with the implementation of Panzerkleins was not that they were OP, but that they were introduced way to late in the game. Playing Axis you could actually meet them maybe 3 missions before the end of the game. And they were a complete gamebreakers - because up until then stealth was the key, and afterwards it all depended on which side had more beam PKs.

 

In S3 they were implemented way better - not invincible like in S2, but impervious to regular infantry weapons, while sensitive to dedicated AT weaponry. The main problem was that the Panzerkleins thrown at you by the enemy were rarely in anti-PK configuration, and having a full team of own PKs with sniper/cannon/Piat config right off the bat made these missions quite boring.

 

So, regarding the Panzerkleins in the mod, there are two sensible options IMO:

1) Get rid of them entirely and use H&S-like perk trees without PK-related perks. Making them weaker or providing some powerful weapons making them "just a nuisance" makes no sense both in the ingame universum nor in the real world. Well armored and heavily-armed regular enemies will do the trick without breaking the game balace.

2) Use them ingame, but make them more rare (not wave after wave, but one or two per mission) and make them dangerous. Not by overbuffing them like beam ones in S2 but give them long-range weapons and pilots able to use it. Also, to make the capturing harder, make them self destruct unless the pilot gets killed, but leaving parts behind - that way there will be a possibility to capture one by killing the pilot (not that easy task) or by collecting parts and mounting them on your own (for example get 4 parts and pay $10k to build one).

 

As for the special ammo - as long as it's OP and there's a way to abuse it, no artificial constraint will balance it. Every type of ammo needs to have some kind of a drawback to keep the balance, otherwise there will always be a way to farm and abuse it. Been there, done that

 

And, for the sake of regular S3 players out there, consider releasing a non-total-conversion fork of your mod with all the non-test-only features (uniforms, regular items, class changes, grenade range, perk auto-select disable etc.) because they are awesome and can provide a tons of fun while waiting for a full version of your mod. By looking at the extent of work you're up to, it's going to take a lots of time before the release i fear

[omamesh]

Hi all.

First I have played Silent Storm Sentinel long long time ago. I thing this is still the best game for me.

This mod is the best, awesome.

But, where I can download version 2.5

And can I summons new weapons using setitem? What code?

[BlunterII]

_____________________________________

Herr Lander's quest update:

 

 

There is no need to postpone the conversation if we lost or threw away the report (i.e. it's not in our storage or on the floor at the base somewhere)... just get on with the show...

 

ready for editing:

 

2 SoWhatHaveUDiscovered

 

I heard you've been to Nedlitz. Do you have any leads?

(Herr Lander values evidence. He might even throw

in something special if you bring clues to him.)

--------------------------

 

2 AboutTheReport

 

...about the counterfeit banknotes found in Danilov's house.

--------------------------

 

2 NotReadyYet

 

Not just yet...

 

___________________________________________________

 

 

ready for editing:

 

Mes_CounterfeitRepForgot

 

...it would be helpful to get a look at the documents you found in Nedlitz. Oh well...

_______________________________________

 

 

ready for editing:

 

2a MintDetailsNoReport_Body

 

The old mint,

Herr Lander suspects the counterfeiters are using one of the stolen printing machines from an old mint in Kopenick. There is no way to tell without an actual sample.

The building has been abandoned for several years. Most of the equipment was seized and shipped to the Soviet Union at the end of WWII. What Soviets didn't know is that there is an extensive network of tunnels underneath the structure.

Your task is to find a way inside and look for any useful information you can find about the possible whereabouts of the missing printing press.

_________________________________________

 

 

ready for editing:

 

Mes_CounterfeitRepBrought

 

Herr Lander appreciates your diligence. He gives you a magnetic key card you might need at the mint.

________________________________________________

 

 

ready for editing:

 

2 MintDetailsReport_Body

 

The old mint,

Herr Lander recognized the patterns on the banknotes you found in Danilov's house. He suspects the counterfeiters are using one of the stolen printing machines from an old mint in Kopenick. It had a unique signature.

The building has been abandoned for several years. Most of the equipment was seized and shipped to the Soviet Union at the end of WWII. What Soviets didn't know is that there is an extensive network of tunnels underneath the structure.

Your task is to find a way inside and look for any useful information you can find about the possible whereabouts of the missing printing press.

______________________________________________________

 

 

ready for editing:

 

Received "Old Mint" mission OutLog message

 

Herr Lander has asked you to investigate the old minting facility in Kopenick

__________________________________________________

 

 

____________________________________________

 

 

Global Variable values that control this quest (so far):

 

0 - haven't talked to Lander at all

1 - Got "Counterfeit" mission but haven't picked up the report at Danilov's house

2 - Picked up the report (the dialog about Nedlitz becomes available)

3 - Got "Old Mint" mission but haven't gone there yet

4 - ...Shut down the counterfeiting machine...

_____________________________________________

 

As you might have noticed - not bringing the report just limits players access (or makes it harder to get) to certain areas. In case the player didn't pick up the report while at Danilov's house- the quest doesn't progress past Global Variable 1.

_____________________________________________

 

Now, what would we find at the old mint? Who is going to be there? DW covering their tracks???

 

I can create an evacuated (empty) dilapidated 2-3 story building... a basement with a locked vault door...

Any special items in the vault?

 

I thought of adding the 'Red ATP Tape' (Shooting Module) in there - if the player failed to neutralize BadDan or killed GoodDan - making the 'Kommandant' mission (where that tape is currently located) unavailable... If it remains this way, what do we find in the vault? (provided we played our cards right in Nedlitz...)

