Education

[Ivory]

im very interested in this and it woud help me greatly if i could get some views from people who have been/are stil in the system of education. Where does it begin? where most importantly dose it stop...or doesnt it stop ?

 

This is an education free for all, give me your oppinion...pretty please?

[Slaughter]

Not sure exactly what you want to know Ivory? If I like educating myself or not? And what my experience doing so is?

[NKF]

Just random thoughts about education eh? This is not going to escelate into another thread about religion? Hopefully not.

 

Hmm. Let's see. I think my eduction went roughly like so. While I was in school, I hated it and never wanted to go. Now that I've left school, I really miss it. You get so used to it, and some of the seemingly inane lessons finally start making sense. I suppose I can always continue my studies after I've built up some funds. There are many things I feel that even university fails to equip you for if all you seek is to obtain a degree of some sort. Many, many things. Ah well.

 

Education never stops. It starts... well, basically from the moment we are conceived till the day we die. We never stop learning, whether it be in a learning instituition or from the school of life itself.

 

Bleh, I'm not really into these sort of discussions not having mastered the art of patience, but hey, even a small effort is still an effort.

 

- NKF

[Bomb Bloke]

I learnt a lot in primary school. How to count, for example.

 

High school was a joke. A daycare center, basically.

 

College was where they started teaching useful stuff. For example, if you don't do your work, it's your own fault, and no one's going to pick up after you. That was never in the ciriculum, but people do a lot of growing up in college.

 

Once out of the early education system, you also learn a lot. Mostly stuff about people.

[FullAuto]

It's good and obviously necessary, but it bored me rigid.

[Ivory]

general ed stuff good!

 

ta nfk for your imput i o appricite it.

 

Im at uni, studying education (and theatre) and people experiences and thoughts re of real importance to me. i want to teach (cue the degree) but now im not o sure...is there a better way forward?? where are the major flaws in the system and how do we go about mending them...even if it is only in our own school, town, county...

 

keep the thoughts comming guys, i realy need and appriciate your help!!

 

[Slaughter]

You asked for it Ivory . Keep in mind that this is my opinions, not facts, and that this goes for Norwegian schools.

 

I am in my...oh boy...17th year of studies. After the 9 first years of studies (elementary school) that everyone in Norway has to do, I had another 3 years of general studies (high school). After that I did a bachelor in Computer Science, and now I am on my second year of a bachelor in Economy.

 

Anyway, the first 12 years of studies was fine. I never loved school, but always thought it was okay. I was a pretty average student I guess, possibly slightly above that. Looking back at those years, this is what I think.

 

Teachers are not good enough. There are so many people out there that are not suited for teaching. They have the knowledge, but lack the ability to use it. No pedagogic ability. It amazes me that they can't see it themselves! If you are useless as a teacher you should at least see it. But I guess it's the same as some people coming to the Idol auditions; None of their friends or family have had the guts to tell them that they have no talent and just cheered them on even if they sound like dogs howling. Another problem in Norway is that it's so hard to get people fired when they have been hired.

 

Regarding the courses I had over the first 12 years, some of it was good and some was bull. We did in fact have to remember when some of the "great" Norwegian authors was born!!! Kids that age hate those useless authors (I still do), and some fool think it's important to know by heart when they were born? In fact, several friends of mine rarely reads books, and I think part of the reason is the AWFUL books we had to read at the time. Having to read books for grown ups that you do not understand and are not interested in at any rate is such a waste when you're that young. I think these books killed any will in many of my friends to ever read again. And that's such a pity since a good book is so much better than a good movie.

 

So, after high school I could finally choose myself. I was interested in PC, so I chose computer science. I studied this for three years, got my bachelor degree, and liked it a lot. Problem with it was that spending so much time in front of the PC does bad things to your social intelligence (not that I spend less time in front of the PC now ), and since the computer industry was not doing too well in Norway when I finished I decided to do something else.

 

This made me start a bachelor in Economy. I'm on my second year, and can't say I like it much. But it is very important knowledge, so I force myself through it.

 

After 4.5 years of university (or similar) education I have come to learn that the problem with teachers is exactly the same there. Most of them have higher education than the ones in elementary and high school, but that doesn't help. Quite a few of them prefer to sit in their dark office working with some "research" project, and seem almost annoyed that they have to teach a little as well. Others are so educated that they can't put themselves to the level of their students, and thus speak over their head.

