Heavies. Why?

[McNtr]

Does anyone else think the new XComs heavies are the pendant of the original's Floaters?

 

To me, every other class looks so much better and stronger....

 

The Assault - I'm really fond of these, they have to get up close but they have quite a punch. A pair of these can easily kill a sectopod with close range rapid fire. On near every level they get great abilities to help with offense or defense. Nothing like two Assaults with Close Combat Specialist on guard beside a door - had a whole trio of Chryssalids killed on the alien turn once during a terror mission.

 

The Sniper - Awesome too. While there are Ranks where the promotion gets you kind of rubbish/not so good abilities (Sergeant/Lieutenant) they have some of the most powerful ones, too. Squad Sight/in the Zone combo can mop up everything up to mutons.

 

The Support - while not so great for killing things, they are fast, they can heal, and carry two pieces of equipment. Their smoke grenade also helps, especially nice when you take the combat drug variant and want to play with PSI or defend against these pesty Etherals.

 

And then the Heavy... His aim is soo bad, he can't hit a thing. He's slow and that rocket so short ranged that he can't even fire it most of the time. And the skills?

 

The rocket - see above

Bullet swarm - miss twice as often / Halo targetting - now this is okay

Shredder - yet another rocket you can't fire / Suppression - can be done by Supports

HEAT Ammo - would be nice, if they aim to actually HIT anything

 

The rest of the abilities are on the okay side, though I have quite a hard time to decide which ones I should take. Might be I just don't play the Heavy right, but when I look at the other classes they are just so much better in my eyes. Since I also tend to hesitate to blow things up in Ufos, I found myself to use 2 of each other classes and leave the Heavy at home.

[Sorbicol]

Heavies ate my "front line" troops to be honest. They hold the line while assaults flank, supports - well support - and snipers hold back and get the head shots in. Their rockets I use for emergencies, destroying cover (which a lot of people seem to forget about) and suppression. I find heat ammo to be absolutely critical for taking down Cyberdisks too.

 

I've had no issues with them hitting anything too - in fact I often find them to be the most accurate of my close range troops. You just have to give a bit of thought to lanes of fire if you think missiles are going to be required. There aren't that many maps where I find I can't hit something with a missile if I really need to.

 

So basically I think I disagree. What difficultly level are you playing on?

[7h30n]

Hmm, I always bring 2 Heavies with me on a mission. I guess I prefer explosive solutions

On the other hand I think Assaults are useless. Shotguns are so short ranged you need to come up close and personal which is carries a great risk of activating another spawn or 2 and that comes at a too great cost.

 

I keep one Assault just for finishing off the last enemy with Run 'n Gun up to his face and rapid firing that bugger!

 

 

Just finished a UFO crashed mission by shooting 2 rockets inside a UFO to open up my line of fire for the sniper because what was inside the UFO was to dangerous to be fought head on. Love my heavies! One of them is even fully developed psi soldier and hits 100% with psi attacks which is a nice sub for his primary attack.

[AlanatXcomHQ]

A solid tactic I have is to always bring 2 heavies, 2 medics and 2 snipers and then pair off into 2 groups of 3 (1 Heavy, 1 Medic and 1 Sniper). Assaults are practically useless and I don't usually see a point in using them to be honest.

[Sunflash]

Gotta disagree with ya, I love my heavy; but not for rockets(btw, My rockets are hitting that 90% chance pretty nicely, don't know what you're talking about).

 

Bullet Swarm vs Holo-target is always a hard choice. Sure, the Heavies tend to have horrible long-to-mid range accuracy, but being able to shoot then supress in the same round is pretty nice. Personally I prefer Holo-target since it works even if you miss the target; but to each their own.

 

Regardless of those options, Supression is the way to go for a single heavy. Shredder is nice, but only if you've got a second heavy to take the supression line. Why? Holo target, for starters, works with supression. Anything supressed(short of beserkers) will generally be smart enough to not try to move, and the -30 aim is pretty nice. Also, the supression effect is never dodgeable or misses or anything. You decide to supress someone, they're supressed, end of story.