_____________________________________________

_____________________________________________

 

Fishmachine,

 

You made a really good case regarding HE/IP rounds. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

I did some extensive testing and decided to eliminate those from the game entirely (or at least for now).

7.92mm Mauser B-Patrone, .30-06 "Pomeroy", "Tokarev API", .303 British "I" are gone and have been substituted with corresponding 'surplus' ammo (90% damage of the regular round)

7.5 MAS IP, 7.62 x 54 mm API, 7.62 x 39 API, 7.92mm Kurz - remained, but are AP rounds now (no grenade attached).

Sea Devil retained its ammo types (Reg., AP, HE, JHP) with the HE values reduced by roughly 50%, and the AP damage values set at approx. 80% of the regular round.

 

All the existing AP rounds have been overhauled and set at 75% DAM of the regular round. That includes:

 

.30 Carbine KTW (AP)

.30-06 Armor Piercing

.303 British Armor Piercing W Mk 1Z

7.5mm MAS Balle incendiere-perforante (AP)

7.62x39Rmm USSR BZ Armor Piercing Incendiary

7.62x54Rmm Armor Piercing Incendiary

7.92mm Kurz Armor Piercing

7.92mm Mauser Armor Piercing

__________________________________________

 

Surplus ammo has its own worn, rusty texture. The price is around 85-90% of its stardard cousin.

 

 

________________________________

 

Now, the penetration values in the game depend on several factors:

- grenade APA value (if applicable)

- bullet weight (RPGAmmos)

- initial velocity (RPGWeapons)

- ...(something else I don't know about)

So, don't be surprised at how different some of those numbers are, especially in some of the unique weapons.

 

Bullet weight for almost all AP rounds was increased using this formula: AP bullet weight = Original bullet weight x 1.5

and AP Dam = Original Dam x 0.75

 

I can reduce it even lower...

 

 

 

Another note: I reduced DAM, penetration, range and some other values for most of the unique items (including the 'Bull's Eye' below. The screenshot was taken before I did it...)

 

 

________________________________________________

 

Surplus ammo clips for 7.92mm Mauser are shown below

 

 

(M38 clip, Reg rifle clip, ZB, FG-42, tripod MG-34 box, MG-34 drum, Box, MG81Z)

 

Other clips affected -

 

.30-06 Springfield: BAR, Johnson LMG, Johnson rifle clip, Box .30 cal, Garand, Springfield rifle clip

 

.303 British: Bren, Lewis, Lee-Enfield clips

 

7.62x25 Tokarev: PPD drum and PPShm/PPS clips

 

 

If there is a problem with naming conventions, let me know - I'll change those. Currently all the new surplus ammos have '... Surplus' added.

______________________________________________

 

I'll see what I can do about releasing v 2.4 (incomplete) sooner.

 

Most of the 'non-experimental' changes you are talking about are (and have been) available in v 2.0 (uniforms, regular items, class changes, grenade range, perk auto-select disable). Just don't use the 'binoculars' to avoid the crash associated with them.

 

PKs: I like the idea of making them very rare, extremely powerful and auto-destructing. Collecting parts and constructing one's own (weaker versions only ) - is something I might consider doing. When we get to making those encounters (alien saucer, Area X...) - we'll see.

 

Thank you for your interest and comments.

_______________________________________________

 

Omamesh,

 

Thank you.

v 2.5 hasn't been released yet.

I don't provide item codes at this time.

_______________________________________________

 

A note to other modders: To avoid item, uniform, template and other ID compatibility issues and crashes before starting with your mod set your new database value to something other than 1000000 or 1700000. It's in the editor 'Tools', an entry called "Set database base ID value..."

_______________________________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Fishmachine]

https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3841/751/1600/TotallyAwesome.0.jpg

 

And after you finish that mod go and start a game studio to resurrect turn-based SLS genre - the XCOM:EU made the way already

[Lt.Havoc]

There goes the B-patrone, I hardly knew ye....oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Just sad that all this research we did regarding HEAP-Rifle ammo was more or less in vain, but I should have see it coming.

[Okim]

Wait a second... Options in DIALOGUES? Is it for real?

[BlunterII]

Thanks, Fishmachine.

(SLS ???)

__________________________

 

Lt.,

Come on, don't bury them yet

 

All the research, the models and the names are still there, ready to be reused... but, perhaps in a different form.

 

Last night I test-ran through several encounters with just a few of those HE/IP clips. I leveled buildings, made enemies fly across the templates, killed several PKs and their pilots in 1-2 turns and defeated hordes of "Iron Maiden" and "Heavily Armored" troopers with relative ease... It was fun, no question about it, but absolutely no challenge. None whatsoever.

 

I guess I was so excited to add those new clips that I neglected to consider the balancing issues. The numbers I entered were... err... high (APA and bullet weight close to those of a PIAT rocket, HE damage alone ~ 20-30 per bullet, etc.)

 

Those are great rounds and later I will bring some of them back (B-Patrone, Pomeroy)... possibly with small 'splash' damage (~ 2-8), tiny area of effect (1), no penetration bonuses, extremely rare, etc. I'll need to think about that... Suggestions???

_________________________

 

P.S.: Okim,

 

Those are not dialogues but Dialog Mode entries...

_________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Fishmachine]

Thanks, Fishmachine.

(SLS ???)

 

Um... Squad Level Strategy?

It used to be quite popular term...

When the Jagged Alliance 2 was popular...

Damn, I feel old...

[Okim]

P.S.: Okim,

 

Those are not dialogues but Dialog Mode entries...

 

Any tips on how to use these?