 

So why do we have so many useless teachers? Well, the fact that their salary is so low has something to do with it. More skilled people would teach if it paid what it should pay. The people that are to teach our kids have some of the lowest salaries in this country...how stupid are we? In the old days teachers was looked upon with respect and admiration. Now they are laughed at. I can't believe we are so stupid that we make jokes out of the people that are to educate our kids... *sigh*

 

Another problem with many teachers is that they have always been teachers. What do they know of how business works when they have never worked in it? There's actually a guy trying to teach me how to run a business that have never run one. I don't know if I'm to laugh or cry! It is better on my economy study than many other places, but still a problem.

 

When I studied computer science I attended several meetings with the leaders and teachers of my faculty as the class representative, and there I learnt the source of the "over educated teachers" problem. The school receives money for two things. The first one is courses that students pass. The second one is research. RESEARCH!!! Think about it. You start out learning programing and making web-sites with no previous knowledge required, and who is to teach you? A professor that the school hired not because of his great pedagogic skills, but because he's a well known professor. Meany professors prefer to sit in their dark office working on some research project, not teach. And let's face it, to teach someone that never programmed before the basic of programing doesn't require a professor. I could do it!

 

Another problem I've always had with school is that it's too theoretic. Theory is important, but you need to see how things work in real life as well. Therefore schools should work closely with businesses. Sadly most schools do not, and it's a real handicap for the students when they finish their studies and are to start working.

 

That was quite a rant! Hope you find some of useful

[Strong Bob]

I think Slaughter pretty much stated my exact opinion on schooling.

 

Here's a quote my father told me.

 

"You'll find teachers anywhere you look. But educators are more rare than gold."

[Slaughter]

I think Slaughter pretty much stated my exact opinion on schooling.

 

Here's a quote my father told me.

 

"You'll find teachers anywhere you look. But educators are more rare than gold."

Well said! Your father is a wise man! Think I have to update my signature with a "Strong Bob's father quote"

[Accounting Troll]

Thinking back to my schooldays, I received very little encouragement from my teachers. Most of them didn't care how well or badly you were doing as long as you were quiet and didn't cause any trouble or ask any difficult questions. I consider myself fortunate in that my parents encouraged me to read at a very early age.

[Slaughter]

I consider myself fortunate in that my parents encouraged me to read at a very early age.

Amen to that! My mother read The Hobbit for my brother and me at an early age. After that I've been a steady reader. She saved me from the bull that I had to read at school.

[Strong Bob]

Well said! Your father is a wise man! Think I have to update my signature with a "Strong Bob's father quote"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't go that far. He said it when he was drunk. :lol:

 

As for reading at an early age...

 

My mother read to me while she was still pregnant with me. All my life I loved reading so much, that when I was young whenever I did something wrong my parents would punish me by taking my books away. They occasionally searched my bed to see if I was hiding reading material in the pillows. (No lie!) At night, I'd skip out on sleeping just to blitz through a few Garfield books. >_<

 

As a result, I had a college reading level in the fourth grade. Never failed a single spelling test in my life.

[Ivory]

your rant was most insight full slaughter. i thin its importnt to rememebr we are all in different parts of the world, but the ideals behind much of mainstream standard education is the same.

 

selection and teacher trainning is also to beame, those with the best grades get on the courses, but personality is second to this...in my oppinion VERY WRONG!

 

a university professor at Harvard once said ' university would be perfect place, if it wasnt for the students.' --- this is insane. BUT the point is many uni professors dont want to teach, they want to research and study and see undergraduates mas an anoying side line.

 

teachers shoulld be made to re-train after 5years. Most of todays teachers have been around since the ARK (ok, slight exaggeration but...) they need o learn new skills, and refresh old memories!!

 

You guys are SOOO helpul, im loving this, your really helping me.

 

ok, lets focus on reaqding this sounds like a popular topic emerging. tell me specifically about your language and reading experiences durring your time at school!

[Bomb Bloke]

It took me a long time to learn to read. I was actually qutie a slow student in my young days.

 

My arguement was this - why bother, if I could hire a receptionist to do it for me?

 

I did, however, learn to read, and now days I find that, if I peer over someone's shoulder, I can read the pages twice each before they are ready to turn over.

 

When it came to handwriting, I remember the one and only time I ever got a 'A' in that class. I'd actually snuck out a ruler, and used that to get the lines straight.

 

Still in early primary school, they taught us how to write. Why bother, said I. I can already read, and print legible text. Why learn another style? Well, they made me write anyways, so now I can write.

 

I was correct there, though - these days, no one I know actually writes. They all print. And they all have a begger of a time reading writing as well. Thus I only write if I want to get stuff down on paper fast.

 

These days my reading and writing skills are transferred into computing. I can type at a speed comparable to my talking speed, and I read through a LOT of forum text. Being able to read and write at speed is great for programing. Those would be about the first skills I'd retrain if I happened to lose half my brain or something.