 

Heat ammo is pretty cool, though I tend to use rapid reaction more than heat simply because I prefer more chances to shoot things. Either one of these will work okay.

 

However, Captain rank's Danger Zone is the pay off point. Suddenly your Supression is affecting +2 tiles, which can usually end up covering at least two different aliens. That's two aliens with the -30 penalty to Aim.

 

Keep cracking to Mayhem at Colonel level, and suddenly you've got the capstone. See, Mayhem adds 'bonus damage' to rockets /and supression/. This bonus damage stacks with the AoE effect of Danger zone, and Holotarget's bonus. This bonus damage isn't too much,but the damage does the same thign the actual supress effect does: It NEVER. EVER. MISSES. Combine Heat Ammo with a laser or plasma gun and supress a Cybersdisk when its little Drones are nearby it?Bam, the drones are dead.

 

Yes, Supports can use the basic supression(which I abuse so badly), but they don't get the +bonus to-hit for everyone else, or the expanded AoE for supression, OR the unavoidable damage of Mayhem.

 

 

 

This should all be read knowing that my preferred team is one Heavy, one Sniper, two Assaults, and two Supports. So I tend to buck the trend around here, apparently.

[NoXTheRoXStaR]

2 Snipers, 2 Assualt, 1 Heavy, 1 Support, 1 Magic Bus.

[silencer_pl]

3 assaults, 1 sniper, 1 support, 1 heavy.

[Ki-tat Chung]

2 Snipers, 2 Assualt, 1 Heavy, 1 Support, 1 Magic Bus.

 

Ditto, minus the magic bus

 

Except right now I'm sitting at constant three rookies, and a rotating vet. Most of my squad keeps getting wiped out... gotta stop playing so aggressively, still not used to the change in difficulty moving up from normal

[ricardo440]

I thought heavies sucked my first play through. The second I loved them. Once I realised that Blaster Bombs can shoot around corners I was no longer scared of sectopods.

 

I give my heavies a SCOPE. suppresive fire works ok too. Usually take 1 on a mission, but increase it to 2 if Sectopods are listed on the enemies by the hyperwave scanner.

 

Think an etherial or sectopod is round the corner? Send in 2 blaster bombs first! It will also blow out all the walls so everyone else can shoot too without moving.

[Alan]

Once I realised that Blaster Bombs can shoot around corners I was no longer scared of sectopods.

*snip*

I give my heavies a SCOPE.

*snip*

Think an etherial or sectopod is round the corner? Send in 2 blaster bombs first!

 

This is pretty much what I think heavies are for. Sure they can't hit the blind side of a barn (according to the ini files they get the leave accuracy boost per promotion), but when they've leveled up enough for heat ammo and burst fire, then you have a unit which with the right kit has the potential to dismantle any robotic unit in a single turn.

 

I usually play with 2 support, 2 assault, 1 heavy and 1 sniper, but I've started playing around with my squad selection lately, somewhat prompted by which ones haven't reached colonel yet, and so I've had some rather odd combinations.

 

I've played a couple of missions with 3 support, 2 snipers and 1 shiv... which kinda works, but I keep getting the feeling that the squad is somehow weaker. The supports make good sniper scouts with their plus three move (I wonder what would happen if I put them in skelleton suits with that's move bonus as well...), and are decent enough front line infantry when they have a good rifle... but they lack stopping power. If I run into a beserker, then I need all three supports to actually have a chance to down it, rather than the usual double-tap from an assault which I would have otherwise used.

[silencer_pl]

I am still wondering - HEAT ammo in plasma gun and laser gun. Will someone enlighten me how can it work ?

 

I am happy when my Heavy with bullet swarm kills that sectopod. I am really amazed with the damage.

[McNtr]

So basically I think I disagree. What difficultly level are you playing on?