 

And one more question - is it possible to equip a person in 'pers' tab with a body armour? Like have hireable merc wearing a body armour 1 or have some enemies use these armours.

 

I know how to set an armour type for the pers/model to have, but that`s not what i need.

[tofudog]

Hello World,

 

@ Fishmachine - no need to worry about that. Remember, Blunter has kids big enough to play Silent Storm, I grew up to the music of Eno, Kraftwerk and Iron Maiden, and there are others here whose posts suggest at least thirty-something.

So you may feel old, but you are in good company.

.

 

Sometimes when you look away, things just sort themselves out on their own. For the time being I am glad about the changes you made (especially the reduced power specials - surprise me), Sir Mister Blunter, but as I spent some time thinking I will write my piece anyway .

 

Here goes -

 

It all comes down to what you are going for, in terms of look and feel.

As far as I can see, this mods is happening on three levels, that all can work on their own.

The story part is shaping up to become a classic text-adventure (You have a right to feel old, when you were hooked on those as a kid . Thirty years ago these were state of the art gaming. Along with "Pong".), as far as I can see it from here.

It will demand some attention and smart decisions from the player to progress well.

A big part of this thread is about "We have this situation and those people involved - what happens next?" I happen to like that, but in the end it is Blunter´s decision to continue in this vein or change it to something else completely.

 

The second part, that I see is the tactical combat. Here everything depends on what look and feel you are going for (I for example would start the heroes at maybe level 6, as they are veterans of many years of war - some are old enough to have fought 14-18 and are tough enough to stand up to combatants who are in their prime now - but half their age).

Here we are talking about our balancing issues with or without PKs, about the effectiveness of various classes of firearms, the validity of melee, about the role of stealth and so on. Most of the time, I at least, just dive in to a detail that is bugging me right now, without considering the whole and I think, the mod could profit from defining what the "whole" ought to be.

Like what level of survivability is intended and how many casualties per mission are acceptable? Do we want tiers of weapon power and how do we implement them?

 

Without evil intent, I would call the third level "Look here Ma, no hands!" A showcase of what you can do with this engine.

This is a valid reason for a mod to exist and quite a fun one at that. There is something appealing about blowing some random virtual guy´s head off with a small red "518" floating away from the crumbling corpse, while you imagine the fat "ka-chank" of your Solothurn gun cycling to the second round, I feel it too .

 

Maybe we could further profit from having a look at what level an element belongs to, even before doing a reality check, because there is no guarantee, that "Realism" is even intended at any given moment.

Like betting on robot fights... Arcane alloys, that are no longer producable - sounds like pure Swords and Sorcery to me...

Silent guns - the combination of subsonic ammo and silencer yielded 75% reduction in noise (still a loud bang, especially with burst fire ) on devices of the period and without subsonic ammo a silencer is and will always be completely useless...

and so on.

 

Concerning surplus ammo - wouldn´t the penetration also be slightly lower than the original?

[Alfred]

Hello everyone,

 

great work just awesome.

 

Had a try a few month ago and was a bit confused about the HE Ammo, u cant put an Abomb into a matchbox (common one), but as i see it was changed a bit.

 

The Castle Encounter is just lovely, a bit small map in my opinion but that has nothing to say.

 

Also RandomStorm-mod is unfortunately not compatible, the mods seems to block each other - just a notice.

Thanks to AddMod its just a bit fumbling;)

 

regards

[BlunterII]

Um... Squad Level Strategy?

 

I see. I am not familiar with JA 2. My early gaming was limited to LoM SE and various city building titles from Maxis and Impressions (before the 'Tilted Mill' fiasco)... I didn't even get a PC or a console until I was in my thirties. Missed out on a lot of fun, I know.

 

___________________________________________________________________

 

Any tips on how to use these?

 

Here is a part of the script used in Hero - Herr Lander interaction I showed a few posts back:

 

WaitForUI( DialogModeBegin() )

WaitForUI( DialogModeSet( 1701130, 2, 0, 1701131,1701132 ) )

--1701130--Heard-About-Nedlitz-Leads?(Better-Bring-Evidence)

--1701131--About-the-counterfeit-banknotes-at-Danilov's

--1701132--not-ready-yet

local ret = GetLastDialogResult()

----Not--Ready---Yet----------------------------

if(ret==0) or (ret==2) then

WaitForUI( DialogModeEnd() )

end

------Tell--About--The--CounterfeitReport-------

if(ret==1) then

 

 

 

And one more question - is it possible to equip a person in 'pers' tab with a body armour? Like have hireable merc wearing a body armour 1 or have some enemies use these armours.

 

I believe UnitSetArmour(), UnitGetArmour() are used in Hammer and Sickle only...

 

________________________________________________________________

 

It all comes down to what you are going for, in terms of look and feel.

As far as I can see, this mods is happening on three levels, that all can work on their own.

The story part is shaping up to become a classic text-adventure (You have a right to feel old, when you were hooked on those as a kid . Thirty years ago these were state of the art gaming. Along with "Pong".), as far as I can see it from here.

It will demand some attention and smart decisions from the player to progress well.

A big part of this thread is about "We have this situation and those people involved - what happens next?" I happen to like that, but in the end it is Blunter´s decision to continue in this vein or change it to something else completely.

 

I am glad that approach resonates with you, tofu. I happened to like it too.

