A Post-Nuclear Mod for S3 (Sentinels)

[Lt.Havoc]

Fishmachine your link isnt working. Also, I dont think that the P90 round (5.8x28mm) is really a pistol round when you consider that it was created to fill the gap between pistols and rifles and create a new type of weapon, the Personal Defense Weapon. The idea behind the P90 and the HK MP7 is to give forces that are not fighting in the front lines a weapon they can use to defend themselves with.

 

In the past, you would have given them 9mm SMGs to do the job, but the 9mm round does not have the range or stopping power to do something against soldiers in body armor or attackers armed with rifles etc. The P90 and the MP7 are both often put in the SMG category, even if the ammo fired from it gives it greater range and stopping power then a regular SMG.

 

As for firing prone: trained soldiers dont have a issue firing their weapon prone, it even allows for great accuracy because of the way you use your forearm and elbow to balance out the weapon, not to mention you can use "natural bi pods" in forms of stones, rocks, fallen trees, etc. Of course for a unskilled shooter it is really awkward to fire a rifle or SMG prone, specially seeing how the curved mags of most rifles and the position of the sights can make it difficult to keep a balance.

[Fishmachine]

Fishmachine your link isnt working.

 

Works for me.

 

 

The Thompson gun was later demonstrated at the National Rifle Association meeting at Bisley on 11^th July 1921. It was described by Major Hardcastle – probably the greatest living authority on small arms – in his report of the Bisley meeting of 1921 “On 11^th July 1921 there was a public demonstration of the Thompson sub-machine gun. The firm asked for a marksman to fir the pistol prone with automatic firing of the 100 round magazine at 200 yards. Sergeant A. G. Fulton, DCM, assistant foreman at the CIA range, volunteered and after a few trial shots by single fire he started automatic fire and hot or nearly hit the 200 yard target for the whole magazine. Some hundred people saw him do it. Without the prone position the full automatic firing is very erratic and dangerous”.

 

 

 

Also, I dont think that the P90 round (5.8x28mm) is really a pistol round when you consider that it was created to fill the gap between pistols and rifles and create a new type of weapon, the Personal Defense Weapon. The idea behind the P90 and the HK MP7 is to give forces that are not fighting in the front lines a weapon they can use to defend themselves with. In the past, you would have given them 9mm SMGs to do the job, but the 9mm round does not have the range or stopping power to do something against soldiers in body armor or attackers armed with rifles etc. The P90 and the MP7 are both often put in the SMG category, even if the ammo fired from it gives it greater range and stopping power then a regular SMG.

 

Naaw, the 5.7x28 is really is a pistol round. A special purpose, but still.

It's designed to defeat basic body armor but it's not more effective (if not less) against unarmored targets than 9x19 Parabellum. In terms of kinetic energy it's near identical to 9x19, way lower than any intermediate round not even mentioning full-size rifle load.

It's actually quite similar to soviet WW2 era 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol round that got abandoned due to overpenetration and lack of stopping power, but now it makes a comeback in the hands of criminals fighting against body-armored police, so it's not that new of an idea, just more sophisticated. Still, not a new category of a round.

 

As for firing prone: trained soldiers dont have a issue firing their weapon prone, it even allows for great accuracy because of the way you use your forearm and elbow to balance out the weapon, not to mention you can use "natural bi pods" in forms of stones, rocks, fallen trees, etc. Of course for a unskilled shooter it is really awkward to fire a rifle or SMG prone, specially seeing how the curved mags of most rifles and the position of the sights can make it difficult to keep a balance.

 

That's what I can concur.

[Okim]

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/amr.jpg

 

15mm Anti-material rifle in comaprison to basic 6mm precision rifle. This is the largest man-portable gun in the mod.