 

I just finished it on Normal.

 

Gotta disagree with ya, I love my heavy; but not for rockets(btw, My rockets are hitting that 90% chance pretty nicely, don't know what you're talking about).

 

The problem is not the rocket missing - every rocket (and grenade) I shot/threw actually hit. The problem is, their range is simply too low - most of the time, I just cannot move the blast circle up to the alien. Combine that with the rather slow heavy (not quite sure if they are slower than say, a sniper, though) and add in the fact that they can't move when they want to fire a rocket, thats kind of bad.

 

Might be just my play style, but I tend to progress rather fast, most of the time going as far as possible without dashing.

[Sorbicol]

On classic rockets are essential for clearing out those pockets of 3 chrysalids scuttling towards your squad mate.

[Space Voyager]

And then the Heavy... His aim is soo bad, he can't hit a thing. He's slow and that rocket so short ranged that he can't even fire it most of the time.

 

In a way I feel your pain. Perhaps this is the reason I started equipping them with SCOPE... I felt that the increased accuracy adds more than a double grenade.

[FullAuto]

If they don't suit your play style, then I can see how you won't like them. I'm not especially fond of the Assault class, but they do have their uses.

 

Heavies suit the way I play because I tend to move incrementally, which means they can usually lay down plenty of reaction fire, and get rockets away on the next turn. Early on, they're absolutely indispensable for terror missions (rockets versus groups of aliens, especially Chryssalids and zombies). If your worry is accuracy, then SCOPEs and the Holo-Targeting perk work wonders. I'm finding them absolutely invaluable versus Sectopods on Classic and Impossible (second only to Snipers using Headshot) with the added bonus that a Shredder rocket plus HEAT perk means 8 damage and 1-2 Drones killed and 33% more damage from follow-up attacks.

 

Bullet Swarm is a great perk, it's a little limited early on but as soon as you have ammo conservation your heavies can go absolutely nuts and deal out two shots per turn for four turns (IIRC?) and there really isn't anything that can stand up to that kind of fire. The later perks, as Sunflash detailed, have great potential to ruin a lot of aliens' chances, even if it's primarily from a supporting fire role. When you're suppressing 2-3 muton elites, you're a happy powersuited bunny.

[Fishfins]

I usually have one Heavy per squad. Mine tend to get fairly abysmal hit chances, but Halo Targeting is a godsend if I run into a sectopod, berserker or aliens cowering behind cover. Rockets are handy for clearing away pesky drones or softening up cryssies.

 

Had a lot of fun giving one of my Heavies a heavy plasma, ghost armor and Bullet Swarm. Cloak him up, send him sprinting right next to an alien, then when the turn ends he has this unfair double-whammy that can cripple a sectopod.

[Ulzgoroth]

Heavies can be of mixed value...bullet storm and holo targetting either way can be really good, but even with a scope accuracy sometimes hurts. Though Bullet Storm is a real lifesaver when you find yourself closely engaged by more aliens than you have troopers...

 

However, they have almost all the best abilities for taking out big tough enemies. HEAT ammo and shredder rocket (and bullet storm or holo target) are all great against sectopods, where you desperately need to do vast amounts of damage very fast. (The one major mech-killer they don't offer is Disabling Shot of course.)

 

I've heard about people throwing around rockets to strip cover from aliens for easy killing, particularly with the help of an In The Zone sniper. I tend not to do that and to reserve my rockets as panic buttons and for big damage on big enemies, which of course means I take a lot of rockets home with me unfired.

[ricardo440]

in addition to sectopods etc... In my second play through the 2 heavies I took made the final room much much easier. Blaster Bombs for the win.

[Knan]

Hey, missing with a heavy plasma is also pretty good for taking out cover.