 

Although the recent temporary elimination of the HE rounds might seem like an arbitrary action, I intend to bring them back later but, generally I try to listen to what the contributing members propose and attempt to include those ideas in the mod (if possible*), so I don't think I am going to be making any drastic changes without consulting with them first. I wouldn't want to be perceived as a despot (I realize you might not have meant it that way). I think the whole thing is happening because of people like Lt., Ecthel, TR, Fireman, you, and many others. Your ongoing interest, support, advice and nagging is what's been moving this project forward. I really appreciate your participation

 

--------------

* remote explosives, proposed by Fireman - I am still trying to figure it out how to implement it.

* 'Faster Shots' problem (mentioned by riftsaw) - still looking into correcting it. I might need to look in H&S for that. IIRC, they fixed it there...

*...and a few others...

 

The second part, that I see is the tactical combat. Here everything depends on what look and feel you are going for (I for example would start the heroes at maybe level 6, as they are veterans of many years of war - some are old enough to have fought 14-18 and are tough enough to stand up to combatants who are in their prime now - but half their age).

 

Yes, I remember Lt. was talking about possibly starting at lvl 4. The issue with that is that we are already proficient with a lot of things (skills) at lvl 0, we are not civilians without any military training (our starting skills say otherwise).

 

Here is a true civilian (annotated):

 

 

But if that's a real issue then sure - we can start at a higher level.

 

Here we are talking about our balancing issues with or without PKs, about the effectiveness of various classes of firearms, the validity of melee, about the role of stealth and so on. Most of the time, I at least, just dive in to a detail that is bugging me right now, without considering the whole and I think, the mod could profit from defining what the "whole" ought to be.

Like what level of survivability is intended and how many casualties per mission are acceptable? Do we want tiers of weapon power and how do we implement them?

 

I can't define the "whole" simply because I don't know it myself. We make things up as we go along (as long as it sticks to the general direction Lt. prescribed and we agreed on). I certainly take creative license from time to time (it comes with the position I am in)...

 

You might want to be a little more specific about the concerns you have (whether it's stealth, melee, etc.)

 

I can tell you - I am not very happy with Nival's weapon tiers (, i.e. Soviet weapons being superior for one ???)

 

Without evil intent, I would call the third level "Look here Ma, no hands!" A showcase of what you can do with this engine.

This is a valid reason for a mod to exist and quite a fun one at that. There is something appealing about blowing some random virtual guy´s head off with a small red "518" floating away from the crumbling corpse, while you imagine the fat "ka-chank" of your Solothurn gun cycling to the second round, I feel it too .

 

Right, well the mod is still in development... so err... it's hard to tell whether something belongs or not if we don't know what's ahead... What if it's a 'boss PK' ... Solothurn might turn out to be what the doctor ordered.

 

Maybe we could further profit from having a look at what level an element belongs to, even before doing a reality check, because there is no guarantee, that "Realism" is even intended at any given moment.

Like betting on robot fights... Arcane alloys, that are no longer producable - sounds like pure Swords and Sorcery to me...

 

I am not sure what you are getting at here, tofu? 'Realism' as in realistic? Or making sense in this 'Alternative history scenario'?

 

 

Silent guns - the combination of subsonic ammo and silencer yielded 75% reduction in noise (still a loud bang, especially with burst fire ) on devices of the period and without subsonic ammo a silencer is and will always be completely useless...

and so on.

 

That's S^3 system. I don't think I can do much about it (except, maybe making some of the 'silenced' weapons not so silenced any more). The idea of using subsonic ammo might be interesting, but that would also mean those weapons would not be able to use regular rounds - making stealthy approach more complicated (subsonic ammo is not going to be easy to obtain, I assume).

 

Concerning surplus ammo - wouldn´t the penetration also be slightly lower than the original?

 

Do you think surplus ammo's penetration values need to be reduced?

 

____________________________________________________________

 

Hello everyone,

 

great work just awesome.

 

Had a try a few month ago and was a bit confused about the HE Ammo, u cant put an Abomb into a matchbox (common one), but as i see it was changed a bit.

The Castle Encounter is just lovely, a bit small map in my opinion but that has nothing to say.

Also RandomStorm-mod is unfortunately not compatible, the mods seems to block each other - just a notice.

Thanks to AddMod its just a bit fumbling;)

 

Thanks, Alfred. I found 80 x 80 templates easier to handle. Larger ones are harder to test...

I'll add quite a few randoms of my own. Hopefully that will help with RE scarcity in S^3.

(HE ammo is not present in the game at all at this point.)

__________________________________________________________

 

Now, about the classes. To illustrate the points I brought up earlier - here is a new class: Saboteur.

 

 

I thought the crossed 'BAR' and a pile of 'Dynamite Sticks' would serve as a good 'profession' icon for this new class.

__________________________________________________

 

 

The perk progression's been tested and found satisfactory. UnitGiveRandomPerks() command is applicable as well.

_______________________________________________

 

 

A lot of various possibilities to progress and improve here. Some of the top perks are not available on purpose since it's a 'multi-class' - Jack of Two Trades but master of none (resembling Baldur's Gate's gnomes and halflings somewhat). Of course, it will depend on how much experience our units will be able to accumulate over the course of the game. Most classes will run out of perks around lvl. 26-28; the 'Saboteur' can stick around a bit longer.