[Okim]

In the 0.2 version (which is a bit delayed for now) you will no longer get AI-controlled ShelSec allies. Instead a player will get two random ShelSec squadmates under his control if he has just his main char in the party. These soldiers will consist of one random trooper (rifle, ar, smg or shotgun) and a random specialist (mg, sniper, grenade launcher, engineer, medic). With each block (selectable missions) you`ll get an extra trooper to your squad and all types will get better equipment.

 

This provides a player with two different choices - invest in his main char (skills, better and more expensive equipment, more valuable expendables like grenades etc) and get ShelSec allies or invest in his squad.

 

I`ve also reworked the third mission making bandits attack in waves and providing only one AI controlled ally - farm elder with 20ga double shotgun. The main objective is to protect the farmers and clear the area. The secondary objectives are to ensure that farm elder is alive and no farmer is killed (elder will reward you in any case if he is alive, but if no farmer was killed during the mission - the reward is a unique gun).

[Okim]

7.7mm Semi-Auto Rifle (with sniper scope):

 

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/7sar.jpg

 

This rifle is fast-to-fire precision weapon for powerful 7.7 round. With AP ammo it can damage Power Suits (though damage is 2-7 points per hit - it is still something when you get no proper AP weapon). Rifle uses standard 7.7mm AR clips (18 rounds) and can burst fire (2 shots).

[Okim]

Well, i`ve made a large 'all-guns-in-one' kind of image. Take a look at weapons that are already in the mod (pic shows just one variant per gun):

 

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/allguns.jpg

 

From left to right:

 

6mm AR, 7mm AR and bulp-up 9mm Carbine. Plasma pistol (with combat scope), laser pistol, rifle and sniper rifle. 15mm Anti-Material Rifle (with scope).

 

7mm Hunting, Combat and Semi-Auto bulp-up rifle. 6mm Precision rifle and 9mm Tactical Rifle. Blast and frag grenades.

 

6mm and 7mm machineguns. 42mm grenade launcher and its larger version for 3 grenades.

 

9mm and 10mm various submachineguns. 9mm compact pistol, autopistol and 10mm pistol with tactical laser. 7mm sawn-off rifle, 10mm dual pistol and 12mm revolver. And the last set of guns consists of 10ga and 20ga shotguns.

[Ichthyic]

I'm playing your revision right now. chose an engineer with focus on pistols.

 

is there any place that documents the info that scrolls across your screen the first time you enter the armory?

 

what do the modifcations do, for example. would be good to have a text file with that info in it somewhere.

 

edit: nevermind, duh, it's in the journal

[Ichthyic]

I played up through mission 3. quite a bit tougher than the original game, but I like it. It seems you changed how turns work, or gave everyone very high interupt rates? that third mission took 5 minutes before I even got to move! really gave a nice impression of a big firefight in progress.

 

I like the weapon customization system, though I don't see why you only get to mod your gun once? or is there a guy later who will add/remove mods?

 

overall, I really like the direction you are going with this; even the global map fits right in with the theme you are building. all the visual details look quite nice too.

 

my only nagging complaing so far is the frequent and egregious spelling errors and typos throughout all of the dialogue. How about even running a simple spell checker on the text files before importing them into your database?

 

oh, one question: it implies there is a new bandit mission after mission 3, but the mission choices are what you would see in the vanilla game, and no new area opens up for exploration on the global map.

 

is mission 4 not done yet?

[Okim]

From the OP:

 

What is in this version?

 

- global map representing a small area of devastated world

- chapter map for the initial missions and randoms

- 3 consequent campaign missions

- two random encounter regions (with 12 slightly different maps)

- retextured and remade mercs and player units (with new equipment)

- completely new weapons (around 50 different combinations)

- completely new grenades that can be thrown very far and deal greater damage that original

- weapon customisation system available in armory

- completely new shop inventory that has everything (mostly everything) that was made for the game

- military allies present at every missions

- a couple of new hints, journal entries and dialogues

- an attempt to recreate a devastated world of the post-nuclear future

 

 

As for the typos - if you send me a list of corrections - i`ll be glad to fix them. Mod will need someone to run the checks once its finished (or at least updated with more content).