[Ivory]

interesting popint...so are the "old" techniques of learning to read and write outdated or do we nee to be able to read and hand write neatly?? no one i know does theswe days, not even lecturers!

[Strong Bob]

My handwriting is some of the worst on this planet. Seriously, this is why I resort to E-mail and not paper mail. My writing is harder to decipher than Mayan Heiroglyphics drawn by a 3 year old.

[Ivory]

is there not something...genuine and possibly even romantic (in notion) about a hand wriiten letter??

[Slaughter]

is there not something...genuine and possibly even romantic (in notion) about a hand wriiten letter??

For one of the sexes I guess there is . Seriously though, a handwritten letter is the most personal and pleasant sort of letter you can get. It shows that the person have put more work and passion into writing you a letter than just opening Outlook. Problem is that I'm too lazy to do that, and I think that's a pretty general thing. But if I were to ever write a love letter (not likely) I would write it by hand.

[Ivory]

slaughter, there is hope for you yet! It is more personal, and sincere in my oppinon. So inorder to do that we need english leasons at school dont we? literacy, and handwritting is important...? so if you agree that it is important, maybe the way it was taught to you was wrong?? do oyu remember how it was taught? what was the worse part?? any siggestions for imporve ment?

[bevan]

I remember education. It was that bit that woke us up at some crazy hour, shoved us into a bunch of misfits and generally took up a good part of 5 days a week. Now that i look back on how i acted in school i wish i had tryed to go good. I think that the teachers have a fair bit to do with how you learn, a teacher that gave me boring essays to do over the weekend was hated by me and a lot of the class but a teacher that crakced jokes or was laid back i learnt more from. Me and a friend set the sinks around the edge of the science class on fire (It was the other kids who poured the metho in the sinks though) and our teacher looked at us calmly and told us to put the curtains up. that was a good time. Think i lost the point somewhere. Yep im lost. And rambling

[Bomb Bloke]

I remember pre-tertiary english. We were told to use a word processor if possible, and to run the spell checker over it as well. Make of that what you will.

[FullAuto]

Teachers tend to stick to textbooks rather rigidly, and English is one of the few subjects where personal opinions and different views are accepted as valid. Still, plenty of English teachers make you work out of textbooks, and make you use York notes and stuff like that when studying plays or novels.

English was my favourite subject, and I was always good at it, but it didn't stop me nicking off at least one day every week.

Maths teaching should be optional in secondary school, and language tutoring should be vastly improved. And could someone tell me why Geography is just colouring in from ages 10-13? Before and after that, you learn stuff, but during those two years it's like a subdivision of Art.

[Ivory]

full auto cant say i agree with your maths statement....if i had had the choice iwouldnt of taken maths i was ...PANTS at it, but i use it all the time now!!!

 

Geography will always b a mistery to me! I gave it up as soon as i could...tho i enjoyed looking at italy....mmmm....maybe it was just the colouring in i likes!

 

my english teamer always liked us to have outr own oppinons...tho i got a rude shock when we had another teacher cover us for the lesson and he only allowed one view...his own!

 

ok, so what qualioties should GOOD teachers have???

[Accounting Troll]

I tended to do better in subjects that I found interesting, so I would say that the ability to get the pupils to take an interest in the subject is pretty important for a teacher.

 

An ability to maintain discipline is also important. When I was at school, Computer Studies was optional and it was regarded as an easy choice for the sort of pupils who were foolish enough to think that all education was a waste of time and they were looking forward to being 16 so they could drop out of school. My Computer Studies teacher was not very good at maintaining discipline, so they tended to disrupt the lessons.

 

With regard to maths, it isn't just accountants who need to be good at maths to do their jobs. Besides, you need to have reasonable maths skills to keep control of your personal finances. I know that calculators have taken the hard work out of mathematics, but I think it is still important to understand the process behind the calculation - I can intuitively tell when the answer on a calculator screen is wrong. Also you need a certain knowledge of mathematics to be able to correctly pose the question to a calculator; if you know the value of two angles of a triangle, you can use a calculator to work out the third angle but only if you happen to know this fact.

 

I also think all love letters should be handwritten. There is a tactile pleasure in reading a handwritten letter and knowing that the object of your affection has also touched it.

[FullAuto]

Besides, you need to have reasonable maths skills to keep control of your personal finances

 

Well, ok, yes, but I learned all that before I was ten. Add, subtract multiply, divide and working out percentages are all elementary math. I'm talking about Pythagoras' theorem, sine, cosine etc. I have never ever used any of those in my daily life, and somehow I doubt I ever will. I was good at maths, but I hated it. If I'd had a choice, I wouldn't have chosen to do maths.