______________________________________________________

 

Note: I didn't make 'Saboteur' class available to the player... not did I assign this class to any mercs yet. (Rocco got it temporarily - for this demonstration only)

 

For those who are interested in creating multi-classes - here is a list of S^3 perks:

(let me know if you need descriptions)

 

4 Look for free

5 Ignore wounds

6 Faster Familiarization

7 Faster Pose Change

8 Survival

9 SMG Specialization

10 Faster Short Burst

11 Faster Attributes Growth

12 Good Shot From Any Pose

13 MG Specialization

14 Run For Your Life

15 Faster Snap

16 Longer Short Burst

17 Find Cover

18 Controlled Long Burst

19 Steady Gun

20 Better Hearing

21 Night Hunt

22 Faster Shots???

23 Awareness

24 Heal Me Better

25 Increased Spot

26 Increased Ranged Damage

27 Vanguard

28 Inspiration

29 Second Skin

30 Reduced Recoil

31 Faster Aimed Shot

32 Faster Melee Hit

33 Faster Reload

34 Faster Crawl

35 Faster Crouching

36 Better Critical Chance

37 Always Melee Critical

38 Always Ranged Critical

39 Avoid AE

40 Better Evasion

41 Stealth Run

42 Body Carrier

43 Fast Throw

44 Better Critical Severity

45 Rage

46 Resist Critical

47 Resist Critical Severity

48 Demolition

49 Difficult Trap

50 Master Engineer

51 Disarm Traps

52 Burglar

53 Always Explosives Critical

54 Master Sniper

55 Increased Melee damage

56 Surgeon

57 Master Medic

58 Perfect Medical Knowledge

59 Little Blood

60 Faster Skills Growth

61 Wisdom

62 Faster Critical Healing

63 Bandages Master

64 Prolonged Medical Treatment

65 Know Enemy Health

66 Team Spirit

67 Pistol Specialization

68 Rifle Specialization

69 Better Careful Shot

70 Melee Specialization

71 Force of Habit

72 Shoot Through Cover

73 Faster Aiming

74 Ambush

75 Hide In The Dark

76 Increased Sensor Range

77 Lower PK Noise

78 Appraise PKs

79 PK Technician

80 Trap Sense

81 Night Vision

82 Increased Sight Angle

83 Increased Sight Range

84 RL Specialization

85 Aim Before Shot

86 Increased Shot Range

87 Increased Familiarity

88 Increased Throwing Range

89 Throwing Specialization

90 Better Grenade Timing

91 Grenade Master

92 Good Throw From Any Pose

93 Solo

94 Increased AE Damage

 

----------------------------------

Note: I will need to put together a couple of classes for enemies, so if you have any ideas about the perks I should include - shoot, I'll consider it.

 

weak enemy - for us to face early on, lvl. 1-8

regular enemy - ~ 8-14 player levels.

hardened/veteran - lvl 14 +

exceptional/super - any time we face a boss character regardless of level

officer - regular perks + perks inspiring the troops around them...

Basically, anything except for "Look For Free"

 

They'll be given those OnEnterZone() (upon loading the scenario zone or RE) to make it easier for me to distribute enemy perks through UnitGiveRandomPerks(unit) command (that gives random perks to that 'unit').

_______________________________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Vympel]

Possible bug I have noticed or maybe incompatibility with other mods :

 

-I see no random encounters in Switzerland at all no matter what I do ( With Random storm or without )

 

Note: I will need to put together a couple of classes for enemies, so if you have any ideas about the perks I should include - shoot, I'll consider it.

 

weak enemy - for us to face early on, level. 1-8

regular enemy - ~ 8-14 player levels.

hardened/veteran - level 14 +

exceptional/super - any time we face a boss character regardless of level

officer - regular perks + perks inspiring the troops around them...

Basically, anything except for "Look For Free"

 

They'll be given those OnEnterZone() (upon loading the scenario zone or RE) to make it easier for me to distribute enemy perks through UnitGiveRandomPerks(unit) command (that gives random perks to that 'unit').

 

In terms of overall challenge I suggest giving all enemy NPC's perks that would help them spot you better they have a real problem with seeing you 2 feet from them sitting under a tree Problem with hearing is even worse firing of an mg doesn’t attract enemies standing pretty close to the source of fire . Also consider removing the ability to hide/camo during day time . Another thing would be is giving enemy NPS's some med kits and the skill to patch u up their wounds . Basically making player pay for making stupid decisions and not thinking tactically is what would make the game more interesting .

 

Weapon damage seems to be rather unreaslistic a shot to the head in 99.9% cases should d result in death and an smg burst to the body at short range should kill unless the target is heavely armored.

[BlunterII]

Thank you for your comments, Vympel.

 

Possible bug I have noticed or maybe incompatibility with other mods :

 

-I see no random encounters in Switzerland at all no matter what I do ( With Random storm or without )

 

It's not a bug, Vympel. There are no regular REs in Switzerland in S^3. There is one 'special' encounter (probability of showing - 7, i.e. very low). Camp for a bit or wait and you might find out.

 

In terms of overall challenge I suggest giving all enemy NPC's perks that would help them spot you better they have a real problem with seeing you 2 feet from them sitting under a tree

 

All right, that's primarily 'Spot' related. I'll increase that skill for some of them (and consider giving them some of the 'spot' related perks as well).

 

Problem with hearing is even worse firing of an mg doesn’t attract enemies standing pretty close to the source of fire.

 

After I changed the weapon noise radius - it won't happen anymore. Every enemy (and allies) on the map (max tested was 112x112) can hear the player and if not set to guard or AI-off - they charge that position.

 

Also consider removing the ability to hide/camo during day time.

 

Frankly, I didn't like that in Hammer and Sickle. There must be some other solution, perhaps increasing enemy spot if its daylight???

Besides most of the encounters I've introduced so far - happen at night...

 

Another thing would be is giving enemy NPS's some med kits and the skill to patch u up their wounds.

 

I am not sure if it's possible.

 

Basically making player pay for making stupid decisions and not thinking tactically is what would make the game more interesting.

 

Yes, the base game is overly forgiving. Good point!