 

Mission 3 is currently undergoing some major changes to make it a bit easier and much faster than it is now (no AI-controlled allies, bandits coming in waves, critical goal to protect civilians with several reward options and etc.).

 

Conversions. Each option requires a huge script to run some checks and triggers AND a single weapon model with attachment. That`s why you get just 1 option per gun (2 if you upgrade a silenced weapon). There might be an option to remove atachment later, but i see no reason to do that - you`ll eventually end up with tons of 'clean' guns to modify.

 

Oh, btw. I`ll need to make it possible somehow to transfer at least partial familiarity value to the modded gun... Don`t know yet how to do that as i fail to find the proper functions in scripts...

[LucaDena]

Hi,

Awesome mod. Great job.

I bought S3 just for your mod, I swear.

I played all 3 missions and had much fun with it.

I just wish the AI was more smart.

I kinda miss suppression too, but I guess I am a little too used to Jagged alliance 1.13.

Thanks for making this

[Okim]

I tried some tricks to implement suppression, but the limited amount of coding functions available does not allow to do that the way i want to...

[LucaDena]

Don't worry, the mod is great anyway.

 

ETA on new version?

[Okim]

I`m was a bit busy with preparations for local board gaming convention, so didn`t pay much attention to the mod.

 

I`ll need a week or so to make 4 new missions, some randoms and unique locations. for the mod. Be patient

[Okim]

A small progress update.

 

These are the guns i`ve added and tested for the past month:

 

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/SGs.jpg

 

From top to bottom:

 

- 10ga Combat Shotgun with its CS, SIL and CS+SIL versions. Yes, this shotgun can use silencers AND perform careful shots if properly upgraded. Combat Shotgun is using clips which gives it two advantages over other SGs - fast reload times and fast snap shots (no need to pump the shells into barrel).

 

- 20ga Hi-Cap Shotgun and its smaller version. An ability to fire 20 pellets per shot makes this shotgun (with ammo capacity of 8 shots) an extremely devastating close-combat weapon. However, reloading it takes 45 AP which kinda limits it for some soldiers to be used for short encounters...

 

Next guns:

 

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/SMGs.jpg

 

Here you can see a Compact 10mm SMG with a very familiar shape (that`s woh i see Fallout 10mm SMG). Its fast and easy to use, can fire in single and burst modes, but has no attachments.

 

Other 3 SMGs are 9mm Hi-Cap SMGs - reliable weapons with a great ammo capacity. This is the only SMG that has Combat Scope upgrade. Can perform long bursts to better implements its large clip size.

 

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Campaign is currently stalled as i somewhat lost my inspiration for it. I hope that this is a temporal issue...

[LucaDena]

nice, really nice, I love your stile. Do you need help with the campaign?

[Okim]

I`ll need someone to read and possibly edit all the texts. Other than that i see no other way how anyone can help with campaign. Mod files can`t be so easily transferred and edited by several modders.

[LucaDena]

yes no problem, just explain me what you need done (and a little how to do it) and I will be glad to help

[Ecthel013]

I can help out with reviewing/editing the texts when time permits, if you'd like.

[Okim]

Good to know, guys. Thanks!

 

I need to release a new version with updated texts so that you could work with them.

[Okim]

A mission that i`m currently working on:

 

https://lordsofthestars.com/other/S3/4-01.jpg

 

That`s a tech-recovery mission in mutant-controlled territory (meaning that it will require a high-level engineer). It is two-stage with a small underground compound and its own powerful enemies guarding it.

[Ichthyic]

From the OP:

 

 

 

 

As for the typos - if you send me a list of corrections - i`ll be glad to fix them. Mod will need someone to run the checks once its finished (or at least updated with more content).

 

Mission 3 is currently undergoing some major changes to make it a bit easier and much faster than it is now (no AI-controlled allies, bandits coming in waves, critical goal to protect civilians with several reward options and etc.).