[Pete]

I hated Heavies first playthrough, but they are worth it when you have the Heavy Plasma and the Blaster Launcher, especially if you hand them a Scope and give them the extra rocket ability

 

I know you don't get fragments when you blow the enemy up, but by the time you have late game weapons it's less of an issue and if something's not going your way then blowing the enemy up is a satisfying fall-back plan sometimes.

 

My squad at present is 1 Sniper, 2 Heavies, 2 Support and 1 Assault (think he gets the Alloy Cannon, another neat gun).

 

It takes a while to work out certain class' strengths and weaknesses, but they are all generally pretty well-rounded and can be used effectively in different ways.

[Space Voyager]

I started a new Classic Ironman. I have two snipers, two supports, one assault, all the rest on the roster are heavies. A heavy after heavy... But lately this is saving my arse. A terror mission with two Cyberdiscs and a group of Chryssalids all at the same time, from two directions, all home in on my group at the landing site. The two heavies shred them to pieces, even the rookie lived through.

 

Rockets are just phenomenal, area effect and very good accuracy. Fragments? Tell Cyberdiscs I don't give a damn about that grenade. And Chryssalids... Well. https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/SpaceVoyager/Smiley/blowup6ba.gif

[NKF]

All the classes can be excellent when used right.

 

My first complete playthrough had me using 3~4 heavies (due to the distribution of the Gifted units). They rocked despite their low accuracy progression, which seriously isn't as bad as many make it out to be. SCOPE them up, Bullet Swarm, pretend you are an Assault and get up close (and maybe flank) with the help of Skeleton and later Ghost Armor, or at least use your sure-hit weapons like grenades, shredders and normal rocket/blaster bombs. Once you get the blaster launcher upgrade, you no longer have to set up line of sight, just minimum firing distance and not worry at all about closed doors. Then Psi Heavies... Merry Christmas.

 

Built right, they're monsters. At least, in a more spread-out sense when compared to a high critical Assault with an Alloy cannon.

 

Funnily enough, despite my general lean towards the explodey builds, the one solider that I decided to take the supression fire route started racking up more kills than my best heavy in 1/3rd of the number of missions. With only 1 rocket, most of the kills were done with ordinary attacks. I'd credit the SCOPE and lots of indoor fighting for that.

 

- NKF

[Hobbes]

The issue with heavies is choosing your mixture. My top Heavy on my current CI game has Bullet Swarm, Suppression, Danger Zone, HEAT Ammo and Mayhem. I wanted a unit packed for gun duels while keeping an antiarmor ability.

But her mate has Holo-Targeting, Shredder, Danger Zone, HEAT and Rocketeer. Both units are a good complement of one another to take down any large targets - the Holo guy marks it and removes cover while the Gunner can kill it afterwards.

And a Rocket with Danger Zone and Mayhem... well that's 9 damage (using plasma) over a large area, or 18 against Robotic targets, or 12 (if you have Blaster Launcher) or 24 against Robotic targets... (if 24 is possible, never saw it yet)

[Pete]

Oooh, hadn't thought about the possibility of 24 damage that way but it sounds like it should work given the skills and tech you chose.

[Hobbes]

Oooh, hadn't thought about the possibility of 24 damage that way but it sounds like it should work given the skills and tech you chose.

 

Unless there's a damage maximum, which is also something I'm looking to test.

 

EDIT: Just got a 16 damage hit on a Sectopod using a regular rocket. I'm starting to love the Suppress+HEAT+Mayhem+Danger Zone to deal with Sectopods - the Heavy advances, suppresses the Sectopod (6 points of damage right there) gives him a -30 Aim to miss its cannon fire and then shoots the Rocket on the next turn. And with Blaster Launcher it gets even better.

 

EDIT2: 24 Damage confirmed - Heavy + Suppression + Mayhem + HEAT + Blaster Launcher - this is the best anti-Sectopod weapon! First you suppress it and deal it 6 points of damage (plus getting rid of any close Drones) while restricting its Aim by 30%, then the Blaster Launcher finishes the Sectopod. And you only need 1 unit to do it! :D