 

Weapon damage seems to be rather unreaslistic a shot to the head in 99.9% cases should d result in death and an smg burst to the body at short range should kill unless the target is heavely armored.

 

Hmm... I wonder how that would change the overall 'balance'.

Especially if we give them appropriate perks (critical related) and make their shooting skill much higher...

___________________________________________________

 

[EDIT] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want a little challenge copy and paste this script in your s3Common scripts (it's found in the folder called 'Scripts' in your Silent Storm main directory.)

- open it with your Notepad

- paste the script somewhere after the end of OnWeaponBroken() function and before

out( "Common functions were loaded" )

- save it (in Win 7 & 8 you'd need to give yourself the necessary permissions/ do it 'as administrator' before it will allow you to save the modified file)

 

--------------------------------------------------------

function BEB() --Blunter Enemy Buffs

local HeroLevel=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_LEVEL)

local HeroSpot=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_SPOT)

local HeroShooting=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_SHOOTING)

local HeroStealth=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_STEALTH)

local HeroVP=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_VP)

local HeroAP=UnitGetSkillMaxValue(GetHero(),ST_AP)

 

local i

for i=0,GroupGetSize(PlayerGetUnits(1)) -1 do

local unit=GroupGetUnit(PlayerGetUnits(1),i)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_LEVEL, HeroLevel)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_SPOT, HeroSpot + 120)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_SHOOTING, HeroShooting + 40)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_STEALTH, HeroStealth + 20)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_AP, HeroAP)

RND=random(55,175)

UnitSetSkillMaxValue(unit, ST_VP, HeroVP + RND)

UnitSetSkill(unit, ST_VP, HeroVP + RND)

 

UnitHide(unit)

end

end

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, when entering any RE open the console ' ~ ' and type:

 

BEB()

 

then press 'Enter'

 

exit the console.

 

Enjoy the new challenge!

(Feel free to readjust the numbers if you think it's too tough or not tough enough...)

___________________________________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Fishmachine]

Weapon damage seems to be rather unreaslistic a shot to the head in 99.9% cases should d result in death and an smg burst to the body at short range should kill unless the target is heavely armored.

 

Hmm... I wonder how that would change the overall 'balance'.

Especially if we give them appropriate perks (critical related) and make their shooting skill much higher...

 

No no no, do not mix realism into a strategy game with HP pools.

In reality a mere shot into a vital organ with .22 LR round is enough to kill someone. Do we really want such "reality" in the game?

A stock "always critical" mod in S2 made the game a carnage in any prolonged shootout

 

Another thing - if you're making sneaking harder, enemy spot higher and enemies tougher, it kinda makes the scout class - especially melee-oriented one - useless. Why even bother with a knife, if you cannot kill the enemy in a single blow, and can't sneak up on them? Scout is usually dead when detected near the enemy.

 

The subsonic ammo is already implemented into the stock game with decreased silenced weapons parameters. I also see not much sense into nerfing it more, as it's not very powerful in the first place. Making it "not that silent" renders silenced weapons useless, because what's the use of a weapon with decreased stats, when you get spotted after first shot anyway?

 

Also, about the increased hearing range - won't that just make all the enemies come after my team after first shot? I'm afraid that it can lead to hiding behind corner/into buildings with grenades and SMGs and waiting for all of them to just come and die in my interrupt/mined corridor combo after I lure them with a single shot.into the air.

[BlunterII]

No no no, do not mix realism into a strategy game with HP pools.

In reality a mere shot into a vital organ with .22 LR round is enough to kill someone. Do we really want such "reality" in the game?

A stock "always critical" mod in S2 made the game a carnage in any prolonged shootout

 

Another thing - if you're making sneaking harder, enemy spot higher and enemies tougher, it kinda makes the scout class - especially melee-oriented one - useless. Why even bother with a knife, if you cannot kill the enemy in a single blow, and can't sneak up on them? Scout is usually dead when detected near the enemy.

 

I am not making sneaking 'harder' - I am considering removing the possibility of hiding and sneaking in broad daylight right in front of the enemies undetected (similar to what Shade could do at higher levels) by allowing some of them to spot you. I found that ability absurd... didn't you?

 

- Only some enemies should have increased spot (snipers, spotters, veterans etc.) and increased to different degree depending on their profession and 'experience', while regular grunts should have higher VPs, officers should probably have both moderately increased.

- Some pure (no throwing) melee weapons (or most of them) need to have higher stats (how many Katana hits are needed to kill somebody?). Except the ones we need for subduing (Billy Club, Black Jack), of course (to avoid killing...).

 

Local scripts should control how alarmed some/ all enemies are on any given map.

If you've been spotted >> boost to enemy 'Spot'. They'll be actively looking for you.

if you stay hidden and quiet >> no boost...., etc.

 

The subsonic ammo is already implemented into the stock game with decreased silenced weapons parameters. I also see not much sense into nerfing it more, as it's not very powerful in the first place.

 

Implementing subsonic ammo doesn't necessarily mean a 'decrease'. It could stay the same (or even increase) it all depends on that ammo's parameters... One thing that would change - that those weapons would not be able to use regular ammo of the same caliber.

 

Making it "not that silent" renders silenced weapons useless, because what's the use of a weapon with decreased stats, when you get spotted after first shot anyway?

 

There is a whole range of how 'loud' (heard by AI) a weapon could be. Currently, doing a longburst from a 'Sten III silenced' some 8-10 game tiles away from an AI produces no reaction from them as long as we are not shooting in their direction. How is increasing it to ~15 tiles or reducing it to 5, for example, going to make it "useless"?