 

Conversions. Each option requires a huge script to run some checks and triggers AND a single weapon model with attachment. That`s why you get just 1 option per gun (2 if you upgrade a silenced weapon). There might be an option to remove atachment later, but i see no reason to do that - you`ll eventually end up with tons of 'clean' guns to modify.

 

Oh, btw. I`ll need to make it possible somehow to transfer at least partial familiarity value to the modded gun... Don`t know yet how to do that as i fail to find the proper functions in scripts...

 

I'd be happy to, but it would be so much easier if you just sent me even a giant text file with the dialogue in it. formatted... so much the better, but even just blocks of text with punctuation will work.

 

fisheyephotosAThotmailDOTcom

 

cheers.

[Alfred]

Hello everyone,

 

awesome work till the point just awesome.

 

Just a few points (just my opinion, has not to reflect the truth;))

 

Thank you for the shotguns - it was a missing part in the vanilla. And the 100 magazines at shotguns... confusing for 3 minutes but then...

Havent tested the 40mm nadelauncher yet but i will do soon - was also a thing that was just missing.

 

The Gunsmith is a part that was just missing before too, and its very well done and easy to understand,

just one thing i dont fully understand is the removal of "snapshot" with mounted sniperscope.

 

I understand "snapshot" more as "gunner`s job" than "gear´s job" meaning "aiming rough over the barrel".

(to explain what i mean with "gunners job": imagine a dual-barrel shotgun that has 2 triggers the gun does not support it to fire both with one trigger but you can pull both at once.)

A few scoped rifles in history (not purebred sniperrifles) had even usable iron sights, either by a "tunnel" under the scope (like K98, MN1891 just to call 2 exaples)

or a sidemounted scope (Ariskana Type 99).

 

Not only few modern rifles follow this tradition for exaple the G36E (export - no collaminator) where the (unadjustable) ironsights of the carrying handle can be used. There are optics (removable) with either ironsights or even a collaminator on top too.

For example SUSAT:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/8/8b/SUSAT.jpg/200px-SUSAT.jpg

or a backpack variant: https://www.thefirear...-eotech-sights/

Same theme for SMGs, MGs and ARs with only "long burst" firemode, yes it CAN be "gear´s job" but in my opinion its more "gunner´s job".

 

My thought is that in a PN scenario high tech has cut down supplies (including ammo), if the storage is empty its empty.

(and all guns without ammo can be used as fencing post)

 

And the quartermaster will beat you up if u bring him every day 1 million cartridges to refill just because you cant control your triggerfinger;).

Pls dont get me wrong, i dont say "remove ammo from the game"

I try to say "let me be thriftily with the ammo - idk when and where i can get more"

 

Collaminators for MGs would be nice too - they are not uncommon in special for LMG/CQB variants (shorter barrel, forewardgrip aso.)

There are some scoped MGs on bipod too (highmarks, crude dot image)

Example: https://www.thefirear...gun-ammunition/

 

Regarding "no prone bonus": i think its pretty much ok as long it is not penalised.

Even if there are foreward grips with included bipods inside (none to "go in" like MG bipods just for resting the gun like sniperrifle ones).

Exaple for those that cant imagine what iam talking about: https://www.thefirear...16-and-fn-scar/

Anyway every (trained) gunner gets benefits from a prone stance and if its just that the recoil is catched from the whole body and not only from the shoulder.

This results at last in less bulletspray.

You can rest your gun very well for exaple on your backpack (if u have one) in my opinion this is much better than any AR bipod

 

Prone may be problematic with crappy magazine/magazine slot design, with this i agree.

Doesnt matter much in S³ by the "Good shot from any pose" perk.

 

No "careful shot" without scope is pretty much ok too.

 

I like the auxillarytroopers very much - very helpful (and if only as bulletmagnet;)) in the early missions where you just dont have the cash for a own squad.