 

Also, about the increased hearing range - won't that just make all the enemies come after my team after first shot?

 

That depends on the script. Even default routines allow them to hide, guard, charge or flank.

 

Actually all non-silenced weapons were somewhat silenced in vanilla S^3. Did you notice how opening fire from non-silenced weapons wasn't 'perceived' by some enemies a few houses away? They'd just stand and 'smoke' (Calm AI state)... You didn't see a problem with that?

That's why I changed that.

 

 

I'm afraid that it can lead to hiding behind corner/into buildings with grenades and SMGs and waiting for all of them to just come and die in my interrupt/mined corridor combo after I lure them with a single shot.into the air.

 

That's assuming that there is a building for your party to hide in, a building that doesn't have explosive barrels in the back, or multiple points of entry, and it's not rigged to explode when you come in, that the enemies don't have engineers of their own who can easily see your mines and booby-traps etc.

 

Sure they might come and die, or they might run to specific waypoints, go prone, load AP rounds and start longbursting your hiding place, or run away, hide and wait for you to come to them.

 

I keep those exploits in mind when putting various encounters together.

________________________________________________________________

(to be continued)

 

~Blunter~

[Fishmachine]

I am not making sneaking 'harder' - I am considering removing the possibility of hiding and sneaking in broad daylight right in front of the enemies undetected (similar to what Shade could do at higher levels) by allowing some of them to spot you. I found that ability absurd... didn't you?

 

Actually, any NPC class was somewhat OP in higher tiers.

The problem with scout is that he usually works alone deep into enemy positions. Without his abilities to sneak-in undetected there's simply nothing that other classes won't do better.

 

- Some pure (no throwing) melee weapons (or most of them) need to have higher stats (how many Katana hits are needed to kill somebody?). Except the ones we need for subduing (Billy Club, Black Jack), of course (to avoid killing...).

 

That can lead to OP melee syndrome, known from many games, when one hit with rusty frying has power comparable to 122mm howitzer shell.

 

Local scripts should control how alarmed some/ all enemies are on any given map.

If you've been spotted >> boost to enemy 'Spot'. They'll be actively looking for you.

if you stay hidden and quiet >> no boost...., etc.

 

That's actually quite interesting idea, if it can be implemented.

 

Implementing subsonic ammo doesn't necessarily mean a 'decrease'. It could stay the same (or even increase) it all depends on that ammo's parameters... One thing that would change - that those weapons would not be able to use regular ammo of the same caliber.

 

Do we really need a backpack full of different kinds of ammo?

And yes, the supressors still work for supersonic ammo - they still muffle the weapon and reduce flash, but not the sound of the supersonic projectile. So it's harder to determine the point of origin, but the bullets can be heard cracking and wizzing through the air.

As of WW2 era supressed guns - they were using regular ammo. .45 ACP (De Lisle Carbine) or .32ACP (Welrod) were already subsonic. The Sten for example had barrel with slits to lower muzzle velocity of 9mm Parabellum round.

There is a whole range of how 'loud' (heard by AI) a weapon could be. Currently, doing a longburst from a 'Sten III silenced' some 8-10 game tiles away from an AI produces no reaction from them as long as we are not shooting in their direction. How is increasing it to ~15 tiles or reducing it to 5, for example, going to make it "useless"?

I'm just afraid that with harder sneaking and nerfed supression, there will be no point in using silenced weapons at all, especially those with limited range (pistols, SMGs), as they lack one-shot-kill capability, if you're gonna get detected and fired at in the same round, then what's the sense of using silenced weapon?

 

Actually all non-silenced weapons were somewhat silenced in vanilla S^3. Did you notice how opening fire from non-silenced weapons wasn't 'perceived' by some enemies a few houses away? They'd just stand and 'smoke' (Calm AI state)... You didn't see a problem with that?

That's why I changed that.

 

That's a good point, but the implementation needs to take account of game mechanics and limitations.

If you know how to make it good, I'll be more than happy

 

That's assuming that there is a building for your party to hide in, a building that doesn't have explosive barrels in the back, or multiple points of entry, and it's not rigged to explode when you come in, that the enemies don't have engineers of their own who can easily see your mines and booby-traps etc.

 

Sure they might come and die, or they might run to specific waypoints, go prone, load AP rounds and start longbursting your hiding place, or run away, hide and wait for you to come to them.

 

I keep those exploits in mind when putting various encounters together.

 

That's good to hear

It looks like an immense amount of work from what you're doing.

[tofudog]

This is about what I wanted to trigger with my previous post. Wild debate for the win.

 

Within the constraints of the game engine we are always compromising - playability on one side, realism on the other.

 

In this light I would take a new look at the range brackets.

Subsonic Mauser still had an effective range of 300 Meters, far more than the biggest map I have seen to date and a machinegun would dominate half a mile or more (wiki gives the MG 42s effective firing range as 1000m) while an experienced sniper might reliably kill at a full mile.

Pistols are less of an issue, but their range is still compressed a lot.

So how troublesome is that? Until we introduced this realism debate I was not bothered very much, so it seems the original range brackets were close to what I expected.

Along came the grenade throwing range changes. Now grenades have an effective range comparable or better than pistols and SMGs and that is too much of a good thing I would say (Also those big 2x3 grenades were originally designed as anti-tank grenades, so an increase in penetration to equal the PWM might be in order).

The danger of friendly fire is something I would expect with them ´nades. A frag throws shrapnel that can kill at 30 Meters or more after all.

So under the "compressed range" aspect I would lobby for a reduction of current throwing ranges.

Compressed range might also play into the hearing and seeing range debate.