 

Regarding suppressive fire:

 

Suppressive fire is a nice idea wich i read often but i dont think the engine will support it.

 

How to tell for exaple a MG that its bullets hit critical on AP even or IF they dont hit the target itself?

 

I think very hard to realise, if not it would be already there.

 

Should be a seperate project in my opinion.

 

 

Im very sure u got tons of ideas for guns in your mind - let me add one more:

What about a gun that fires caseless ammo? (maybe u already have this with the 6mm series?!)

https://en.wikipedia....less_ammunition - general info

https://en.wikipedia....ki/Voere_VEC-91 - 6mm example

 

Tiny bugs i found so far:

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/855/po1c.jpg

 

 

Pls keep it running - good mods keep games alive

Great work.

 

PS: english is not my native so i may lack a bit in grammar and/or form - i just try to get to the point.

I post links instead of images to keep the post short.

The links are not meant advertisement - its just what i found instant.

[Okim]

Thanks for your feedback. Its pretty thorough.

 

Regarding snapshots removal - its only for guns with sniper scopes. Not SUSAT or ACOG o other 3-4X combat scopes, but those real sniper scopes with 10x and higher magnification. Such scopes do not work well with fast shots as you have to at least find your target in it. That`s where you get an aimed shot mode as a minimal requirement to fire it.

 

Snap shot for such guns in APN is granted by tac lasers (9mm Tactical Rifle) and open iron sights (7mm Unique Rifle). There are some such guns in the mod already and will be more. Even a full-mode AR (able to fire in all 6 modes) is planned to be used in the mod (BTW - its going to be caseless with extremely low recoil).

 

----

 

SMGs and MGs are planned to use red dots and combat scopes as any other guns in the mod (hell, i already have a shotgun with this scope type). There will be MGs with single fire mods, so scopes will fit pretty well here.

 

----

 

As for long vs short burst mode - i insist for using the last only for guns capable of controlled 2-3 shot bursts. The reason is simple - you as a player have full control of how long you wish your long burst to last - just hit a large red 'cancel' button and cut the burst whenever you wish. And not all guns in the modern world can operate in both modes (example is AKM vs Abakan or M16A3 agains M16A4).

 

----

 

Prone penalty was a ban idea. I`ve already set it to be a bonus. A small one, but still a bonus.

 

I`ve also reworked weapon types removing / combining some of them. The new list looks like this:

 

- handguns (all pistols, revolvers, heavy pistols etc).

- close combat weapons (shotguns, smgs some rifles).

- close combat weapons - 1 handed (compact smgs, sawn-off shotguns etc.). This one will probably end up as handguns as they have similar purpose actually (and differ only by bonuses and AP costs).

- assault weapons (assault rifles, assault machineguns, some heavy shotguns).

- precision weapons (bolt-action rifles, semi-automatic rifles, heavy sniper rifles).

- heavy weapons (machineguns mainly).

- launchers and others.

 

Ah, there are no longer such things as 20ga shotguns. All SGs in the mod now fire 10 porjectiles per shot (meaning that they are all 10ga). However - there is a monstrousity that can simultaneously fire two shots with 10 pellets each (20 in total).

 

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Suppression fire is impossible without creating a script for ALL maps in the game. That`s not what i really wish even to try doing. It would be great though...

 

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Didn`t get what that bug is actually about. Can you elaborate please?

 

----

 

Speaking of allied troops - they now join you if you have no teammates at all. So you can invest in your hero and hope to get some good allies (which will progress with you) or invest in your party.

 

----

 

Ammo. Its a problem in the game. You can`t just remove ammo from stores - there will always be the default ammo for the gun when you sell it.

 

I`ve made all basic ammo to simupate 'surplus' one (having some pretty basic stats) and made AP and JHP ammo for most of the calibers. These can be forced to be very scarse and valuable. Plans are to bring in special ammo type for some calibers.

 

The problem is that you don`t actually need AP ammo in the game.

[Alfred]

Hi again, the internets have ate my reply - so the "short" version.

 

Regarding snapshots removal - its only for guns with sniper scopes. Not SUSAT or ACOG o other 3-4X combat scopes, but those real sniper scopes with 10x and higher magnification. Such scopes do not work well with fast shots as you have to at least find your target in it. That`s where you get an aimed shot mode as a minimal requirement to fire it.

Thats why i wrote "aiming rough over the barrel".

But you are right its not a real disadvantage not to have snap at a sniper.

I took the SUSAT as example because i wasnt able to find something better in a short amount of time.

K98 had a 6x in some editions also the SVT-40 - both with open iron sights Ariskana type 99 had 4x and M1903 8x but no iron sights.

The spotter came later afaik this was times where snipers worked often alone. (n.t.)

 

SMGs and MGs are planned to use red dots and combat scopes as any other guns in the mod (hell, i already have a shotgun with this scope type). There will be MGs with single fire mods, so scopes will fit pretty well here.

Yes and its awesome - looking forward for more multiupgrade guns.

Also discovered a 10mm SMG with 4 upgrades at total.

 

As for long vs short burst mode - i insist for using the last only for guns capable of controlled 2-3 shot bursts. The reason is simple - you as a player have full control of how long you wish your long burst to last - just hit a large red 'cancel' button and cut the burst whenever you wish.

I forgot about it - shame on me. Played yesterday just short to test the mod a bit after half a year of abstinence.

The NPCs cant - so they use up "my" ammo;)

 

And not all guns in the modern world can operate in both modes (example is AKM vs Abakan or M16A3 agains M16A4).

Thats true but no match for a gunsmith (a bit with the file here a bit with the screwdriver there... e viola - full auto;))

Depends on model, different companies build modular meanwhile, but i start to digress again.

 

Suppression fire is impossible without creating a script for ALL maps in the game. That`s not what i really wish even to try doing. It would be great though...

Till this point all characters are coldblooded battledogs that dont care much about incoming fire.

I dont think its really needed. Again just my opinion.

 

Didn`t get what that bug is actually about. Can you elaborate please?

 

With pleasure.

1st is the dialoge with the gunsmith. At guns with only 1 upgradefunction like the Huntingrifle there is:

Headline with offer - ok

1. option: yes i wish to make this... -ok

2. option: Attach a XX for XX - function is exit - so it should be "nothing for now" or similar.

 

2nd is the 7mm sniper which has no own clips and uses 5er strips because of this - idk if you want it this way, if its no prob i just noticed it.

 

3rd is a 10rnd 6mm clip that is called "6x40mm 8-round rifle clip" the gun is 10 rnd the mag is 10 rnd just the name is 8 rnd.

 

Ammo. Its a problem in the game. You can`t just remove ammo from stores - there will always be the default ammo for the gun when you sell it.

 

I`ve made all basic ammo to simupate 'surplus' one (having some pretty basic stats) and made AP and JHP ammo for most of the calibers. These can be forced to be very scarse and valuable. Plans are to bring in special ammo type for some calibers.

 

The problem is that you don`t actually need AP ammo in the game.

In my opinion its pretty much ok - S³ was not made as survival.

And NPCs need huge ammounts of ammo because they shoot like... idk what.

Not good but much.

Most times its possible to get more than enough ammo in the field.

In vanilla i only buy the special stuff like JHP - everything else is looted.

Too expensive anyway^^

AP would be nice for wall penetration in what the standard 6mm just fails.

If u have it - bring it on we will see how to use it.

Atm is just the testfield a bit small.

 

Had a look at the 42mm nadelauncher - pretty sweet, very nice for medic training if the gunner messes it.

Joke over - its very acurate even in snap i get a solid hit if there are no obstacles.

[Azt8g]

Hi Okim, first of all Thank you for keeping S3 alive with you mod!!!

Is there anyway I can help?