 

Another idea I came up with, while reading fishmachine´s post is the possibility of off-map reinforcements, or the proper authorities showing up when using full power weapons. This would be scenario dependent and warned in the briefing "Bring mufflers or expect the Polizei within 9 turns or something" (H&S has a scenario where you have to take out a terrorist base under the nose of a bundle of policemen). Of course the opposition could also trigger this clock.

 

 

The other issue is morale.

I had an idea a few days ago. Would it be possible to attach a zero damage effect, that does AP-reduction criticals to burst fire or grenades?

(This is why I am looking around for an old laptop to set up an XP-system. There is a lot of work to be done on the mod and here I come with my half-baked ideas for you to implement.)

With an area of effect this could be a nice simulation of "MG 42! We are pinned!".

This also would play well into the "resist critical" perks for especially courageous soldiers.

 

@ Blunter - yes, with weaker propellant charges surplus ammo should imo also have slightly less penetration. About half the damage reduction as a ballpark figure - so at 10% less damage I would expect 5% less penetration.

 

The flip side is AP-ammunition. I cant see a lot less damage on soft targets. Rifle-ammo already penetrates bodies (with negligible deformation I would expect, totally unlike HP, which would expend its full energy in the first target).

Is body armor in the game related to penetration or is it a flat damage reducer?

 

Back to stealth - in my setup the scout has made way for a second sniper or a third soldier, because he is obsolete already.

With 2 snipers one can spot for the other and remain in hiding, until the situation changes and they switch roles. How can a scout match that?

Getting in close for a Melee-kill is a lot harder than sniping in most situations and for the rest a soldier perked for Vanguard (Level 7 needed) is the better choice - in my opinion (The second soldier replaces a dedicated grenadier, because with the new throwing ranges any medic can effectively use grenades).

 

I would also advise caution, when introducing new classes (unless you go for replacements), because there is nothing I see atm that the original engineer does better than the saboteur while the saboteur totally whips the engineer in combat (judging by the perk tree).

With your cross-class system idea (2 points for 1 perk) there is a credible cost for stealing somebody else´s thunder, while also prolonging the useful leveling life of the classes. I like that path better as of now.

 

Also thanks for the look at "Fritz Civilian" - though the comparison I had in mind was a fresh soldier vs one who had survived years of frontline combat, dodged in the ditches, meleed in the mud, totalled tanks and murdered machinegunners, all before breakfast.

 

P.S. Found Shade. Nice Map. Very nice opportunity to train housecleaning skills.

[Lt.Havoc]

The grenade range increase, or better making the grenade lighter was something I wanted to see simply for the fact that the way grenades worked in S2 and S3 vanilla made no sense. Even if you had a strong character that was also a grenadier you could not throw the grenades very far, nor could you toss them over walls or fences, you had to get close to the enemy to use them and that made no sense. While thrown grenades have a limited range, a trained soldier should be able to throw the grenades at least several meters or over an obstacle without an issue. I think the grenade range is fine when you consider that the enemy can now throw the grenade just as far.

 

I recall seeing Metal Canyon play S2 at both Allies and Axis side and always ran into the issue with the grenades not being able to be thrown far enough and it could lead to some frustration and I REALLY wanted to avoid this. I also dont think it makes the game unbalance or anything and I did purpose to work on weapons damage and ranges but Blunter told me that it would be insane to edit all of it and make it all balanced as well, so reducing the grenade weight was the only thing we changed weapon wise back then.

 

Also about realism: we should keep in mind that we talk about a game or mod here that should have a war movie kind of feel to it, so we can only go so far with realism. I think that as long as it makes sense in-universe, its fine.

[Fireman]

Your suggested Saboteur is something I've tried to create myself as an engineer (which didn't work out, because it missed certain skills).

 

However the current build of Saboteur might be a bit too big of a mixup, I consider a Saboteur to be a combination of Grenadier/Engineer (maybe Soldier a bit as well, but some Soldier perks are also implemented into the Grenadier perk tree). I'd personally remove the Night Hunt, Night Vision and Increase Vision Range and some of the more advanced Soldier perks and add in the advanced Grenadier perks; Fast Throw, Good Throw from any position, A saboteur would have an extremely high skill with explosives, but unfortunately that isn't a seperate skill and with explosives being mainly useless so far (except for setting traps) it would be better if the throwing skills would go up.

 

Another combination I thought of was a combination of the Scout and the Engineer/Medic, functioning as a Spy really (or Undercover Agent, whatever you want to make of it). This character could also have traits which increase effectiveness of a silencer and increase hiding and sneaking to be more like in the original (which would please the people who actually want to play sneaky).

 

The Spy would be mostly useful for his skills (Medicine/Engineering/Scouting) and not as much for his combat abilities (supporting mainly close-range pistol and melee fights).

 

Note that I know nothing about the limitations of what you're working on, I'm just throwing stuff out there (being mainly influenced by MMO's and RPG's).

 

I had an idea a few days ago. Would it be possible to attach a zero damage effect, that does AP-reduction criticals to burst fire or grenades?

(This is why I am looking around for an old laptop to set up an XP-system. There is a lot of work to be done on the mod and here I come with my half-baked ideas for you to implement.)

 

Omerta; City of Gangsters used a morale meter where hits or special abilities decreased the AP of the opponent, it was pretty fun to use that. Adds another tactical dimension as well.

 

I'm all for new classes if they can be implemented, but as tofu said it's all about balance around the stats/traits and not writing off any individual classes. If you make a combination of two or more classes the highest skill of both classes should always be lower on the new class (since it's a combo-class).